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Deadman's cockpit base plans


Hansolo
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Fellow home cockpit builders, it is with great pleasure that we can present drawings based upon the dimensions of Deadman's A-10A trainer cockpit and assembly instructions same.

 

The design of the cockpit layout as done so that CNC is not necessary. All you need are some hand/electric tools which can be obtained at almost any tool shop; electric jigsaw, a circular saw, electric drilling machine as well as normal hand tool like hammer, screwdriver etc.

 

As already stated the drawings are based upon Deadman’s A-10A trainer cockpit. It’s build on a base of rigid beams on a plywood floor and that easily be modified to add a frame a unto which wheels can be attached for ease re-location of the pit.

 

One of the design features is that the skins can easily be removed which will give full side access to the internals of the pit from front to rear. This will be beneficial during re-wring or adding new components. Inside the pit are foot well as in the real A-10A/C and vertical pillars onto which your MIP can be attached.

 

The design is done so the outboard sections of right and left side console are hanging in free air, which should assist access to the wiring.

The canopy bow is held in place by the beams which are attached to the front and rear walls as well as the vertical pillars.

 

The assembly instructions are by no means an exhausting step-by-step but is meant as a guide for the less experienced builder. There are currently two pits done, one US based (MacFevre) and one EU based (mine) to check the availability of wood dimensions. The design is done so the modifications to material thickness will have small if no impact on the process as long as the drawings and instructions are followed.

 

The drawings and instructions are released under Common Creative - Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International.

 

Below show MacFevre's pit as his progress at this point is further than the one show in the assembly instructions. Thanks Mac for letting us use your pictures. Looking very good indeed sir !

 

Hope you find the release beneficial to your hobby and we hope to see a lot of A-10C pit buildings in the future.

 

Best wishes for a great pit building year 2016

 

Deadman & HMA

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Deadman's cockpit assembly instructions & drawings v. 2.0.pdf


Edited by Hansolo
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Nicely collated! I remember reading the earlier drafts of this when I was toying with doing an a-10 myself.

 

Couple (++) of wee points:

a) Is the layout the most efficient usage of the ply sheeting? I reckon you could squeeze parts 23,24, & 28 on to the same sheet of ply as parts 17 and 10 (and the canopy bow squeezed in elsewhere), saving a few quids-worth of plywood sheeting. The middle-most canopy bow could even be split in to two or three sections as it will be sandwiched between two others and glued to formed (another) laminate. Think like a sewing pattern's cutting guide, where bits are squeezed in to make the absolutely best usage of the expensive fabric.

 

b) It seems a wee bit... over-engineered. I've been using 18mm ply myself recently, and it is pretty solid stuff! I'm only using it for the loadbearing areas - the bulkheads (and even then, with cutouts) and small piece for the base of the seat. In turn, I've been using 34x34 pine for the structural longerons, and stripwood for the stringers, with no structural problems. In hindsight, I could probably have got away with 12mm ply for the bulkheads. One has to ask, "how much of the 'pit structure actually needs to be weight-bearing, and to what degree?"

 

For example, the seat will be the area that carries the weight of the pilot, both when seated and when climbing in. Considered the seat, via part 20, is mounted so as to spread this weight over no less that four mighty 2x8 beams (see picture) - is the usage of a large 18mm ply base then really necessary? Removal of those could reduce this to a 2-sheet build.

 

c) Use of offsets. It's a minor point, but I was able to work up the curves for the Spit from a table of offsets (taken from the real thing). Perhaps that might be a helpful way of describing the curve of the canopy bow, so it can be drawn directly upon the wood rather than printing out a pattern piece 1:1?

 

d) Simplifying the build. Again, a minor point; however I am curious as to why the floor piece 20 is rebated in to the beams rather than simply screwed directly to them? It could simplify the build, at a minor aesthetic cost.

 

e) Breakdown & Transport. (Seem also point b)There doesn't seem to be any provision for this, aside from the fitment of wheels. How heavy is the finished pit? Will it fit through a normal domestic door, or does it have to be built in situ?

 

That's just what leapt out at me so far...

699620957_deadmanpitforreference.thumb.jpg.652996ecb7de888a2195c970a84a60d8.jpg


Edited by Cripple
to inclue image

My *new* AV-8B sim-pit build thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3901589

 

The old Spitfire sim-pit build thread circa '16/17:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143452

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Hi Cripple

 

A) Well the 23,24 &28 are made of 12mm plywood whereas 17&20 is made out of 18mm. I think you mean 20 instead of 10 as 10 are made out of 45x195mm. The 12mm for 23&24 was chosen for flexibility as they will eventually needs to be bended into shape.

