How much better is Rift than Vive for DCS World?

[RoyMi6]

For those who don't yet know, Vive has also had their equivalent of the asynchronous timewarp ano other methods of stabilizing the projection at lower framerates. Plus it supports supersampling straight from the interface as well. So in that regard the Vive is quite uo to the task.

 

Now I just need a rediculous PC to run high enough supersampling to play DCS properly.

 

You're right that asynchronous reprojection is akin to asynchronous timewarp, but async spacewarp (which the Vive has yet to implement anything similar to) is what makes all the difference in DCS.

[RoyMi6]

It is a third party tool, but the great thing about steamvr is this kind of stuff. Take a look here, and yes you can use this on rift via revive but I couldn't get the standalone non-steam DCS to work with revive.

 

https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/vr-motion-cancellation-time-to-test.10241/page-4

 

I'll be installing the stream version to test that, but don't own steam huey, or any stream helis for that matter.

 

Ah yeah, I remember now - I was looking at that at the start of the year. Vive definitely has the advantage of the tracking pucks making a reliable offset calculator without annoying mounting solutions. Again, not something I've had a chance to work on but in my head it seems like something that can be calculated given known dimensions and movement of the rig itself.

 

Also, you do make a good point about using the Rift with DCS when you're not using the Steam version but want to make use of 3rd party tools - it's definitely not the most straight forward thing to get your head around and get working! :)

[TripRodriguez]

So I actually got DCS running through ReVive, apparently I had pointed at the wrong .exe LOL.

 

And the motion compensation is operational, though I can't test how well it works for another day or three. This means I may be able to stick with Rift after all. I'm going to test out both VR sets and weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each.

 

Vive has the advantage of 3rd party hardware and plugins, better tracking given my special requirements, and moral supremacy. Foveated rendering coming very soon which will be a huge boost in FPS and allow higher settings.

 

Rift has better display and ASW. I can't imagine Steam just ignoring ASW, they must be working on their own version right?

Edited July 5, 2017 by TripRodriguez

[Jabbers_]

Foveated rendering coming very soon which will be a huge boost in FPS and allow higher settings.

 

I'd like to just point out Foveated rendering is not something that will come out and instantly make things better, this kind of tech needs to be implemented by the game engine. While dcs would support such things, I don't think they will support it on 1 system and not another. ED just doesnt seem to work this way, they dont care to give an advantage to any one group of players based on their hardware, hence why we haven't ever seen any of the NVidia or ATI specific libraries in use that are suppose to help things with VR performance.

 

So, Foveated rendering is a moot point for DCS and why you should use the Vive, but i get your tracking requirements, I've seen your incredible setup ;)

[BigDuke6ixx]

I'd like to just point out Foveated rendering is not something that will come out and instantly make things better, this kind of tech needs to be implemented by the game engine. While dcs would support such things, I don't think they will support it on 1 system and not another. ED just doesnt seem to work this way, they dont care to give an advantage to any one group of players based on their hardware, hence why we haven't ever seen any of the NVidia or ATI specific libraries in use that are suppose to help things with VR performance.

 

So, Foveated rendering is a moot point for DCS and why you should use the Vive, but i get your tracking requirements, I've seen your incredible setup ;)

 

Actually they do this all the time with trackIr, TM Warthog, triple screen support etc. If the lowest common denominator was some guy with a single monitor, mouse and keyboard then DCS would be a waste of hard drive space.

 

ED need to support this new innovation as a matter of urgency, imo.

[PreussLee]

Uhm, can't see how asw should be so much better than asynchrone reprojection in the vive...it works perfectly well for me.I don't notice when its kickin in and it makes dcs pretty flawless...Isn't it the same tech on both hmd's?

[Astronut]

My understanding is that Asynchronous Reprojection is roughly comparable to ATW. This does make a huge difference. Asynchronous Space Warp takes things even further. To my knowledge there is nothing comparable available yet for the Vive.

[TripRodriguez]

Don't quote me on this, but I was not under the impression that Foveated rendering with the Vive addon will not require support added to the game by the devs. A SteamVR plugin does the work I think.

 

The media guy who got the demo said the Foveated rendering took the VR frame rate from visibly stuttering to 90fps... not that I think the results will be that good across the board.

[TripRodriguez]

Edit: Found a review on reddit confirming the following is not true... at least at present.

