Upcoming RDI Radar changes

[GGTharos]

The RWR can probably scan more frequencies than the radar, but it won't have the directional accuracy that the radar has in most cases, IMHO - speaking of 90's RWRs.

[Bacab]

The RWR can probably scan more frequencies than the radar, but it won't have the directional accuracy that the radar has in most cases, IMHO - speaking of 90's RWRs.

Moreover the RWR is mostly intended as a protection device, not as a primary sensor, so the choice may have been made to not over complicate its design with other functions. But that's a personal thought that may be proven wrong.

[GGTharos]

Things sort of changed when we got into the Raptor generation, where the RWR (more like ISR now) can generate weapon-launch quality data.

[Azrayen]

OK. If SNIFF raison d'être is "only" azimuth accuracy, then it seems a rich answer for a seldom-encountered issue.

Probably no such thing on the "poor" RDI :D

 

Agreed with Tharos about recent gens. Rafale is also capable of launching (a MICA EM or IR) in LOAL on a L16-received or Spectra-generated track. :)

[GGTharos]

Like I said, the actual operation and features are hidden in -34 supplement that we won't be getting our hands on. Unlike the RWR, the radar can track emissions in SNIFF mode in a way that you can interact with. It's possible that it can range them, too. Who knows :)

[Bacab]

OK. If SNIFF raison d'être is "only" azimuth accuracy, then it seems a rich answer for a seldom-encountered issue.

Probably no such thing on the "poor" RDI :D

 

Agreed with Tharos about recent gens. Rafale is also capable of launching (a MICA EM or IR) in LOAL on a L16-received or Spectra-generated track. :)

I'm guessing the radar also pack more processing power than the RWR so you might get more informations from it than from the RWR.

 

PS: the radar antenna also provide elevation data so it does have an added value relatively to the RWR.

[jojo]

As far as RDI is concerned, we are totally in pure fiction until we find a valuable source.

[OldE24]

ECM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5T1vPmA-l4

 

Radar Jamming: "Defensive Electronic Countermeasures" May 1962 US Navy Training Film

 

this was posted on hoggit the other day.

[xKBLx_Viper_6354]

That was a good video to watch :smartass: It would be nice to know what tricks radar and the counter measures against it use now.

[Rlaxoxo]

Holy s* ... compared to that vide ECM in DCS Is a joke

 

It's only simulated the bruteforce method and this video is so old I can only imagine what they came up with these days

[zaelu]

I can only imagine what they came up with these days

 

I think because all is very very very classified it is also very very sensitive. Meaning even a "made up" simulation of current ECM methods would make some "entities" nervous.

 

Also... We "can imagine" everything in that movie is completely obsolete and everybody moved to digital and lower power. So signals could be harder to detect and encrypted (so your ECM false responses are... false). With an integrated network, a defense system could be these days impenetrable otherwise than taking the subway or brute force.

[jaguara5]

I have a question about the RDO mode, which will force the radar to soft lock (PID) the first priority target.

From my observations so far , this works only once per each mode selection and only if the mode is enabled with a target in the radar scope. So if I have an RDO locked target at 12' , and I notch to the side to brake his radar lock, when I turn towards the target with RDO still enabled, there is no auto radar lock and I have to move the TDC over the contact and lock it manually, which costs several critical seconds. Or I have to deselect the mode and select it back when the contact is on the radar screen. Enabling the mode without a radar contact (in the example above, while still performing the return turn towards the target after the notch) also doesn't provide a auto lock as soon as the contact is detected by the radar. The other alternative of course is to enable again / for the first time the RDO mode only after I have the radar contact , but this is not very user friendly, since the RDO button is not a HOTAS button (no cheating by maping this to my joystick). In the example, I have to move the mouse - a real pilot his left hand - over the respective PCA button while still performing the back to the target turn - mostly a high g 90 degr. turn at low altitude - it can be dangerous.

Is this supposed to be so?

And also, what are the locking criteria, the radar will lock the closest contact or the contact with the biggest closure speed?

Secont question, the target intercept line starts to blink when moving to the edge of the radar scan cone. My understanding is that is a caution to the pilot that radar lock can be lost, right?

And at which degress of azimuth starts the blinking?

Edited November 12, 2016 by jaguara5

[ZHeN]

I have a question about the RDO mode, which will force the radar to soft lock (PID) the first priority target.

From my observations so far , this works only once per each mode selection and only if the mode is enabled with a target in the radar scope. So if I have an RDO locked target at 12' , and I notch to the side to brake his radar lock, when I turn towards the target with RDO still enabled, there is no auto radar lock and I have to move the TDC over the contact and lock it manually, which costs several critical seconds. Or I have to deselect the mode and select it back when the contact is on the radar screen. Enabling the mode without a radar contact (in the example above, while still performing the return turn towards the target after the notch) also doesn't provide a auto lock as soon as the contact is detected by the radar. The other alternative of course is to enable again / for the first time the RDO mode only after I have the radar contact , but this is not very user friendly, since the RDO button is not a HOTAS button (no cheating by maping this to my joystick). In the example, I have to move the mouse - a real pilot his left hand - over the respective PCA button while still performing the back to the target turn - mostly a high g 90 degr. turn at low altitude - it can be dangerous.

