Which rudder pedals?

[Sokol1_br]

Hi Sokol,

 

i am very interested in the VKB pedals, specially at that price.

But I am wondering how did you assign differential toe brakes in DCS with a control lever only?

If you push the right rudder forward, for example, and press the lever, both the wheel brakes will be activated. Correct?

Or just the one corresponding to the pushed rudder?

 

If you brake and don't push the rudder for right or left both wheels will be braked.

 

If push for one side, only that side will be braked.

 

Different method, but in practice result similar to use "toe brakes".

 

The schematic of this kind of brake in (real) LaGG-3:

 

 

The item 1 is the lever that brake both wheels, the 3 is the valve operated by a link (#4) to rudder bar that send the brake pressure for both or one wheel.

 

T.Link software emulate this.

 

Is not "the best" system, but works. :thumbup:

 

(IMO) Wheel brakes is too secondary in flight sim's to be the major consideration when choose a rudder pedal, or pick a inferior quality model.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Bearfoot]

If you brake and don't push the rudder for right or left both wheels will be braked.

 

If push for one side, only that side will be braked.

 

Different method, but in practice result similar to use "toe brakes".

 

The schematic of this kind of brake in (real) LaGG-3:

 

 

The item 1 is the lever that brake both wheels, the 3 is the valve operated by a link (34) to rudder bar that send the brake pressure for both or one wheel.

 

Is not "the best" system, but works. :thumbup:

 

(IMO) Wheel brakes is too secondary in flight sim's to be the major consideration when choose a rudder pedal, or pick a inferior quality model.

 

Sokol_br,

 

Can this method apply analogue/gradual braking pressure? I understand the differential left/right based on the pedal position, but the full braking force is always applied especially if one does not press either left / right pedal. That is, if taxing or landing, and press brake lever/switch without using any pedals, braking force is instantly 100% on both sides?

[B2Blain]

What's the consensus on value rudder pedals? After spending $350 on a Thrustmaster Warhog I don't want to spend $250 for rudder pedals unless I have no other choice. I would have considered VBK's MkIII. I don't know why they came out with the Mk IVs. Just so they could charge another $50? There are not a lot of good options out there.

 

Based on the reviews, Thrustmaster seems cheap and flimsy. So is CH the only real option? Anyone have any issues with CH?

 

Thanks!

[Yurgon]

What's the consensus on value rudder pedals?

 

I don't think there is such a thing. :D

 

The question, obviously, is what they're worth to you, and also how much you're able and willing to to invest.

 

Honestly, I never, ever read or heard a bad thing about the MFG Crosswinds, and I am equally happy with mine. The only criticism some people have with them is regarding the design choice that the feet rest on the pedals, which is not the case in most real aircraft. As far as I know, Milan is already working on a different setup to accommodate those who prefer heels on the ground.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this into another MFG praise, it's just that IMO these pedals are definitely worth their price. And as you can see from other posts, other people are also very happy with their pedals, whatever brand theirs may be.

 

Concerning CH, I read a lot of good things about them; personally, I think the Pro Pedals are too tightly spaced, but if I had a tightly spaced home cockpit, that might actually be an advantage.

 

So it's really up to you what you want from your rudder pedals, and how important it is to you to save cash. Since I fly a lot of choppers, I definitely wouldn't want to miss high precision, high quality pedals, and if mine were stolen or damaged, I'd probably order another set right away because to me that's worth it. :thumbup:

 

Edit: D'oh, I read your question as "What's the consensus on value of rudder pedals?", so my answer relates to another question, sorry. Anyway, I think it's not too far off topic, so I'll leave it in place. Just keep in mind I misunderstood the question.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Yurgon

[Fishnuts]

[ame]

[/ame]

There is also Slaw Device.

[Lucky]

I was quoted $600.00 for the Slaw F-16 style pedals. That's about twice the price of MFG's. I doubt they are twice as good.

[agentdarnell]

I was quoted $600.00 for the Slaw F-16 style pedals. That's about twice the price of MFG's. I doubt they are twice as good.

Its about 200.00 more so depends. For me its the all metal construction and the combat fighter configuration that is drawing me towards them, but no from what I hear the crosswords are outstanding pedals.

[B2Blain]

Slightly off topic. But how much do you use the rudder in BFM? Mostly when you are at a low energy level? I am just getting back into sims. The last time I had rudder pedals was Thrustmaster's RCS. I seem to remember mainly using it to make adjustments on final approach - especially when landing on a carrier.