 

Confimed what I said above: "The aGlass comes with custom software allowing you to manually apply foveated rendering to any HTC Vive experience and the amount of the effect being applied" From the article I linked.

Edited July 6, 2017 by TripRodriguez

[RoyMi6]

Yeah, sorry, eye tracking and foveated rendering (while having amazing potential) also won't likely benefit DCS for a while yet.

 

This is the article you're likely referring to: https://uploadvr.com/7invensun-eye-tracker-for-vive/

 

Given the demo is developed by Nvidia using the Nvidia VRWorks SDK and the article explicitly mentions the foveated rendering is limited to Nvidia only cards at the moment - I'd be willing to bet that there's a MASSIVE caveat associated with their comment that it can "apply foveated rendering to any HTC Vive experience".

 

Also Oculus Async Timewarp = Vive Async Reprojection

Oculus Async Spacewarp is not the same, and the Vive does not currently have a comparable feature.

 

However, Valve developers have said they're working on something that achieves the same thing as Async Spacewarp (https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/0/341537388320793951/#c341537388325283591) but it was also almost a year ago, and since then more comments have come out saying that developers should be focusing on hitting framerate targets rather than suggesting that their ASW solution is being worked on.

 

Can't wait until they do though. ASW has its limits but when it works it's night and day.

[TripRodriguez]

Thanks for the info Roy.

[RoyMi6]

Thanks for the info Roy.

 

No probs - worth adding that all this is just my opinion. I've no insight to any of the development of these things, just what's publically available. The Async Spacewarp solution for the Vive might be released next week and the company behind the eye tracking hardware might create some DX hooks specifically for games they recognise would benefit from foveated rendering.

 

Also, loving your rig by the way. Was going to get a couple of guys together to create something much simpler but other priorities got in the way. Given the current state of the tracking problems though we're not in any rush. Saying that, trying to keep my ear to the ground with these things so make sure to keep us updated! Genuinely hope you get it working one way or another.

[StandingCow]

From the reading I did the rift has the better looking PD and vive has the higher FOV. I went with the Vive because I play tons of VR games outside of DCS and enjoyed the roomscale (which the rift has now but I am not sure the quality of roomscale is as high?). To me the higher FOV is more important when playing multiple games in roomscale.

 

TBH if someone asked me if VR was good to dive into for DCS specifically I would say hold out for next gen, I do enjoy my VR headset a lot but it isn't as big a game changer YET (IMHO) as some suggest, but once the resolution, PD, and eyetracking are in... VR will be freaking amazing and a real true game changer. I can 100% see the potential and improvements are coming fast.

Edited July 6, 2017 by StandingCow

[Mr_Burns]

asynchronous reprojection is akin to asynchronous timewarp, but async spacewarp is what makes all the difference in DCS.

 

Are you able to translate that into something or did you just puke up a Scrabble set?

[BigDuke6ixx]

Are you able to translate that into something or did you just puke up a Scrabble set?

 

Why don't you just google it?

[BigDuke6ixx]

From the reading I did the rift has the better looking PD and vive has the higher FOV. I went with the Vive because I play tons of VR games outside of DCS and enjoyed the roomscale (which the rift has now but I am not sure the quality of roomscale is as high?). To me the higher FOV is more important when playing multiple games in roomscale.

 

TBH if someone asked me if VR was good to dive into for DCS specifically I would say hold out for next gen, I do enjoy my VR headset a lot but it isn't as big a game changer YET (IMHO) as some suggest, but once the resolution, PD, and eyetracking are in... VR will be freaking amazing and a real true game changer. I can 100% see the potential and improvements are coming fast.

 

Come on, it's a massive game changer even today. Monitors are just laughable even compared to the VR development kits. I think VR gets a bad rep from all those people suffering from buyer's remorse over the expensive hardware it makes redundant. You don't see many people bragging about their triple G-sync blah blah blah any more.

 

I say don't wait. Why waste a day with the underwhelming experience of projectors let alone monitors. Why waste time building a cockpit that looks nothing like the real thing and is utter unimmersive?

 

Cost isn't even an issue when you look at what you get. Sure people wet the bed over resolution then turn a blind eye the the miniature flat jokeness that is 2d. And 3D on a monitor is rubbish too. :)

[StandingCow]

Come on, it's a massive game changer even today. Monitors are just laughable even compared to the VR development kits. I think VR gets a bad rep from all those people suffering from buyer's remorse over the expensive hardware it makes redundant. You don't see many people bragging about their triple G-sync blah blah blah any more.

