JazonXD Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I'm sure there must be a thread out there but... why is the performance of the AIM-7 so horrible in DCS? You can be easily firing at someone 4 miles and the missile would go stupid the moment it leaves the rails (or hardpoints rather). Also, its max speed seems to be seriously capped. Why is this? What's the best strategy to using the AIM-7s as of now? Thanks. AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's not great, but not as bad as you describe. Posting tracks would be helpful. Missiles going stupid right off the rail could be that you're firing in TWS mode. Best strategy depends on altitude, aspect, closure rate etc, but you want to fire between RTR and RMIN (the middle and lower missile range hash marks on the right of your HUD when you have a lock). I generally fire below 10-12 miles head on, below 3-4 miles if they are running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazonXD Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 It's not great, but not as bad as you describe. Posting tracks would be helpful. Missiles going stupid right off the rail could be that you're firing in TWS mode. Best strategy depends on altitude, aspect, closure rate etc, but you want to fire between RTR and RMIN (the middle and lower missile range hash marks on the right of your HUD when you have a lock). I generally fire below 10-12 miles head on, below 3-4 miles if they are running. I could never afford to fire at even 9 miles unless i want them to go defensive; it is quite mad indeed however. It's not possible that I fired in TWS because it doesn't even let you select and fire the 7s when you're in TWS. I'll see if I can post some tracks but the missile going stupid right after it leaves the rail is pretty common sight. AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Rage* Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 SARH missiles frequently go stupid in game. Chaff and ground clutter/notching is far too effective. And predictable. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieGhost789 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 ~snip It's not possible that I fired in TWS because it doesn't even let you select and fire the 7s when you're in TWS. Actually, you can. The F-15 doesn't prevent you from selecting and firing an AIM-7 if you're in TWS, nor does it prevent you from selecting TWS with an AIM-7 selected. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazonXD Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Actually, you can. The F-15 doesn't prevent you from selecting and firing an AIM-7 if you're in TWS, nor does it prevent you from selecting TWS with an AIM-7 selected. But you won't get the proper AIM 7 HUD indication i'm pretty sure... you'll just get a blank hud as if you didn't have weapons selected IIRC... AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes you will. Only thing you won't get is stt lock. No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchesterdelta1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes you will. Only thing you won't get is stt lock. No you will not. If the AIM-7 in TWS is selected you won't get a solid circle and you can not see the aspect of the target related to that circle. You will probably be able to fire it. But never tried cause it won't guide anyway. If you switch back to STT it will show a big solid circle. A AIM-120 in TWS or STT will show a circle with gaps in between. He is correct. A target locked in TWS while AIM-7 is selected will show if you have no weapon selected in the HUD. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svend_Dellepude Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 No you will not. If the AIM-7 in TWS is selected you won't get a solid circle and you can not see the aspect of the target related to that circle. You will probably be able to fire it. But never tried cause it won't guide anyway. If you switch back to STT it will show a big solid circle. A AIM-120 in TWS or STT will show a circle with gaps in between. He is correct. A target locked in TWS while AIM-7 is selected will show if you have no weapon selected in the HUD. Correct! You can launch any missile at anytime, regardless. Just press pickle and off it flies! :pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinusoidDelta Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Back to the performance of the AIM-7, can someone comment on the rocket burn time? my understanding is that the motor is boost-sustain. 3 Seconds of boost and 12 second of sustain. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Depends on which source you read, but it's in the ballpark. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazonXD Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Back to the performance of the AIM-7, can someone comment on the rocket burn time? my understanding is that the motor is boost-sustain. 