Powerful MIG-21

[wumas0201]

After this update, I found that the RWR of mig-21 is less sensitivity and can not provide useful warnings of enemy`s threat. this issue always brings MIG21 a lot of trouble, especially in Multipleplyer.

But radar is fixed as it should be. it works very well.

So~

Is that possible to give us MIG21 with "fixed radar" and "useful RWR"??

I think MIG21 will be the king in multiple server~~

 

thank you

[BadHabit]

Radar must be "usefull" as it should be and RWR must be "usefull" as it should be. Mig21bis will be "usefull" as it Should be and nothing more. Rwr and radar are as much accurate as ever before. Try to deal with the fact that your are only flyign a Mig21bis and it can do as much as it is simulated vs the real aircraft. Prieching the threads all over again with fix requests about wont make the module better in multiplayer.

They are already doing you a favor you should know. Spo-10 when locked by radar should give you No directional Indcations! It will be usefull when you fully understand it and use it correctly. Awacs-Search radars have different freq than fighters or SAM sites, the freq also corresponds to the power of the radar.

A radar strong enough to shoot you in long range will bling and beep as fast as a short range radar closer to you. That means also that you will see all 4 lights with the lock wanring tone from those radars at longer ranges! The Spo-10 was made to track some types of western fighters back in the days and the 5km was then the threat range you wanted to get the Danger Close Warnings. Stronger Radars the Faster you are left with no clue of the threat.

[wumas0201]

Radar must be "usefull" as it should be and RWR must be "usefull" as it should be. Mig21bis will be "usefull" as it Should be and nothing more. Rwr and radar are as much accurate as ever before. Try to deal with the fact that your are only flyign a Mig21bis and it can do as much as it is simulated vs the real aircraft. Prieching the threads all over again with fix requests about wont make the module better in multiplayer.

They are already doing you a favor you should know. Spo-10 when locked by radar should give you No directional Indcations! It will be usefull when you fully understand it and use it correctly. Awacs-Search radars have different freq than fighters or SAM sites, the freq also corresponds to the power of the radar.

A radar strong enough to shoot you in long range will bling and beep as fast as a short range radar closer to you. That means also that you will see all 4 lights with the lock wanring tone from those radars at longer ranges! The Spo-10 was made to track some types of western fighters back in the days and the 5km was then the threat range you wanted to get the Danger Close Warnings. Stronger Radars the Faster you are left with no clue of the threat.

 

Thanks for your reply.

But did you ever notice that the rwr is less sensitivity than before??

In the past I was able to judge which threat was coming to me by hearing those different beep freq, it was very useful and provided a good SA for those pilot who was good in using mig21.

After this new update, maybe rwr is more accurate than before, but Spo-10 is obviously less sensitivity than before too.

it won`t provide useful beep freq for pilot. it is very terrible.

all I want is hoping the rwr of mig21 become sensitive like before.

 

By the way, I only fly MIG21 in multiple player. before the update, my KD ratio in 104th server was "4". but with this newupdate, I got only "2".

what`s wrong with my KD ratio?? Is my skill getting down?? of course not. the problem is LN taking my powerful MIG21 out.

[probad]

regardless its important to remember that the aim of the module is for fidelity and not to maintain your kdr. if the spo10 is modelled incorrectly, then by all means it should be refined but using your personal performance with the aircraft as a reason makes for a poor argument.

[BadHabit]

I don't seem to understand your problem. It works fine for me and I believe for a lot of people. I can tell where I am spiked from and also estimate the threat. The issue I found and it is being caused only on multiplayer is that sometimes I can see the DIR light but not the sound OR hear the sound but not the light. This is only on MP and I don't think its wrong on MIG side rather than some lag or comms between clients,

[foxbat155]

A radar strong enough to shoot you in long range will bling and beep as fast as a short range radar closer to you. That means also that you will see all 4 lights with the lock wanring tone from those radars at longer ranges! The Spo-10 was made to track some types of western fighters back in the days and the 5km was then the threat range you wanted to get the Danger Close Warnings. Stronger Radars the Faster you are left with no clue of the threat.