 

Some advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[agentdarnell]

Guess it depends on what you are flying. Helicopters and ww2 I use them a lot. Air refueling and landing, taxing, taking off, I use them quite a bit

[Sokol1_br]

Sokol_br,

 

Can this method apply analogue/gradual braking pressure? I understand the differential left/right based on the pedal position, but the full braking force is always applied especially if one does not press either left / right pedal. That is, if taxing or landing, and press brake lever/switch without using any pedals, braking force is instantly 100% on both sides?

 

In real planes (e.g. Spitfire) the system allow gradual braking pressure, depends on how much the brake lever is pressed.

 

The distribution of this force is proportional to rudder movement, example you can hold the brake at 50% and send this force 30% to left wheel, 70% to right wheel, although videos on YT show the pilot "typing" on brake lever instead hold partially or full braked.

 

In flight games like IL-2 CloD or IL-2 BoS if used a axis for the 'brake lever" the braking force application result gradual too.

 

VKB T-Rudder T-Link don't allow this, because the brake pressure is applied with joystick button and not axis.

 

But is not "ON/OF" - like press a B key and hold - when the button is pressed the force is applied progressively - a kind of BBBBBBB... - similar to brake in DCS with button, watch that control window.

 

But as is used button this brake force can't be stopped at certain level, e.g. 50%.

So is need "type" on brake button like the Spitfire pilot do with "bicycle brake" in control column.

 

What T-Link do is determine what wheel will be braked if rudder pedal is moved, if pedal is not moved is both wheel.

 

Not complicate like Mig-21 brakes - some sources say that for brake right wheel after press the lever in control column is need move rudder for left. :blink:l :D

 

But in LSN version was simplified for "gameplay" purpose. ;)

[Sokol1_br]

So is CH the only real option? Anyone have any issues with CH?

 

CH is strong, a kind of plastic seems reinforced with nylon (never see one "broken" like certain HOTAS parts :music_whistling: ) and durable - they still using potentiometers but good quality ones.

 

Their sliding mechanism use steel roller's.

 

What can be issue is their obsolete USB controller with only 8 bits of resolution (256 points - Warthog is advertised as 65.536 points) accord some virtual pilots make difficulty precise control for fly helicopters, for planes is less problematic, although some RoF users disagree.

 

This resolution was OK for early 2000's flight sims, but the actual sim's/games claim have "Advanced FM".

 

IL-2 BoS - accord their fans have a "SOFM" -"Superior to Others FM". :D

Edited June 21, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[NeilWillis]

CH is strong, a kind of plastic seems reinforced with nylon (never see one "broken" like certain HOTAS parts :music_whistling: ) and durable - they still using potentiometers but good quality ones.

 

Their sliding mechanism use steel roller's.

 

What can be issue is their obsolete USB controller with only 8 bits of resolution (256 points - Warthog is advertised as 65.536 points) accord some virtual pilots make difficulty precise control for fly helicopters, for planes is less problematic, although some RoF users disagree.

 

This resolution was OK for early 2000 flight sims, but the actual sim's/games claim have "Advanced FM".

 

IL-2 BoS - accord their fans have a "SAFM" -"Superior to All FM. :D

 

Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but comparing Failtek to the high end pedals is frankly wrong.

 

Failtek - no after sales parts available.

 

High end - mine anyway - parts available for life

 

Failtek - low quality potentiometers which will fail within a year or two.

 

High end - Hall sensors or magnetic sensors with far far higher resolution (and yes you will really feel the high resolution in DCS)

 

Failtek - plastic on plastic bearing surfaces

 

High end - multiple ball race or similar bearings giving low friction movement

 

Failtek - Plastic - particularly vulnerable in points such as spring mounting points internally, numerous failures.

 

High end - All metal or all composite construction - very strong where they need to be, and also very strong everywhere else too.

 

Failtek - buy one every time they break - by the time you have had 2 failures, you could have saved your money and bought a decent set.

 

High end - buy once, and dust occasionally.

 

So really, they do compare very well - just not favourably.

 

And as for the quote from IL2 BOS users - maybe they were the ones with the inferior pedals, and they wanted to make you believe in fairy tales?

 

I don't recommend a particular set of high end pedals, because ANY of them is infinitely better than ANY mass market example. Sure they cost 3 times as much, but you get ten times the quality and design, and within a couple of years, you'll end up buying them anyway.

[x39crazy]

Well after 10 years of constant use my CH pedals are showing their age. Getting some spiking but in general they are still very useable.

I'd hardly call that failtek.

When they do finally die I'll upgrade but Jesus I have no idea when that's going to be.

We shall see how the higher end pedals do, but I doubt for sheer durability and reliability they have anything on CH.

Best part I think I got them for $60 new.

