pepin1234 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 I mean, I know this module is still in promotion. Do you think is right this single engine aircraft keep alive after hit by a missile. Some times I got kill by them after confirm a hit by my first missile and this BB still keep the engine/avionic like a brand new and get kill me :D. My advise, secure the M-2000 with a second missile. The RAZBAM M-2000 have titanium protecting the engine. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Davee Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 I mean, I know this module is still in promotion. Do you think is right this single engine aircraft keep alive after hit by a missile. Some times I got kill by them after confirm a hit by my first missile and this BB still keep the engine/avionic like a brand new and get kill me :D. My advise, secure the M-2000 with a second missile. The RAZBAM M-2000 have titanium protecting the engine. Same with F-15. DCS is having big changes. Damage model will be upgraded as part of the changes. Missiles also will be changed for effectiveness and much more. Hang in there and enjoy the ride. :) Cheers,
Ktulu2 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Same with F-15. Cheers, Absolutely not. Since the hydro failures as soon as the 15 gets hit (even by a bullet...) it looses all control surfaces. Seems like a 1-wing landing is not a good enough proof lol. But missile wise, I did survive manpads hits a bunch of times, which is plausible and can only remember one or two instances where a real air-air missile (not R60) did not remove my engines. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
Davee Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Absolutely not. Since the hydro failures as soon as the 15 gets hit (even by a bullet...) it looses all control surfaces. Seems like a 1-wing landing is not a good enough proof lol. But missile wise, I did survive manpads hits a bunch of times, which is plausible and can only remember one or two instances where a real air-air missile (not R60) did not remove my engines. Hi Ktulu2, On the shooting side at an F-15, I've completely removed a wing from the F-15 and it still flies and fights. This was 3 days ago in a gunso mission with me in the Mirage against an AI f-15. What I'm saying is that the damage model needs and is going to have a complete overhaul in DCS. It pales completely even against Cliffs of Dover for instance. Just a note here: there are two damage models - the one for the physical properties of the aircraft, and the visual graphics damage model. I think in some cases the physical damage model is ahead of the graphics model and vica versa. Not to mention ballistics calculations and energy transfer from the projectile to the aircraft components. I'm looking forward to it all coming together. :) Cheers, Cats . . .
Ktulu2 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 AIs use different damage models and flight models than players for cpu-loads questions. This explains the difference beetween our constatations. And beside, a 1-wing F-15 should be able to fly (although he shouldn't be able to pull too many G's, so no dogfights like it used to be possible). Personally, I don't really care about AIs being simplified as if you want a real fight, it's gonna be PvP, AIs are for training, but I can totally see why one would disagree on this. Pepin, can you precise if it was a mirage AI or if it was flown by someone? I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
Fab Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Hi Ktulu2, On the shooting side at an F-15, I've completely removed a wing from the F-15 and it still flies and fights. This was 3 days ago in a gunso mission with me in the Mirage against an AI f-15. What I'm saying is that the damage model needs and is going to have a complete overhaul in DCS. It pales completely even against Cliffs of Dover for instance. Just a note here: there are two damage models - the one for the physical properties of the aircraft, and the visual graphics damage model. I think in some cases the physical damage model is ahead of the graphics model and vica versa. Not to mention ballistics calculations and energy transfer from the projectile to the aircraft components. I'm looking forward to it all coming together. :) Cheers, Cats . . . The F-15 can fly with a wing blowen off [ame] [/ame] Intel Core i7-6700K Cpu 4.00 GHz OC 4.8 GHz Water Cooled|32 GB DDR4 ram OC| Nvidia RTX 2080Ti| TrustMaster Warthog|Saitek Battle Pro Pedals | Logitec G13| Oculus Rift S :joystick: I´m in for a ride, a VR ride:pilotfly: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBX_-Hml7_7s1dggit_vGpA?view_as=public
Aginor Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 It is a problem of the AI damage model, and it applies to all planes. As a player when hit by a missile the fight is over. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet
WinterH Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 In Mirage's case it is not AI. Rather a beta issue. Player controlled Mirage is "a bit" too resilient. I survived some funny stuff many times while flying it. I am sure it will get sorted. But let us cut Razbam some slack while they recuperate from that big earthquake recently. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
Aginor Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Ok, perhaps I was just unlucky then. I did survive some gun rounds basically unscathed, but I have never been hit by a SAM or A2A-missile and could continue the fight or even RTB. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet
pepin1234 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Posted April 20, 2016 It is a problem of the AI damage model, and it applies to all planes. As a player when hit by a missile the fight is over. No. I am talking about PvP fights. No lag, no corrupt track, Everything fine at that moment but the M-2000 keep alive many times is hit. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Aginor Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Strange. Somehow I doubt the Mirage's damage model is different in MP compared to SP, but maybe thats some peculiar side effect of something else... During the Mudspike Fly-In (last weekend) I saw M2000C go down after just one hit by a SAM. Don't know if SAMs and A2A-missiles are comparable though. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet
Vincent90 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 SAM's tend to be much more powerful than AA-missiles. For comparison, even the ancient SA-2 already had a 200 kg warhead with a 30 km range. The AIM-120 carries a tenth of that...