True, you could make the canopy bow out 4x12mm. You could also make only the front and back part of the canopy bow solid whereas the middle could be in two parts. There are several ways to skin a cat :-)

 

B) Might be that it can be made of less thickness. I haven't done any structural engineering calculation if that is what you are looking for. The current pit I have in my basement can support my weight (80kg) on one side canopy support beams made by 12mm plywood. Whether it would still do so with front and back cockpit wall made out of 12mm plywood I simply don't know.

 

C) As far as I understood the curve is made out of several different curves thus we though this was the easiest way to do it.

 

D) I am sorry English is not my native language but are you referring to the cutout in the beams? If so yes it could probably have been done in another way but then you would have ended up with the line dropping down at e.g. the foot wells. Also the consoles extend further aft than just the floor plate.

 

E) In my humble opinion if you want a pit with skin and canopy bow then I doubt it will ever fit through a door. Probably only the ejection seat would fit through a door. As soon as you put side console connected next to the ejection seat then it would be too wide. If you are looking for a set of plans that are done in sections to get I out of a normal door then Dimebug's plan are probably the way to go :-)

 

 

The assembly instruction was made as a guide to the less experienced builder. Hence just a guide any hardcore builder can make his/her own judgement on the best way to approach the project.

 

Cheers

Hans


Edited by Hansolo
Wrong dimensions on part 10
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Thanks to the team and to Deadman for making this information available and creating these plans. As these are based on Deadman's trainer - I think we now have a very accurate set of plans from which to build. Excellent work.

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Cripple It is nice of you to complement Hans on his instructions. I think you have not understood the design of the cockpit replica I will try and clarify it for you.

 

First there has never been any earlier draft of the plans published.

 

The original concept for the design was a replica (exact copy) of the A-10 Cockpit with out using CNC and the least expensive cost for materials. There are several other designs that are used for portable pits so there was no need to remake that style of cockpit. I all so wanted to get away from (MDF) Medium Density Fiberboard it has no structural value and it is very heavy. The design presented has been converted from aluminum to less expensive wood.

 

The weight of the cockpit shell in the design is 87 kilo approximately 192 pounds . This does not include MIP ,ACES II, left right counsel and center pedestal, any control heads, wiring, LCD s I can easily see a replica cockpit weighing in the 400 pound range 182 kilos but with options open to each builder it is impossible to say what the finished weight will be.

 

It is really not practical to move a complete replica pit in sections when all of the panel are wired IMHO it makes much more scene to trailer the cockpit if you visit cockpit fest in the U.S. Or in the E.U. You will see most cockpit on or in trailers. [ame]

[/ame]

A.

 

Parts 23,24 and,28 are cut from ½”-12 mm plywood,

Part 17 is from ¾”-18 mm

Part 10 is cut from 2” x 8” [45x195mm]

Perhaps you were thinking of part 20 that is all so cut from ¾”-18 mm.

 

As you can see there is no way to combine parts of different thickness on to one sheet of plywood.

 

The canopy bow has been laminated out of three complete bows for several reasons.

The bow has several curves in it to label each one for some one of perhaps moderate to no carpentry skills would be confusing. Where as having the template printed out at 100% scale would be quite easy for any one with limited skills to print past and cut around.

 

Less cuts equals less time cutting and less chance of error in cutting.

 

In my real training cockpit every one that gets in and out all ways put one hand on the canopy bow.

This means make it strong simple and secure or it will fall off in some one's hand.

 

B. the design and load bearing quality may not be obvious with out other parts of the cockpit installed.

The design is adequate for the pit.

 

Main Instrument Panel (MIP) vertical beams support both MIP and canopy bow. It all so reinforces the vertical and horizontal canopy bow supports.

 

D.

 

The floor line is established with recessing part 20 level with the floor joist top of part 7 &8 this is important when installing the center pedestal that houses the circuit breaker and TISEL panel. It all so gives the cockpit floor braces their lateral support and the mounting area for the left and right consoles.

So not a great idea just to slap it on top of the joist.

The spaces between parts 3&7 , parts 4&8 establish the space for the foot wells.

 

The 2x8 floor joist are used to economically create a space under the control stick for what ever type of mechanical support for the approximately 17 inch extension to simulate the real stick.

 

 

E. Add wheels if you want to move it.

Weight has been stated

No it will not fit through a door way if you want that get an AB style pit.

