Can F-14B supercruise?

[dekiplav]

I've heard stories that the F-14B armed with 2xAim-54, 2xAim-7, 2xAim-9 and fuel tanks can use its afterburner to break the sound barrier and get to a certain mach number, then go back to full mil power and as long as the pilot flies straight and level, the F-14B will stay at that speed. Can anyone share their thoughts on this?

[nogano00]

The F-14b/d could super cruise, but what configuration under, I don't really know.

[Grundar]

Well The F-21, which was an upgraded F-14 and apparently quite the powerhouse in design, was to be equipped with upgraded F110 engines and would supercruise at around Mach 1.3 with a load, I believe, though I cannot link to a source for this and may be something I just misunderstood when reading about it's design.

 

As for actual operational F-14's. The F-14A+ could supercruise, but in what configuration I am unsure, it would have to be clean to a light load of A-A missiles I assume.

 

This was thanks to the introduction of the F110 engines over the old TW's. Presumeably this meant that F-14B's and D's could supercruise as well. Supercruise was at Mach 1.05.

 

Any supercruising would probably be done without AIM-54's on the craft (lots of weight and drag) and possibly maybe just some underbelly Sparrows as IIRC glove mounted AIM-9's produced a lot of drag. Of course I could be completely wrong on this, I have no inside information or any rabbit out of the hat links to support it.

 

Technically you will get arguments that the only aircraft that could/can "truly" supercruise is the F22.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Grundar
Defining supercruise

[uhntissbaby111]

Technically you will get arguments that the only aircraft that could/can "truly" supercruise is the F22.

 

I know it's a commercial aircraft, but let's not forget Concorde

[Alicatt]

I know it's a commercial aircraft, but let's not forget Concorde

 

Nor the EE Lightning and before that the P1 the first aircraft to supercruise in the 1950s, the P1 didn't have afterburner and could exceed Mach 1 and was limited to Mach 1.51 Officially the P1 WG760 broke the sound barrier on 4 August 1954,on it's third flight but later examination of the flight data she broke Mach1 on her maiden flight.

 

Edit:

On 25 November 1958, the P.1B became the first British aircraft to fly at Mach 2.[1] The prototypes were powered by un-reheated Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire turbojets as the selected Rolls-Royce Avon engines, which would power subsequent production aircraft, had fallen behind schedule due to their own development issues

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning

Edited March 1, 2016 by Alicatt
Link and quote for more info

[bullettweak]

Well The F-21, which was an upgraded F-14 and apparently quite the powerhouse in design, was to be equipped with upgraded F110 engines and would supercruise at around Mach 1.3 with a load, I believe, though I cannot link to a source for this and may be something I just misunderstood when reading about it's design.

 

As for actual operational F-14's. The F-14A+ could supercruise, but in what configuration I am unsure, it would have to be clean to a light load of A-A missiles I assume.

 

This was thanks to the introduction of the F110 engines over the old TW's. Presumeably this meant that F-14B's and D's could supercruise as well. Supercruise was at Mach 1.05.

 

Any supercruising would probably be done without AIM-54's on the craft (lots of weight and drag) and possibly maybe just some underbelly Sparrows as IIRC glove mounted AIM-9's produced a lot of drag. Of course I could be completely wrong on this, I have no inside information or any rabbit out of the hat links to support it.

 

Technically you will get arguments that the only aircraft that could/can "truly" supercruise is the F22.

 

Just to add my two cents in, I believe the f-21 not only could super cruise, but it had thrust vector capability also.

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

Well The F-21, which was an upgraded F-14...

 

I am sorry sir, the F-21 was not an F-14. :music_whistling:

 

 

:thumbup:

[SkateZilla]

I'm not sure, but I believe the Military definition of SuperCruise, calls for the Aircraft to reach and sustain Supersonic flight w/o the use of reheat.

[RoflSeal]

I'm not sure, but I believe the Military definition of SuperCruise, calls for the Aircraft to reach and sustain Supersonic flight w/o the use of reheat.

 

Well that's not right since the Blackbird cruised with Reheat on.

 

Supercruise is Lockheed Martin defnition that is constantly changed so only F-22 can "supercruise"

[SkateZilla]

Well that's not right since the Blackbird cruised with Reheat on.

 

Supercruise is Lockheed Martin defnition that is constantly changed so only F-22 can "supercruise"

 

Term doesnt change meaning,

 

SR-71, XB70, A12 etc were designed to Cruise w/ Reheat on.

However both can sustain Mach2.0 w/o reheat.

 

SR-71 flew at an altitude that limited fuelburn even in afterburner.

 

Lockheed uses the term differently, which I'd label as "Tactical Supercruise"

[Grundar]

I am sorry sir, the F-21 was not an F-14. :music_whistling:

 

 

:thumbup:

 

:D

 

Yes the F-21a Aggressor aka Kfir!

 

Sadly the Grumman F-21 was nothing more than design ideas and as bullettweak stated was to have thrust vectoring as well as being able to supercruise. All things that ended up in the F22 strangely enough!

[dekiplav]

About "F-21" reference :), I guess everybody is referring to the "Attack Super Tomcat-21" right? I mean the plane on the pic?

 

 

 

 

[turkeydriver]

The AST-21 was a tomcat project, ASF-14, Tomcat-21 were all advanced tomcats that weren't built but yes the F-21 designation was used for the Adversary Kfir. The Tomcat 21 had that number just to denote that it was intended as a 21st century concept. It might have had an F-25 designation if not F-14E or F-14F.

I just read a bit of info that when the aircraft is juat past the sound barrier not the entire airframe is supersonic, so its not efficient. Its more efficient that .99 Mach, but SuperCRUISE, the idea that you can economically cruise about supersonic speed doesn't really happen until above Mach 1.3 depending on the airframe. So this would explain why the F-14/15/16 are NOT considered supercruise capable although in specific configurations they can maintain above Mach speed without afterburner.

Edited March 9, 2016 by turkeydriver

[Sideswipe]

I wish I could visit the alternate universe where the AST-21 was produced...

[jared9191]

Can you imagine the U.S. Navy with 500 Super Tomcat's right now instead of Rhinos...

 

More range, payload, and capability.

 

Granted the costs of the Tomcat were a lot higher, and that's probably a big reason why the U.S. Navy went with the safer option.

[SkateZilla]

Cost was the Reason the Tomcat was retired and replaced.

[addde]

Cost was the Reason the Tomcat was retired and replaced.

 

I believe there was someone with quite a bit of political sway that for some reason were just against this beast of a plane/grumman in general. One might say that he/she was abit of a "Dick" :music_whistling:

Edited March 8, 2016 by addde

[Sweep]

I believe there were someone with quite a bit of political sway that for some reason were just against this beast of a plane/grumman in general. One might say that he/she was abit of a "Dick" :music_whistling:

 

I see what you did there. :)

[SkateZilla]

Not going into politics, but Chaney was against Grumman the entire way.

[addde]

I see what you did there. :)

 

Whaaaaaat :shifty: