F-15c drag and weight

[pepin1234]

What I understand in your post... You need see a F-15 real pilot diploma to believe us that F-15 can't get the performance actuality get in our Sim with full payload.

 

Don't close this thread please. I will catch all the F-15 pilots doing the travel to the moon with the current F-15 flight model.

[GGTharos]

No we just need to be able to reproduce your test. What I understand from your post is that you have no idea what you're doing. If you did, it'd be pretty easy for you to tell us to replicate, or at least post a track.

[strikeeagle]

15 externals are 9G tanks. On my first ride, we pulled about 8 FWIW. Tanks were empty of course, but we still had gas in the CFT's.

[humptydumpty]

Hmmm hope this post does not go the wrong way or get locked.

[strikeeagle]

I think folks get wrapped around the axel too much w/immersion, but that's just me. I've always believed even real sims can't exactly duplicate how a airplane will fly.

[FSKRipper]

Why do you think this flight manual can help to get more than 25000m with full max payload with the current F-15 flight model and do all maneuvers with fuel tanks?

 

So do you think with more weight and drag you get more altitude? A 9Th year schoolboy know enough physics to know something is going wrong with the F-15 flight model.

 

Post a track, otherwise everything you said simply didn't happen.

[GGTharos]

You are correct, but there's no reason to fail modeling most of the basics.

 

The engine performance is fairly close to the charts for various altitudes and payloads going up to 50000' or 60000'; without further information there's no reason to believe that was demonstrated is in fact an issue.

 

I think folks get wrapped around the axel too much w/immersion, but that's just me. I've always believed even real sims can't exactly duplicate how a airplane will fly.

[GGTharos]

What a joke.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2597995&postcount=1

 

15000m not 25000m, and also at very low speed.

[Sweep]

You guys make me want to break out the 3 bag loadouts again.

[blkspade]

Umm, aren't the external stores currently modeled with too much drag? I just watched the Raytheon award video again, and the Eagles in there seem to be quite agile at pretty high altitude with tanks on.

[GGTharos]

The bags have been mostly fixed in terms of drag, IIRC.

 

Anyway, go here and plugin in page 350:

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/mcdonnelldouglas/f-15eagle/to-1f-15a-1-flight-manual-f-15a-b-c-d-aircraft-block-7-and-up.html

 

Clearly shows that an F-15 with the OLD engines has no problem going above 50000', full complement of missiles and a single centerline tank.

 

The GW indicates that a lot of fuel is used up, but that altitude won't drop too much because of the weight. The two wing tanks together add slightly less drag than the centerline tank.

[strikeeagle]

You are correct, but there's no reason to fail modeling most of the basics.

 

The engine performance is fairly close to the charts for various altitudes and payloads going up to 50000' or 60000'; without further information there's no reason to believe that was demonstrated is in fact an issue.

 

I agree. I'm not exactly sure what the other guys issue was. In the real jet, by the time they blast-off and climb to 10K, the bags are empty anyway.

Edited January 19, 2016 by strikeeagle

[SinusoidDelta]

I agree. I'm not exactly sure what the other guys issue was. In the real jet, by the time they blast-off and climb to 10K, the bags are empty anyway.

I'm assuming thats because they don't take off fully fueled?

[Angel101]

What I understand in your post... You need see a F-15 real pilot diploma to believe us that F-15 can't get the performance actuality get in our Sim with full payload.

 

Don't close this thread please. I will catch all the F-15 pilots doing the travel to the moon with the current F-15 flight model.

 

What I understand in your post... is that someone has said that is not possible and you trust that even the real manual says other thing.

 

What a joke....

 

And I´m going to tell you another joke, look:

 

 

How its posible that the Flanker can go up to 71800 fts (around 24 km) with full cargo of missiles? Also I have another screen at 75000 fts... and the GW. of Su27 are 65197 lbs facing the 58998 lbs of the F15 (data from mission editor) It´s impossible!!!!! :D

 

And I don´t care any real flight manual that you can bring. ;) even my daugther says: aba! ba! ba! = that´s not possible!

[strikeeagle]

I'm assuming thats because they don't take off fully fueled?

 

No, because the jet has 90,000lbs+ or something like that per hour in burner.

[SinusoidDelta]

Check the -220 Appendix B figure B4-2. Climbing to 10,000 ft doesn't use enough fuel to drain the externals, not even close. Unless I'm interpreting the chart wrong.

[pepin1234]

Angel101 good for you what you discover about the Su-27 flight model at high altitude. Then probably is a general bug.