 

I say don't wait. Why waste a day with the underwhelming experience of projectors let alone monitors. Why waste time building a cockpit that looks nothing like the real thing and is utter unimmersive?

 

Cost isn't even an issue when you look at what you get. Sure people wet the bed over resolution then turn a blind eye the the miniature flat jokeness that is 2d. And 3D on a monitor is rubbish too. :)

 

What I say isn't at all a case of buyer's remorce, I have the expendable income. IMO VR isn't where it needs to be yet to be a big game changer, it will get there soon (next generation will be huge).

 

I see plenty of people praising their monitors still, VR is still a very small amount of people and very niche.

 

I still mostly fly in 2D even though I have a VR headset, I wouldn't take a VR headset into blueflag for example, not yet.

[dburne]

Well I absolutely love my Rift, have been flying with it since Jan 15th and have not gone back to any gaming on my monitor since. Just can't do it, and yes I tried.

 

One of the best investments I have made in a PC peripheral, and I even bought it before the price drop.

 

But I certainly do understand, different strokes for different folks...

[some1]

Come on, it's a massive game changer even today. Monitors are just laughable even compared to the VR development kits. I think VR gets a bad rep from all those people suffering from buyer's remorse over the expensive hardware it makes redundant. You don't see many people bragging about their triple G-sync blah blah blah any more.

 

Why not simply accept that people can have different opinions and expectations after using VR? I'm with StandingCow on this one and not a single piece of my equipment became redundant after installing VR.

But that's another topic already beaten to death.

[BigDuke6ixx]

 

I still mostly fly in 2D even though I have a VR headset, I wouldn't take a VR headset into blueflag for example, not yet.

 

I don't find VR a restriction. For example, I can deploy in an A-10C and control every function using the HOTAS, head controlled mouse and Voice Attack. I do read comments in here from a lot of people who don't seem to be able to adapt and overcome, though. For that reason I say VR is ready but that some people just lack the ability to bring together all the tools needed to operate within it.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Why not simply accept that people can have different opinions and expectations after using VR? I'm with StandingCow on this one and not a single piece of my equipment became redundant after installing VR.

But that's another topic already beaten to death.

 

Yes, I accept that some people are unadaptable. They will still be unadaprable come get 2. Anyway, gen 1 isn't a compromise in the right hands.

[some1]

Yes, I accept that some people are unadaptable.

 

Or maybe they want to see everything clearly inside and outside the cockpit like a human in real life, not stare at a low-res pixelated image that suffers extra distortion and blurriness from crappy fresnel lenses with a FOV of a swimming mask.

 

But I see that you know better, so let's leave it at that.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Or maybe they want to see everything clearly inside and outside the cockpit like a human in real life, not stare at a low-res pixelated image that suffers extra distortion and blurriness from crappy fresnel lenses with a FOV of a swimming mask.

 

But I see that you know better, so let's leave it at that.

 

I'll tell you what, I've worn real NVG and what you get in VR is really close if you're doing night oops. Yeah, people cry about the res, but monitors are still laughable in comparison. I don't know why the anti VR brigade get so unset. Anyway, I want the feeling of being in the cockpit,

Not being at a remote operator station.

[StandingCow]

I'll tell you what, I've worn real NVG and what you get in VR is really close if you're doing night oops. Yeah, people cry about the res, but monitors are still laughable in comparison. I don't know why the anti VR brigade get so unset. Anyway, I want the feeling of being in the cockpit,

Not being at a remote operator station.

 

Nobody is "crying" about anything, please try and have a civil conversation. I find the resolution to be detrimental to my ability to quickly read what I need to read in the HUD while in VR, so that is why I, and in fact my wingman as well, usually don't do "serious" missions in VR.

 

I am certainly not "anti-VR" I have said multiple times it WILL eventually be a game changer, but it isn't there yet, at least not for a sim like DCS, this is all my opinion. I am glad you are able to adapt to it so well and not be impacted by the resolution and SDE, but I am.

[some1]

I don't know why the anti VR brigade get so unset.

 

Um, who got unset? You got agitated by one sentence written by a guy comparing two headsets and still drag this topic in the wrong direction. It's Vive vs Rift, not VR versus the rest of the world.