+ this question

 

is this how RDO's supposed to work ? cause there's no sense in it then

when my radar screen is blank, and my RDO is ON, it won't lock a contact automatically when it pops up on screen ...

 

 

and second question about special modes (CCM):

why are they always locking in STT ? sometimes spoil things for me

[jojo]

Close Combat Mode is for dogfight with high maneuvering targets. So TWS won't be able to track the target.

 

Even with the Super 530D, if you lock at 10Nm, with head on closing speed, it's time to shoot.

[ZHeN]

okay, clear

 

RDO ?

[Frostie]

Somethings are not clear for me regarding PRF in the Mirage.

 

The manual states that Interleave (ENT) is Medium PRF, while the others High and Low are relevant surely Interleave is alternating between two PRFs eg. High and Low in this case and not using Medium at all or is it alternating between High/Medium like with FC aircraft and also in the same way that Interleave is stated High/Med in the F-15C 34-1-1 manual.

 

Plus I've noticed that there is no detection range difference on a tail chase between HFR (Hi), ENT (Int) and BFR (Low). High PRFs are used for Head on contacts but poor at tail on, this is represented well with FC aircraft where there is huge detection difference between Medium and High, Medium being the optimal choice also stated in the 34-1-1 manual.

But taking into account the relative performance in DCS of the APG-63 compared with the RDI in the head on aspect (about 75% power of the APG) with the Mirage it seems that using High against tail on gives a range similar to what you'd expect from 75% of the APG-63 in Medium and the High PRF detection in both the RDI and APG against tail on is quite close. So with this in mind surely tail on High PRF is over performing with the RDI.

 

Also to add to this, in the Head on aspect there is no detection range difference between High and Interleave inside the max usable range of ENT at 45nm. For example HFR sees an F-15 at 40nm but so does ENT. Now i'm in the opinion that this is the correct modelling. ILV alternates between two PRFs between bar sweeps so there should be no reduction in range as far as I can figure. But FC has a 25% reduction in ILV over High PRF I don't know why it is like this but surely some reason behind it.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Frostie

[GGTharos]

It's just because FC3 is generic, IMHO. Interleave just gives you fewer target updates at the extreme ranges of a PRF, but should not have a big difference in detection ranges IMHO.

 

It's the special modes that do 'magic' with those PRFs.

[Frostie]

It's just because FC3 is generic, IMHO. Interleave just gives you fewer target updates at the extreme ranges of a PRF, but should not have a big difference in detection ranges IMHO.

 

It's the special modes that do 'magic' with those PRFs.

 

That's what I thought.

But i'm interested to hear what you think about tail on targets being seen at the same ranges in both High and Low PRFs with the RDI and also is ENT (Interleave) Medium, Hi/med or Hi/low in your opinion?

[GGTharos]

I do have the mirage but I haven't examined this myself; with that said, my opinion:

 

I don't know if the RDI uses LPRF, MPRF or both and which PRFs are actually used in ENT - but certainly seeing tail-on contacts at the same range with H/M/LPRF doesn't seem correct. M/LPRF should offer better performance against tail-on targets in all situations.

[Azrayen]

ENT mixes HFR and BFR.

[SilentSierra]

I was flying the M2000C this weekend and these VTB/HDD switches looks to be not implemented yet.

 

When I put mouse over shows the label. The manual don't explain what these side buttons does.

 

The marker brightness, backlight brightness, contrast and brightness looks not implemented too.

 

Any plans to implement? Or am I doing something wrong?

 

[jojo]

There is one which works, on the left side "N" button allows you to choose the radar cursor position reference.

By default 00 is your own plane, but you can select any waypoint from your PCN.

 

So if you put a waypoint on Bull's eye you can use Bull's eye call from AWACS.

[myHelljumper]

The other parameters are used to setup a DO : https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3086437&postcount=7

This is not implemented or planed at the moment.

 

I'm sure the brightness knobs will be functional at some point ;).

[SilentSierra]

This module have some real pilot as subject matter expert? The M2000C looks too basic to be a 4th generation aircraft. I read it's a competitor of F-16, but it's too inferior. The F-16 have much more roles, sensors, weapons, radar features, etc.

[myHelljumper]

This module have some real pilot as subject matter expert? The M2000C looks too basic to be a 4th generation aircraft. I read it's a competitor of F-16, but it's too inferior. The F-16 have much more roles, sensors, weapons, radar features, etc.

 

Which F16 are you talking about ? F-16A ? F-16C block 52 ? There are big differences.

There are also big differences between the 2000C, 2000D, 2000N, 2000-5, 2000-9...

 

At my squadron we have some people that worked with 2000C and they are happy with it.

A 2000C RDM manual is also available (in french) online.

 

From all those informations I can say the while some functions are to be implemented, and others won't be, the DCS M2000C is a very good representation of the Mirage 2000C RDI system wise :).