winchesterdelta1 Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 In one of the latest patch i hit a Mirage head on from 6 miles with a AIM-120C, it kept flying like nothing had happened. I don't think he even noticed. But it gets more crazy. I turned around and hit it with AIM-9. Now he finally notices. But is still able to fight. So after that shock he turned around for a missile on me. He missed and i turn back on his tail. Fired some gun rounds in him, and he still did not want to go down :( So i returned back home cause other people came to help him out. :doh: Was funny. To bad that never happens to me when i fly the mirage. :lol: And sometimes i do get hit but notice nothing. Only to turn around later to notice a hydraulic/fuel leak coming form my wing. Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
pepin1234 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Posted April 20, 2016 The same situation here 2 days ago [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Aginor Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 SAM's tend to be much more powerful than AA-missiles. For comparison, even the ancient SA-2 already had a 200 kg warhead with a 30 km range. The AIM-120 carries a tenth of that... All true, but there are also very small ones, like MANPADS and Strelas. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet
WinterH Posted April 20, 2016 Posted April 20, 2016 Some of the bigger A-A and SAMs seem to one shot it usually but, cannon shells, MANPADS and smaller AA missiles seem to tickle the Mirage in my experience but, I don't know if that was rectified in latest patches or not as I didn' fly the Mirage since about a month ago now. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
Xenovia Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Ohh okay so they did change the damage model, here i thought the Mirage was bugged and i wasn't getting shot out of the skies, and i would keep flying and at times get kills while one of my wings has holes in it or its leaking fuel while it has holes in it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Schmidtfire Posted April 21, 2016 Posted April 21, 2016 Regarding damage model... It's in swedish but quite entertaining. MP dogfight 1 vs 1. I keep fighting without wings and only one engine... My enemy tries to get me in the top of a loop, then he sees that he is facing a rocket. "- Don't tell me you're still flying, You ain't got any wings!" As soon as I realize how bad my damage is, the curious enemy forms up on me and I try to do an emergency landing. :music_whistling: [ame] [/ame]
scotth6 Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 Every time I have been hit by a missile in the M2000C it has ended up being a very bad day. I have only encountered A2A missiles so far. The Russian missiles seem to air burst quite a bit (not sure if that's their design or if I just have more luck avoiding a direct hit) but I will usually end up with nose cone missing (this happens a lot) and holes throughout the wings and fuselage, usually resulting in a total loss of control. I can sometimes just keep it airborne. Against Aim-120B A2A missiles I will usually just die an instant fiery death. It doesn't seem so survivable in my experience. Cheers,
Ktulu2 Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 Having flown it a couple of times recently in pvp, the mirage seems to resist pretty much everything lol. Its to the point where i don't know I've been hit untill I realise I lost radar cone. Once I lost manoeuvring capacities, but couldn't understand why untill I saw in the chat I had been hit by a missile, as I had no clue I was damaged. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
mattebubben Posted April 28, 2016 Posted April 28, 2016 The first thing i think they should do is atleast add a impact sound so you know when you get hit =P. Since Like Ktulu said alot of times i get hit by a missile and dont realise it directly its not untill i look at the radar display and try to maneuver or look at my wings that i realise i have been hit.
Xenovia Posted April 29, 2016 Posted April 29, 2016 Yep, i dont realize i get hit alot, and only notice it because my plane keeps rolling to one side [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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