 

Your concerns and critique of the plans seam to be based on your not understanding the pit and the parts that will be fallowing. As all ways all views and comments are welcome as long as they are constructive and not considered arrogant or condensing.

 

 

 

Nicely collated! I remember reading the earlier drafts of this when I was toying with doing an a-10 myself.

 

Couple (++) of wee points:

a) Is the layout the most efficient usage of the ply sheeting? I reckon you could squeeze parts 23,24, & 28 on to the same sheet of ply as parts 17 and 10 (and the canopy bow squeezed in elsewhere), saving a few quids-worth of plywood sheeting. The middle-most canopy bow could even be split in to two or three sections as it will be sandwiched between two others and glued to formed (another) laminate. Think like a sewing pattern's cutting guide, where bits are squeezed in to make the absolutely best usage of the expensive fabric.

 

b) It seems a wee bit... over-engineered. I've been using 18mm ply myself recently, and it is pretty solid stuff! I'm only using it for the loadbearing areas - the bulkheads (and even then, with cutouts) and small piece for the base of the seat. In turn, I've been using 34x34 pine for the structural longerons, and stripwood for the stringers, with no structural problems. In hindsight, I could probably have got away with 12mm ply for the bulkheads. One has to ask, "how much of the 'pit structure actually needs to be weight-bearing, and to what degree?"

 

For example, the seat will be the area that carries the weight of the pilot, both when seated and when climbing in. Considered the seat, via part 20, is mounted so as to spread this weight over no less that four mighty 2x8 beams (see picture) - is the usage of a large 18mm ply base then really necessary? Removal of those could reduce this to a 2-sheet build.

 

c) Use of offsets. It's a minor point, but I was able to work up the curves for the Spit from a table of offsets (taken from the real thing). Perhaps that might be a helpful way of describing the curve of the canopy bow, so it can be drawn directly upon the wood rather than printing out a pattern piece 1:1?

 

d) Simplifying the build. Again, a minor point; however I am curious as to why the floor piece 20 is rebated in to the beams rather than simply screwed directly to them? It could simplify the build, at a minor aesthetic cost.

 

e) Breakdown & Transport. (Seem also point b)There doesn't seem to be any provision for this, aside from the fitment of wheels. How heavy is the finished pit? Will it fit through a normal domestic door, or does it have to be built in situ?

 

That's just what leapt out at me so far...

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/a-10c-warthog-supplies

CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.

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It was my honor and very much a privilege to have been an Alpha builder of this project. Thank you Deadman for allowing me to be a part of it.

 

Deadman's drawings are very professionally done and now with the instructions expertly written by Hans, should make it a fairly straight forward build without the need for a CNC or professional help. For someone like myself that lives in a remote area of the country without a CNC within hours of my house is a godsend.

 

Cripple, IMHO, it's engineering is right on target. Sure, you could make it out of thinner material I suppose, even cardboard, but it is very robust. When I climb in and out of it, like DM mentioned, I always seem to grab onto the canopy bow. I must say, it's not going anywhere. I may only weigh 145 pounds now, but when I started the build I was 230, and it had no qualms in supporting my weight. You also need to remember this is a meticulous design and reconstruction of the real trainer, so doubt they were thinking about LAN parties when created. ;)

 

Without the canopy bow on, (or seat installed,) it can still be moved easily moved by two people. Even through doorways. I built mine in the garage before moving it to it's final location in my basement. How it sits now is seen in the original post, and this is how it looked while building it and immediately before moving.

IMG_1969.thumb.jpg.7cfae610cb953da48dcf56905c4377f8.jpg

IMG_2001.thumb.jpg.5ee328ac30f871356e8a871c2179cf5d.jpg

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Buttons aren't toys! :smilewink:

 

My new Version 2 Pit: MacFevre A-10C SimPit V2

My first pit thread: A-10C Simulator Pit "The TARDIS."

Dzus Fastener tutorial, on the inexpensive side: DIY Dzus Fastener

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Thank you for the replies regarding the Deadman Build Instructions. Firstly, a couple of wee heads-up:

1) I am a native (UK) English speaker, and considered (without any false modesty) to be pretty damn good at it even amongst my peers. Therefore my apologies if anything I say (write) seems condescending or directly insulting. It is not mean to be so, and most likely a misunderstanding on your part. I am more than happy to clarify anything contentious.

2) Myself and "Deadman" have had an run-in on another thread last year. For some reason, despite the topic in discussion being whether one could operate controls blindfolded, he chose to suggest that one should only listen to the opinions of someone who had built two cockpits; then subsequently followed this up with a direct ad hominem attack when asked to clarify his statement.

