First time in combat... recommended loadout?

[Pocket Sized]

I decided to stop putting around on free flight servers and sink my teeth into combat by connecting to the 104th pub.

 

But I soon realized I have no idea what to put on my wings.

 

I've done the training missions and know how to operate the radar, IFF, flare pods, internal gun, and guided missiles. (Personally I prefer SARH) Do you guys have any suggestions for versatile A2A weapons that are easy to use? I don't care if they're not the best... I'm so early in the trial and error process that getting shot down = success. (Which has yet to happen)

 

Additionally, if there is a better server for starting out in combat pls let me know.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Pocket Sized

[probad]

2x r-3r, 2x r-13m1, aso, centerline tank is pretty standard, however radar deficiencies with the latest patches added onto the fact that everyone else outshoots you in a joust means really any combination of r-60m/r-13 is what you want.

key to success in the mig-21 against 3rd gen fighters lies in setting up a rear quarter engage. your best friend is going to be gci, and after that, gathering intel from other players' chatter. visual spotting is also important because your radar is a great way to turn a rear engage into you losing a joust. i personally consider the radar as only good for iffing.

 

104th is as good as any for learning, success depends more on how motivated you are in wanting to learn. there are a few dedicated 21 pilots on there who enjoy regular success against eagles and flankers.

Edited April 24, 2016 by probad

[Pocket Sized]

Thanks for the tips! I've yet to actually engage an enemy, but I discovered how amazingly fun it is to creep towards the enemy's airbase using mountains as cover. I saw somebody who was probably a bandit but wasn't close enough to IFF them...

[Elwood]

Get some exercise on the open conflict server too. It's a bit less "death match"

[viperdogsnake]

I decided to stop putting around on free flight servers and sink my teeth into combat by connecting to the 104th pub.

 

But I soon realized I have no idea what to put on my wings.

 

I've done the training missions and know how to operate the radar, IFF, flare pods, internal gun, and guided missiles. (Personally I prefer SARH) Do you guys have any suggestions for versatile A2A weapons that are easy to use? I don't care if they're not the best... I'm so early in the trial and error process that getting shot down = success. (Which has yet to happen)

 

Additionally, if there is a better server for starting out in combat pls let me know.

 

First key to MiG-21 flying.... never be alone against threats forty years more advanced. Get good at the basics. Air to Air be able to shoot things down while efficiently switching between weapons. Next, depending on what server you use (we'll use 104th as an example) study your enemy. You can't just throw your radar on and kick the door in like the Eagles. You need to place yourself in an advantageous position in order to surprise him. Mountains are good if you know how to use them. I'd say the 104th is pretty varsity for someone new to the MiG-21.

 

Back to the original loadout question...For me right now ( all R-60m's) until the radar detection issue is fleshed out. Once it is, my typical loadout is fuel tank, 2 R-3r's, and 2 R-60m's.

 

Checkout our forums if you want more info on the MiG-21.

[Hadwell]

That's one way of looking at it...

 

For me, I can't stand flying with others, either having to use my SA on keeping a wing leader in sight, or having to limit what I do so my wingman doesn't lose me, all the meanwhile, two planes close together means twice the chance someone will pick you up on radar.

 

Solo flying means you can easily hide in the radar shadows of mountains and hills and ambush.

 

As for loadouts, r3rs for head-on, 13m1 for rear aspect max range.

 

60ms are good, can turn sharper and have a better tracker than the 13m1, except 60ms only have a 4km range rear aspect and 13m1s have a 7km range.

 

And it's not so impossible to shoot down f15s on 104th with the 21, flying solo... Check my sig for my YouTube channel.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hadwell

[viperdogsnake]

That's one way of looking at it...

 

For me, I can't stand flying with others, either having to use my SA on keeping a wing leader in sight, or having to limit what I do so my wingman doesn't lose me, all the meanwhile, two planes close together means twice the chance someone will pick you up on radar.

 

Solo flying means you can easily hide in the radar shadows of mountains and hills and ambush.

 

As for loadouts, r3rs for head-on, 13m1 for rear aspect max range.

 

60ms are good, can turn sharper and have a better tracker than the 13m1, except 60ms only have a 4km range rear aspect and 13m1s have a 7km range.

 

And it's not so impossible to shoot down f15s on 104th with the 21, flying solo... Check my sig for my YouTube channel.

 

A common misconception in this community is that flying with a wingman means flying in view of each other or very close. This can have benefits in certain scenarios when both pilot are familiar and it makes sense. Instead imagine you and your wingman both guarding individual mountain valley entrances next to each other, or one hides behind the first ridge-line while the next is just behind the other. One gets engaged or jumps Eagles flying above but looses the offensive position due to a saavy Blue player. Your wingman pops up behind his ridge to engage, creating a hot mess for that blue player. Enough said as I've put out more strategy then the Blue side should know.

