Any news on the INS development and PI mode?

[Zeus67]

" but it would be hazardous to expect it to catch the laser spot at the end of the loft trajectory" .... why so ? it was a standard RAAF method to Toss GBU12's from steam driven Mirage IIIO's just using a manual TOSS computation then stopwatch timing from the IP pull pickle .... Designator was turned on at Peak apogee .... didnt loose any GBU12's

 

here we are doing it GBU12 TOSS starts around 8:00 min in

 

This was all filmed with handheld Betamax behomth cameras :)

 

I understand, but that is in real life. This is a simulation so it really depends on whether ED included that ability or not.

[Whisper]

I understand, but that is in real life. This is a simulation so it really depends on whether ED included that ability or not.

 

Well, we started training for guided bombs tossing with our group, it actually works. Lasing element in A10C, tossing element in 2000C. I'd like to add a scouting element in Gazelle to relay IP information. Awaiting INS implementation on Mirage ;)

 

Success rate is around 50%

Some civilians have suffered, I'm afraid.

[feefifofum]

:lol:

I'm sure they were happy to sacrifice themselves in the name of science.

[WildBillKelsoe]

The same way they guide on a air-based laser? :)

 

In a nutshell:

 

The bomb has a seeker/laser receiver on its nose which is able to detect the laser energy reflected from a target*. It has some electronics which actuate control surfaces to alter the bomb's trajectory in order to put the reflected signal in the centre of its 'vision' and keep it there. Which results in the bomb hitting whatever the laser is being reflected from.

 

The pilot is responsible for releasing the bomb such that its trajectory will allow the seeker to pick up the reflected laser energy, and therefore begin guiding. Until it does so, it's simply a normal dumb bomb that flies a normal dumb bomb ballistic trajectory.

 

If the launch platform can detect laser emissions itself, then it can provide some kind of assistance to the pilot. e.g. the A-10A's Pave Penny pod could provide an indicator on the HUD as to where it was detecting laser energy, so the pilot could bomb that spot. More sophisticated targeting pods can enter a laser scan/search mode, stopping when they pick up a signal and pointing themselves (and the pilot) right at it. This also helps to ensure whoever is responsible for lasing the target actually is doing so.

 

If the launch platform has no laser receiver capacity (like the M-2000C), the pilot just performs a regular delivery to place the bomb on (or close to) the target, and hopes whoever is responsible for providing the terminal laser guidance is doing so. The target position is communicated by normal means, e.g. over the radio, pre-briefed, etc.

 

* - it can also detect laser energy which isn't reflected, so RL procedure is to make sure the attacking aircraft is behind the thing doing the lasing, so it only sees the reflected energy, not the actual emitter itself.

 

 

 

Thank you Nomdeplume. wealth of information there

 

 

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[3rd Wing - Raiden]

" but it would be hazardous to expect it to catch the laser spot at the end of the loft trajectory" .... why so ? it was a standard RAAF method to Toss GBU12's from steam driven Mirage IIIO's just using a manual TOSS computation then stopwatch timing from the IP pull pickle .... Designator was turned on at Peak apogee .... didnt loose any GBU12's

 

here we are doing it GBU12 TOSS starts around 8:00 min in

 

This was all filmed with handheld Betamax behomth cameras :)

I can't watch it at work but this is a Mirage III guys. That could explain the "exotic" payload.

 

Disregard, it was already said in the text before the video... Sorry guys!

Edited June 8, 2016 by 3rd Wing - Raiden

[Zeus67]

Today I am starting work on the INS.

[TomCatMucDe]

Today I am starting work on the INS.

 

i don't want to be annoying, but is it possible to finish the magic slaving before moving to something else? We have been waiting for this very useful feature in dogfight for very long.

[WildBillKelsoe]

INS

 

 

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[Charly_Owl]

Today I am starting work on the INS.

 

Yay!

[QuiGon]

Today I am starting work on the INS.

 

Awesome, I've been waiting for this! :thumbup:

[WildBillKelsoe]

Today I am starting work on the INS.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Zeus67]

First thing enabled: You can now select a waypoint as the bullseye.