 

Given the above crass and elitist 'two-pits-or-STFU' comment, and his perceived status within the building community, I freely admit that I am expecting more of Deadman (or anyone else who subscribes to this school of thought) than I would of Joe Nobody. In fact I would expect the quality of: planning, explanation, build, support, and indeed deportment to be a cut above the rest of us. Hence why I may be erroneously seen to be "nitpicking".

 

Anyway... onwards and upwards.

 

A) Maybe the pdf and/or the initial posts could be amending to clarify exactly who this 'pit is designed for, and limitations of said design. I may have misunderstood HMA's comment about hoping to see more builds, and seen this as a Volks-pit designed for consumption by the masses. It is not, and requires a significant amount of space for the pit - presumably on the ground floor and with access to a larger door for rolling on the trailer. That may be implicit or obvious to veterans of Viperpits or this Cockpitfest-thing, but I would suggest that we cannot assume that everyone will have that knowledge. Or indeed the space. I trust we are not wishing to discourage anyone thinking of building in their 3rd-floor flat or back-bedroom from starting one?

 

B) Similarly, if the design of this cockpit is dependant upon other elements (as covered in Deadman's post #6, point D), should this not be explained in either the document or the initial posts. For example, *if* it is important to recess the beams, the say so... and say exactly why. Otherwise, other's may also perceive that it is not necessary and risk buggering up their entire build. In other words, if this is one part of a bigger build, then you need to alert potential builders to the other parts of it.

 

C) My apologies, I could have sworn I saw a remarkably similar build on a different site when I was contemplating an A-10 myself last year.

 

D) Deadman, I am willing to take your word as to the accuracy of your(wooden) pit up to a point, although I would be interested to see the diagram that shows a 3/4" plate under the entire cockpit. I knew the 'hog was armoured, but...

 

E) A decision needs to be made as to exactly who the pit is designed for: novices or the more experienced. Currently I am reading that the justification for the 1:1 scale cockpit bow is for " some one of perhaps moderate to no carpentry skills", whilst at the same time suggesting this same individual makes the aforementioned recesses in 2x8" beams and makes 10-degree cuts with a circular saw - I would suggest those are far from trivial cuts, and would be daunting to anyone without experience using such a power tool. A mate of mine has built and plumbed a sizeable extension to his house, and I believe he would still balk at this.

 

F) That is if it has been specifically designed for specific novice builders at all. If this is simply one-man's personal take on the A-10 cockpit, then that should be made clear. Currently it is presented more like a How-To rather than a How-I-Did-it.

 

G) Deadman, I fear you misunderstand me when I talk about using a table of offsets: "Less (sic) cuts equals less time cutting and less chance of error in cutting." I am not actually suggesting one makes any more than one cut round the drawn curve. What I suggesting is that one gives the builder a table of offsets; they then lost this on to a grid of correct size, join the points with a best-fit curve, and cut round that (once). Lofting is not complicated, as most children learn how to measure and join-the-dots. It also costs one considerably less than £20. All the bulkheads and the instrument panel in my build were lofted directly on the plywood with nothing more complicated than a pencil, a rule, and a bendy bit of plastic (for the curves). I can happily try and demystify it for people as it may open up that "Black Art" to others, if anyone wishes.

 

H) I like how a scrap of offcut has been used for radiusing a curve. That's the sort of thing that makes it easier for people to build a 'pit. Thumbs Up!

 

I) I still fundamentally believe that Deadman's 'pit is over-engineered, thus increasing the cost and weight without much in way of justification (so far). His bald statements about these other parts and the use of canopy bow simply do not cut it for me. Wood is extremely strong in compression, and even one sheet of 3/4" ply cannot be snapped over one's knee. In fact, the point of failure of the canopy bow would most likely be where it joins to the lower fuselage, not the bow itself... ergo, the canopy bow itself is over-engineered. If one is using it to lever oneself out of the cockpit then it needs to support that weight (plus a reasonable safety margin) - any more is wasteful in terms of cost, weight, and complexity; and should not be copied blindly.

 

Don't believe me? How about if I said I pull myself out of my cockpit via a strip of 45mm x 5mm (1.5" x ~1/4") of stripwood? (see pic) That's what the cockpit side-rail is made of, but because it supported every 6" by a skinny rib of 3/4" ply it takes enough of my weight. The rest of my weight? Well, the left hand is on the 34x34mm spruce longeron, while my feet push me up from the frame 7 bulkhead - which is a piece of 3/4" ply... end on. QED.