Edited June 21, 2016 by x39crazy

[B2Blain]

Guess it depends on what you are flying. Helicopters and ww2 I use them a lot. Air refueling and landing, taxing, taking off, I use them quite a bit

 

I mainly fly fighters - F-15 and F-16 in Falcon BMS. The last time I used a rudder pedal was well over ten years ago. At this point I am thinking that the HOTAS is more important - hence my willingness to fork o er $350 for Warthog.

 

I'm thinking that the value of the rudder pedals would be mainly making fine adjustments getting behind a tanker or landing - runway but especially carrier. Like I said, I maybe wrong

 

I would think fine precision isn't as important in BFM. At this moment I am leaning toward the Thrustmaster TFRP. Yeah, they are closely spaced, but I am thinking it has newer components that CH and would hopefully be easier to set up in Target. I bought a CH rudder pedal but had to return it because I couldn't figure how to get it to work in BMS.

[B2Blain]

I wasn't in a rush to purchase rudder pedals. I was going to wait until there were more reviews out there of the Thurstmaster TFRP, but I noticed there was one for $76 on warehouse deals. A dissatisfied customer must have returned it. A sign? The downside if that its narrow and seems cheaply made. You would think the design and some of the components are better than CH. Maybe not. But at that price you can't go wrong. I thought I try it out and return it if it is not worth the price I paid for it.

[Automan]

For the price paied, I'm quite happy: now I can control the Mustang at ground and brake slowly.

The only thing needed is setup a good curve and little deadzone.

In Europe TFRP have the cheapest price between "plastic rudders"

TFRP 90€, CH Pro 149€, Saitek pro 219€.

I have sprayed Silicon grease over the rails for better sliding .

The only thing that I don't like is the center detent: not good defined, but you can neutralize this problem adding little more deadzone on the center.

Take in mind that I'm considering the TFRP as a transitional device: Thrustmaster have in mind to produce some metal-pro pedals at the end of 2017, and probably I will buy them If I can afford

[Sokol1_br]

You would think the design and some of the components are better than CH. Maybe not.

 

The only component that TFRP can have better that CH is the USB controller (the resolution issue).

 

As for design both are not so good. :)

[Sokol1_br]

BTW - BAUR BRD pedals has all these characteristics who differentiate from "Failtek" (metal construction, electrostatic painting, ball bearings, CAM system *, 14 bits USB controller, GMR sensors...): ;)

 

Testing damper option.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_06_2016/post-842-0-46475600-1466624672.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4543-anons-pedalnyj-restyling-ot-brd/

 

They are more affordable than "high end" models, but is more complicate to buy from Russia (no web shop, only bank transfer as payment option...)

 

* BAUR is the guy that start use CAM in commercial pedals/joystick - although not the first, some DIY in (RiP) Sukhoi forum in 1st decade of XXI century use CAM, and Boeing use similar system for rudder feedback in their airlines.

One can say that MMmaister, MFG Crosswind, Slaw, VKB CAM system has some inspiration in BAUR work. :thumbup:

Edited June 23, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[B2Blain]

For the price paied, I'm quite happy: now I can control the Mustang at ground and brake slowly.

The only thing needed is setup a good curve and little deadzone.

In Europe TFRP have the cheapest price between "plastic rudders"

TFRP 90€, CH Pro 149€, Saitek pro 219€.

I have sprayed Silicon grease over the rails for better sliding .

The only thing that I don't like is the center detent: not good defined, but you can neutralize this problem adding little more deadzone on the center.

Take in mind that I'm considering the TFRP as a transitional device: Thrustmaster have in mind to produce some metal-pro pedals at the end of 2017, and probably I will buy them If I can afford

 

Have you tried to create a script for TFRP?

 

Thanks!

[Automan]

Have you tried to create a script for TFRP?

 

Thanks!

 

No, never used script. I've tried running some preset TARGET profile, but usually I prefer configuring devices inside DCS

[cichlidfan]

Have you tried to create a script for TFRP?

 

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with a Target script for pedals?

 

Honest Question.

When I was using Saitek pedals, I could never imagine a reason to do anything with them using the Saitek software, either.

[B2Blain]

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with a Target script for pedals?

 

Honest Question.

When I was using Saitek pedals, I could never imagine a reason to do anything with them using the Saitek software, either.

 

Toe brakes? Aren't you also able to specifies axes? I don't have them yet and want to insure I will be able to get them to work.

[cichlidfan]

Regardless what you do in Target. All axis must still be assigned in the sim.

[B2Blain]

Regardless what you do in Target. All axis must still be assigned in the sim.

 

In DCS, yes. But I was thinking about using it in Falcon BMS.