3 Seconds of boost and 12 second of sustain. Is this correct? I don't have the exact data (too lazy to look in missiles.lua) but yes, it's pretty long time. However, the top speed is severely capped. AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nWIng Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 aim7... compare with r27er, it's a good missile with lots of love... they must remove the seeker from r27er in order to save the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepin1234 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Aim-7 have an effective range in game against fighter of 18km,is ok. Now take a look to the real counterpart, the little R-27 version: The R-27R have an unexplainable shorter range in game. Actually the shorter R version have 37% less range than the larger ER version. IRL This is incorrect, lets see why. Actually in game the effective range against fighter for R-27 is 15km for the R, 25km for the ER. This mean R have 37% less range compared with his big brother ER. Now let's see the real manufacturer range difference: http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/527/ what you see there is a difference of only 17%. Why this is a real problem? The R-27 little brother R version have lower weight. So, we are forced carry all the time the ER version heaviest weight very bad for maneuverability, because the R version have become the worst Russian missile in game. Very weird right... Edited March 24, 2016 by pepin1234 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IASGATG Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) I feel like the record needs to be set straight on the AIM-7. It's effective range against a fighter Sea Level - Effective Range - 3-4nmi head to head, 2nmi tail chase - Explanation - The missile has a long burn time but low thrust and high drag. This means that the defending fighter can force the missile into an over-g situation where it cannot accelerate to obtain a higher g loading and thus is stuck at a lower turn rate. The long burn time helps with tail chase shots compared to an AIM-120 because of the longer sustained time at >M1 20kft - Effective Range - 4nnmi head to head, 2nmi tail chase - Explanation - Same reason as above. Despite lower drag and higher thrust at higher altitude, it barely makes a dent. Moreover the defender is able to maneuver in vertical which makes it easier to defeat the missile. 40kft - Effective Range - 7nmi head to head, 4nmi tail chase - Explanation - The higher altitude provides more effective range, but this is mostly out of the fact the defender isn't able to turn effectively. Anyone who tries to give ranges beyond this isn't firing them at players and is misleading you. Edited March 24, 2016 by IASGATG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Now let's see the real manufacturer range difference: http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/527/ what you see there is a difference of only 17%. ... and when we look at DLZ's from the pilot's manual we find the difference is 37%. What does this have to do with AIM-7 performance? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazonXD Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 I feel like the record needs to be set straight on the AIM-7. It's effective range against a fighter Sea Level - Effective Range - 3-4nmi head to head, 2nmi tail chase - Explanation - The missile has a long burn time but low thrust and high drag. This means that the defending fighter can force the missile into an over-g situation where it cannot accelerate to obtain a higher g loading and thus is stuck at a lower turn rate. The long burn time helps with tail chase shots compared to an AIM-120 because of the longer sustained time at >M1 20kft - Effective Range - 4nnmi head to head, 2nmi tail chase - Explanation - Same reason as above. Despite lower drag and higher thrust at higher altitude, it barely makes a dent. Moreover the defender is able to maneuver in vertical which makes it easier to defeat the missile. 40kft - Effective Range - 7nmi head to head, 4nmi tail chase - Explanation - The higher altitude provides more effective range, but this is mostly out of the fact the defender isn't able to turn effectively. Anyone who tries to give ranges beyond this isn't firing them at players and is misleading you. Yes. Sgat. Thank you. I've experienced lots of this but everyone still insists on such an exaggerated effective range. Sometimes if you are really really lucky you can stretch it out to like 8 or 9 nm while head on at maybe angles 20 but otherwise... NAHHH AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchesterdelta1 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 When flying Mach 1.2 and higher and firing at a maneuvering fighter from around 15kft / 20kft i noticed you can hit your target from around 8 to 10nmi effectively if the target does not force a over G situation. But that is the MAX you can hope for a kill shot. But if fired against a opponent that is not aware you shooting a AIM-7 and defends for AIM-120C you can hit them from around 12 to 14nmi in the same situation as above. Did it multiple times in one MP sortie. But that is more luck than wisdom. But if i want to be sure to get the kill with 1 or 2 missiles i shoot from the ranges IASGATG researched. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazonXD Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 When flying Mach 1.2 and higher and firing at a maneuvering fighter from around 15kft / 20kft i noticed you can hit your target from around 8 to 10nmi effectively if the target does not force a over G situation. But that is the MAX you can hope for a kill shot. But if fired against a opponent that is not aware you shooting a AIM-7 and defends for AIM-120C you can hit them from around 12 to 14nmi in the same situation as above. Did it multiple times in one MP sortie. But that is more luck than wisdom. But if i want to be sure to get the kill with 1 or 2 missiles i shoot from the ranges IASGATG researched. Hmm, I'm interested to know what's the difference between defending against 120 and the aim 7? Thanks. AMD 5600X -- Gigabyte RTX 3070 Vision -- 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 -- HP Reverb G2 -- Logitech 3D Extreme Pro -- Thrustmaster TWCS BRRRT! Car and aviation enthusiast, gun nut and computer nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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