[Hadwell]

What your talking about then, isn't flying with others, it's still solo flying, except you have another person around acting sorta like a quasi-awacs

[Pocket Sized]

You can't just throw your radar on and kick the door in like the Eagles. You need to place yourself in an advantageous position in order to surprise him. Mountains are good if you know how to use them. I'd say the 104th is pretty varsity for someone new to the MiG-21.

 

I put quite a few hours in today, I found mountain flying to be equal parts fun and edge-of-my-seat terrifying. Never used the radar because more often than not I would be looking straight at a bogey, turn on the radar, and get a blank screen. (yes it was in standby before turning on)

 

Managed to break 3 or 4 radar locks by ducking behind the nearest mountain, got shot down 3 times, no kills of course... the only thing that bothers me is the fact that I never even got to use countermeasures. Hadwell, how do you usually tell if somebody fired at you? Do you just look for the missile? I'm gonna be getting TrackIR soon so that should make things easier.

[Hadwell]

Usually tell if someone's launched at me by seeing the missile, no real way otherwise.... Mostly I just assume, and, same with using radar shadows, try to mke the missile hit a cliff rather than me.

 

The radar isn't that bad, not really, I just leave it on, and, just like with using radar shadows to hide, I hide my radar by pointing mostly below mountains, and then every once in a while I point my plane up and do a 360 search, also gives enemies a chance to see my radar beam, bait them in.

 

There are more consequences of not using the radar than benefits. So I leave it on. Since the radar sees out front better than I can, from further away too.

 

Also many people mistake the mig21s radar for ew and the signal strength indicators on the Russian rwr give a false sence of security because the 21s weak radar signal.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hadwell

[Sweep]

Usually tell if someone's launched at me by seeing the missile, no real way otherwise.... Mostly I just assume (snip)

 

That is excellent advice, if you're in the WEZ (Weapon Employment Zone), expect a shot!!!

 

As for the OP, personally, I think learning some missile defense stuff in FC3 jets (where you'll have lots of SA and stuff) then learning it in the MiG-21 is a good idea.

 

In general, its hard to build SA in the Fish', so learning how to do that, in a few different platforms, might help you.

 

Alternatively, get Tacview, maybe some friends, and go reinvent the air to air wheel! :joystick: ;)

[viperdogsnake]

What your talking about then, isn't flying with others, it's still solo flying, except you have another person around acting sorta like a quasi-awacs

 

Thanks for validating my first sentence: "A common misconception in this community is that flying with a wingman means flying in view of each other or very close. " You do realize you can fly with a wingman and coordinate with him out've sight, without a GCI controller.

 

Missile Defense doesn't start when you get lit up. It starts by listening to the AWACS or mission forward observer at the evolving picture. First step will be to comprehend where everyone is at. Once your in range of receiving radar energy, pay attn to your SPO 10 Rwr. Come up with a defense game plan if engaged on. Lastly always keep your eyes peeled. Lastly if you ever feel completely out to lunch on situational awareness, flow away from the enemy sector, take a deep breath, get the SA back then turn back in.

 

Sweeper, little nitpicky but WEZ stands for weapons engagement zone.

Edited April 25, 2016 by viperdogsnake

[Pocket Sized]

In general, its hard to build SA in the Fish', so learning how to do that, in a few different platforms, might help you.

 

I am very much aware of that. (No pun intended)

 

My plan is to get used to squeezing every last drop of info out of anything I see: Contrails, splashes, radar spikes, the killfeed, etc.

That way, when I get FC3 my SA will be waaaay better. In theory.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Pocket Sized

[probad]

just the act of switching between aircraft is educational in itself, it will make you notice and think about features you might have otherwise overlooked in both aircraft.

[viperdogsnake]

just the act of switching between aircraft is educational in itself, it will make you notice and think about features you might have otherwise overlooked in both aircraft.

 

You mean the lack of that feature in the Fishbed.

[probad]

You mean the lack of that feature in the Fishbed.

it all depends on how you sell it :lol:

[Frostie]

Thanks for validating my first sentence: "A common misconception in this community is that flying with a wingman means flying in view of each other or very close. " You do realize you can fly with a wingman and coordinate with him out've sight, without a GCI controller.

I think you two are talking about two different concepts of flying in a public server, just as effective as each other. Flying with a wingman is not only beneficial for support but also relies on discipline from both to make effective, the concept of flying solo effectively requires more cunning and without the discipline imposed this becomes easier as you have a freehand, this can be very effective in a public server full of disorganised bandits and friendlies. Rather than supporting a wingman you are using friendlies, unknown to them, as bait. There is no distraction of positional sense in relation to your wingman which leaves you to focus on the task at hand, gaining a good position on the horde of bandits.

 

Flying with a wingman is far more beneficial than flying solo but in a public server full of randoms sometimes it can be just as effective to just go solo.