 

Do you have a picture about the F-15 doing the same? Or maybe do you think this is a problem for the Su-27 only and the F-15 is good in the current model flight stage? Gould you please make the same test for the F-15?

Edited January 20, 2016 by pepin1234

[SinusoidDelta]

I have a feeling I'll regret posting this...

[GGTharos]

There's no bug. The charts very very clearly show a 62000lbs eagle can easily exceed 50000'.

 

47000' for a lighter eagle (what you're flying) is no problem.

 

There's no bug for the flanker, either ... since not only do you not have proof that there is a bug, but there is very solid proof to the contrary, this is why your thread was closed.

 

Angel101 good for you what you discover about the Su-27 flight model at high altitude. Then probably is a general bug.

 

Do you have a picture about the F-15 doing the same? Or maybe do you think this is a problem for the Su-27 only and the F-15 is good in the current model flight stage? Gould you please make the same test for the F-15?

[pepin1234]

We are not talking about 50000 Ft and we are not talking about the flight manual. Also actually in this threads someone is requesting for a clear explanation why the F-15 is capable to do almost all the pilot want to do. For example the picture above show our F-15 at 36000m.

 

So you tell me. You as a tester team are here for support the 36000m altitude capability?

 

I think is very clear that is something wrong with some capabilities nothing have to do with the real world physic.

[SinusoidDelta]

I knew I'd regret posting that but it speaks to your lack of knowledge regarding the F-15. I mean no disrespect by that. That is a screenshot of myself in game, the flight profile requires precision and is by no means easy. Attempt it yourself and see if you can duplicate it, please.

 

The F-15 IRL can achieve a maximum energy height of 141,000ft in a totally clean configuration with about 3,000lbs of fuel internally. It is not capable of this carrying any external stores.

 

Now that is energy height. Energy height cannot be 100% converted into altitude as energy needs to be used to initiate the zoom climb. Thus the streak eagle reached just over 100,000 feet. Past 65,000 feet you are following a purely ballistic trajectory. Like a bullet fired 55 degrees into the air. At the apex of the zoom you have little to no control authority, you are not flying, you are now descending along the ballistic path.

 

It is absolutely like real world physics, it could be used as a lesson in a physics textbook.

Edited January 20, 2016 by SinusoidDelta

[pepin1234]

No is not capable of that, this is ridiculous. In any case the F-15 is capable to get 36000m.

 

You and everybody here can make screenshots about this non sense capability. Are you talking about real life or you just talking about what you can do in the Sim actually?

 

Simulation is not take the game over the real life, just in case you lost the point we are not talking about what you can do in the Sim, but what you can simulate from the real life.

 

This is a simulator. I guess you know that...

Edited January 20, 2016 by pepin1234

[SinusoidDelta]

I am talking about real life. I have not missed the point. The figures I quoted are published in NASA documents. The streak eagle zoomed over 100,000 feet in real life. Guess what else zoomed over 100,000 feet? The Su-27! IN REAL LIFE.

 

I'm not going to entertain this type of argument any further. How you 'think' the jets should behave in DCS is incorrect. You need to accept that you are wrong and stop making baseless claims such as these.

[FSKRipper]

No is not capable of that, this is ridiculous. In any case the F-15 is capable to get 36000m.

 

You and everybody here can make screenshots about this non sense capability. Are you talking about real life or you just talking about what you can do in the Sim actually?

 

Simulation is not take the game over the real life, just in case you lost the point we are not talking about what you can do in the Sim, but what you can simulate from the real life.

 

This is a simulator. I guess you know that...

 

At least you have not brought us one evidence supporting your crude "This is all shit" theory. I asked kindly to show us a track since your first testimony in your "bug report" also proofed wrong.

 

If you can't or won't this is not more than trolling and I'm pretty sure moderators will see it similar.

[humptydumpty]

Well guys let's stop this because the thread is going in a wrong direction.

 

My question was based on LIFT WEIGHT DRAG THRUST principles because this is what I have learnt in my ground training which was years back. so I wanted to know why I was not getting any thing on the aircraft when my left landing gear was stuck. I expected weight to increase along with drag but a few members cleared up that for me as the weight has already been calculated and which is correct. It is the drag that should show the effect which was not the case , was informed that it is the CAS which kicked in hence I did not feel anything on the aircraft.

 

Every aircraft has a ceiling after which they loose performance. There are too many variables that would matter and only REAL Eagle / Flanker pilots can tell you that.

Edited January 20, 2016 by humptydumpty