 

The coordinates at the bottom left of the VTB represent the bullseye.

If there is no bullseye selected, it shows next waypoint. Otherwise it shows the bullseye waypoint number, distance and bearing to it. This is subject to change.

[Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson]

Yes ! Can't wait. Good luck on the INS !

[millenix]

Yes! Hopefully a new 1.5/2.0 patch tomorrow.

[Jacks]

Fantastic news. Being able to enter waypoint will make a huge difference as will being able to use it to locate target or lock close to a target in poor visible in order to drop a gbu-12 with jtac support.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Jacks

[ZHeN]

First thing enabled: You can now select a waypoint as the bullseye.

 

The coordinates at the bottom left of the VTB represent the bullseye.

If there is no bullseye selected, it shows next waypoint. Otherwise it shows the bullseye waypoint number, distance and bearing to it. This is subject to change.

 

what's bullseye ?

[nomdeplume]

Otherwise it shows the bullseye waypoint number, distance and bearing to it. This is subject to change.

I think it's more common, at least in US aircraft, for the system to display the distance and bearing FROM bullseye to the aircraft.

 

Either way can work, and the French might well do things differently than the USA does, but I think it's probably slightly easier for pilots if they have their own position shown in the same manner as it would be given in a bullseye call over the radio.

[jojo]

It's a reference point.

 

Target's position is given in azimuth/ range from that point.

 

The advantage is that if there are multiple fighters in different places, the AWACS/ GCI can broadcast only one picture for everyone, instead of giving vectors to each of them.

 

It takes some time to get used to it, but then it's good.

 

In the specific case of the Mirage, you will be able to the Bull's Eye as DEST waypoint, and you will read your position from the BE on HSI, and by selecting the BE in radar screen you will the position of your radar cursor from the BE on lower left of radar screen.

 

So for SA* it's cool.

 

*Situational Awareness

[ZHeN]

once again jojo, thanks for your explanations !

 

so a bullseye point is a virtual point from which I should search for my target by the bearing and range shown on lower left of VTB ? or VTB will be showing me bearing/range TO the bullseye point ?

[QuiGon]

once again jojo, thanks for your explanations !

 

so a bullseye point is a virtual point from which I should search for my target by the bearing and range shown on lower left of VTB ? or VTB will be showing me bearing/range TO the bullseye point ?

 

I don't know how it is in the Mirage, but usally it's bearing/range from bullseye. As far as I know AWACS calls are usally given as bullsyeye calls. I think in DCS this is the case as well, if you ask for a picture. Bullseye location can also be set in the mission editor for both sides (red/blue).

[Pikey]

Yeah the RL picture in the French cockpit shows the numbers inverted (range then bearing), which begs the question, doesn't it make it harder for French pilots to work with other NATO pilots when using bullseye if they get used to saying it backwards? I guess not, but I am unaware of the 80's history of the bullseye and what its use was at the time of the Mirage 2000C development in both france and other nations.

[jojo]

Yeah the RL picture in the French cockpit shows the numbers inverted (range then bearing), which begs the question, doesn't it make it harder for French pilots to work with other NATO pilots when using bullseye if they get used to saying it backwards? I guess not, but I am unaware of the 80's history of the bullseye and what its use was at the time of the Mirage 2000C development in both france and other nations.

 

It's a feature of the latest Mirage 2000C, so it's a early 90' story.

 

I would guess it's an engineer mistake that stayed because it's not so hard to use anyway :D

[jojo]

Ok guys, some hard Photoshop and Powerpoint work to explain what I'm meaning...see enclosed .pdf

Mirage 2000 C RDI Bull's Eye.pdf

[ZHeN]

so HSI will be showing me bearing to the bullseye and then after I reach bullseye, I should change my bearing to the one, that's shown on VTB and I'll see the target at the indicated range ?

[Pikey]

From your diagram will there be a method of providing Bullseye to bandit in the Mirage? Or was that just a line your drew to emphasise your point?