[Hadwell]

I think you two are talking about two different concepts of flying in a public server, just as effective as each other. Flying with a wingman is not only beneficial for support but also relies on discipline from both to make effective, the concept of flying solo effectively requires more cunning and without the discipline imposed this becomes easier as you have a freehand, this can be very effective in a public server full of disorganised bandits and friendlies. Rather than supporting a wingman you are using friendlies, unknown to them, as bait. There is no distraction of positional sense in relation to your wingman which leaves you to focus on the task at hand, gaining a good position on the horde of bandits.

 

Flying with a wingman is far more beneficial than flying solo but in a public server full of randoms sometimes it can be just as effective to just go solo.

 

yeah, that's basically it, I'm not saying he's wrong to use someone as his own personal awacs, I'm just saying I like just focusing on my surroundings, and using the actual awacs when it's available.

 

wingmen make sense in ww2 planes to me, they fly a lot slower and don't need to mask themselves with terrain, since any and all threats need to get within a few hundred meters and at half the speeds of jet fighters.

 

the main goal then is just to try and get the jump on the enemy, they take turns, one wingman goes down and takes a pass on the enemy, the next stays up high, the one that's already passed starts getting his energy back while covering his wingmen who are making their passes.

 

also at those slower speeds, and not having to worry about bvr or missiles with kilometers ranges, it's not nearly as big of a problem being spotted by enemies, you can use a lot more variety in BFM formation tactics.

 

with the fast paced low flying you need to do with the mig-21, on 104th and the like, it makes any kind of ww2 type tactics very impractical, if not just impossible and obsolete...

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hadwell

[Pocket Sized]

So last night I got TrackIR. I played for a few hours on a free flight server to get the hang of it. I went on the 104th and sure enough I'm having the same issues.

 

I know I still have a long way to go, but is being shot down 6-7 times without even seeing the enemy normal? I can't look behind me without sacrificing my flying abilities, and even then I never come close to seeing the bogey. At one point I THINK I ran a missile into a mountain by dumb luck and saw it's trail behind me.

 

If I know somebody is chasing me should I just firewall it and try to lose them?

 

Also, I noticed it's really easy to get close to the enemy by flying through the weeds, would I have any chance at getting a kill if I popped up behind somebody with my radar off? In theory the only warning they'd get (if they don't see me) is when I launch the missile.

[probad]

not having answers to these problems is why you are getting killed. trackir can tell you if you have a problem, but it can't solve your problems :)

 

there are some general answers but every situation is unique so bear in mind the first most important concept is being able to think on your feet.

 

is being shot down 6-7 times without even seeing the enemy normal? I can't look behind me without sacrificing my flying abilities, and even then I never come close to seeing the bogey. At one point I THINK I ran a missile into a mountain by dumb luck and saw it's trail behind me.

yes getting killed without seeing the enemy is normal. if you could see him then you won't die so easily in the first place! there are also other factors such as being shot from bvr range, and of course, your own amount of experience. when you first start, it feels impossible to pick out a plane that's even 2 miles away. as you get more experienced you will find your eye becoming more perceptive.

 

getting killed a lot when you first start out in pvp is normal unless you are fighting cripples and even then a good cripple has the experience to know how to mitigate his own shortcomings so that he can wreck you. various experiences quickly add up and create a significant gap between an inexperienced pilot and an experienced one. your main goal when starting out is to gather experiences, so keep flying with your eyes open.

 

If I know somebody is chasing me should I just firewall it and try to lose them?

this is very scenario-dependent issue ruled by 2 points, 1. you will generally not outrun a 3rdgen fighter in a race (if you have tried to chase down a flanker or eagle you will know), but 2. running away makes it that much harder for him to apply a missile onto you.

if you floor it, you buy some time but that time is limited, so you should evaluate the scenario. if you know there's a friendly 10, 15 miles ahead of you waiting to scrape your trailer off, of course you would want to floor it. or if you are in some terrain (as you would want to be) it may make sense to try to break contact, in which case it helps to chop the burner after you dodge behind a ridge or something.

 

there are also cases where you are just straight dead no matter what, because you made a bad decision 5, 10 minutes prior.

 

Also, I noticed it's really easy to get close to the enemy by flying through the weeds, would I have any chance at getting a kill if I popped up behind somebody with my radar off? In theory the only warning they'd get (if they don't see me) is when I launch the missile.

:doh: see your first question and recognize it is that question in reverse and you will understand if people laugh a little at this :lol:

of course if you get the jump on someone you'd want to shoot them, why wouldn't you?

 

i do recommend you spend a little time in a fc3 plane, if nothing more than for the fact the better visibility allow you to witness your opponents pulling out their own solutions for these burning questions of yours. you will experience their effectiveness (or lack thereof) and that will be your best teacher. reviewing your flights in tacview is also a pretty good idea.

 

p.s. i also recommend you get in ts whenever possible instead of asking your questions in the ingame chat as you will then get more prompt and detailed responses. people generally don't want to be typing when they are flying.

Edited April 27, 2016 by probad

[Pocket Sized]

I got FC3 last night and spent a bit of time flying the F-15.

 

I absolutely loathe the way it flies "on rails" but understand it's necessary for combat...