 

J)"Your concerns and critique of the plans seam to be based on your not understanding the pit and the parts that will be fallowing. As all ways all views and comments are welcome as long as they are constructive and not considered arrogant or condensing." (as written)

 

I can only assume that English is not your first language either, Deadman. This is why I have cut you a considerable amount of slack in the past. As I mentioned above, there may be misunderstanding due to a lack of clarity, rather than my simply not understanding. Seeing as you chose to bring it up, let me also make myself explicitly clear here: a desire for comments not to be arrogant nor condescending (as I believe you meant to say) cuts both ways. What is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander, and neither one's post count nor one's perceived status gives one licence to act otherwise. In other words, all comments are welcome in an open forum - so long as they are all delivered in a manner befitting polite discussion. I trust that is clear enough for all parties?

1496234572_spitfireskinnyframe.thumb.JPG.7513d485ce5a158f0b02026087ea6e4a.JPG

  • Like 1

My *new* AV-8B sim-pit build thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3901589

 

The old Spitfire sim-pit build thread circa '16/17:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143452

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Thank You very much Deadman, HMA and MacF + any one else I forget. Great work. I will definitely use the drawings. Keep up the great work for the community.


Edited by hakjar

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_____________Semper paratus, In hoc signo vinces________________

 

PC: Intel i7-8700K (4.9 GHz), Aorus Ultra Gaming Z370 MB, Gigabyte RTX 3080, 32 GB DDR3 (3,2 GHz), Samsung EVO 860 M.2 500 GB SSD + Samsung 960 M.2 250 GB SSD Gaming: Virpil T-50 CM2, TM WH Throttle, Crosswind pedals, HP Reverb

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Side consoles and the center pedestal plans are going to be cut from 6061 aluminum and offered as kits for the home builders to assemble.The MIP design is being review for structural load bearing capabilities.I have no idea what you mean by open ended as of this point the center pedestal and side console plans will not be released for free.


Edited by Deadman

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/a-10c-warthog-supplies

CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.

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I'm really impressed with your contribution to the community, Hans & DM. Forgive me if I leave someone else out.

Finally, a pit that can be built just like the real thing but using wood instead of metal. What easier can it be? I really love the canopy bow and would very much like to see a complete cockpit using these plans.

Now I wonder if I can stuff in my side consoles and MIP made with Dimebug's plans. I think I'll do a 3D model of these two sets of plans (DM & DB) and see how much they intersect. Just to figure out how compatible they are...

My rig specs:

Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz // Corsair 16GB DDR3 // MoBo Asus Z87K // HDD 1TB 7200RPM // eVGA Nvidia GTX 760GT 2GB DDR5 // LG 3D 47" 1920x1080 // Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS // Saitek Combat Pro Pedals // Thrustmaster MFD Cougar pack // PS3 Eye + FTNOIR

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Why so much silence or are there really too few guys building A-10 cockpits?

My rig specs:

Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz // Corsair 16GB DDR3 // MoBo Asus Z87K // HDD 1TB 7200RPM // eVGA Nvidia GTX 760GT 2GB DDR5 // LG 3D 47" 1920x1080 // Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS // Saitek Combat Pro Pedals // Thrustmaster MFD Cougar pack // PS3 Eye + FTNOIR

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In order from most to less accurate, we have these set of plans so far:

 

Deadman's

Dimebug's

Flim's

 

Just my two cents...

My rig specs:

Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz // Corsair 16GB DDR3 // MoBo Asus Z87K // HDD 1TB 7200RPM // eVGA Nvidia GTX 760GT 2GB DDR5 // LG 3D 47" 1920x1080 // Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS // Saitek Combat Pro Pedals // Thrustmaster MFD Cougar pack // PS3 Eye + FTNOIR

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7rooper, I currently have the side consoles I made for my first pit in this one. (Until the better ones come along. ;) ) Those were made from Dimbug's plans. They fit fine, but I'm having to support them on the outside front and aft corners as I didn't want them permanently attached because hopefully they won't be there for long.

 

Biggest reason for getting rid of them, however, is Dimbug's consoles don't allow enough room on the underside for real boxes, or even panels with all the electronics needed to support the individual panel attached to that panel. If you're planning on a simple panel with wiring to a main area or spread out, then they would probably be ok.

Buttons aren't toys! :smilewink:

 

My new Version 2 Pit: MacFevre A-10C SimPit V2

My first pit thread: A-10C Simulator Pit "The TARDIS."

Dzus Fastener tutorial, on the inexpensive side: DIY Dzus Fastener

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