 

Well, according RL manual 4 lights you will get only from 3-5 km depending radar power. With bigger distances Spo should show lock direction without any problems. This feature is because of relatively small directional sensivity of antennas, from close distance radar signal is enough strong and reaches all antennas even those shadowed by fuselage and system have problem with selection. This have nothing to do with any "Danger Close Warnings" it's just electronics from 1960's. Regards.

[BadHabit]

So you say the lock tone and 4 lights are a systems fault? And how about the warnings at normal operating ranges?

 

Mig-21 Headbutter

[Hadwell]

jeeze... the radar and RWR are supposed to be closer to real life now...

 

I have no idea if they are, as I've never seen the actual thing in full action, but I like the current radar/rwr, it looks a lot better than the old one, more authentic looking.

[foxbat155]

So you say the lock tone and 4 lights are a systems fault? And how about the warnings at normal operating ranges

 

Well, it's hard to call this system fault, I think more accurate word is weakness. SPO-10 it's relatively simple analog device, you don't will find inside any signal processors, any software just few resistors, capacitors, coils, thyristors etc. Whole set comprise 4 anntenas, 4 amplifiers, power unit, display unit and signal/lights processing unit, everything created in 1965.

 

Whole set diagram:

 

Signal/Lights unit inside:

 

Amplifier inside:

 

Signal unit wiring diagram:

 

 

Like you can see all is classic electronics from pre-digital era, and in some conditions is just not enough effective. According manual from distance bigger like 5 km lock direction should by shown without problem. Regards.

[BadHabit]

Well, it's hard to call this system fault, I think more accurate word is weakness. SPO-10 it's relatively simple analog device, you don't will find inside any signal processors, any software just few resistors, capacitors, coils, thyristors etc. Whole set comprise 4 anntenas, 4 amplifiers, power unit, display unit and signal/lights processing unit, everything created in 1965.

 

Whole set diagram:

 

Signal/Lights unit inside:

 

Amplifier inside:

 

Signal unit wiring diagram:

 

 

Like you can see all is classic electronics from pre-digital era, and in some conditions is just not enough effective. According manual from distance bigger like 5 km lock direction should by shown without problem. Regards.

Thank you for this!

 

Mig-21 Headbutter

[Hadwell]

hey, there are transistors and rectifyers too or is that what a thyristor is? :P

 

and crystal oscillators, looks like there's some thermally controlled ones in there too, pretty fancy for the 60s...

Edited June 9, 2016 by Hadwell

[Serp Supreme]

On the topic of the RWR, sometimes I notice that it gets canted to the side. I have no idea how this happens, and it changes over to the red lights when it does instead of the yellow ones it usually uses. Any ideas?

[Art-J]

On the topic of the RWR, sometimes I notice that it gets canted to the side. I have no idea how this happens, and it changes over to the red lights when it does instead of the yellow ones it usually uses. Any ideas?

 

It can be switched between day-lights and night-lights mode. Canted one with reds is the latter.

[foxbat155]

hey, there are transistors and rectifyers too or is that what a thyristor is? :P

 

and crystal oscillators, looks like there's some thermally controlled ones in there too, pretty fancy for the 60s...

 

Well, therefore I called SPO-10 "relatively simple"...:music_whistling:.

 

Thyristors are here:smilewink:

[Buzzles]

Thyristors are here:smilewink:

 

Unless the Russians used different symbols back in the day, they're transistors.

 

Thyristors use a different symbol:

[foxbat155]

That's simplified symbology used on many wiring schemes. Check this out:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor

Edited June 10, 2016 by foxbat155
mistake

[Buzzles]

I linked the image from there :)

 

Which is my point, aside from the middle part showing how you'd replicate the function of the thyristor using two BJT transistors, the wikipedia article shows the symbol to be what I posted. Your wiring diagram is using the symbol for a transistor, not a thyristor.

 

To use transistors to function like a thyristor, you need 6 trans whereas the diagram only shows 5. Unless it's showing 4 thyristor + 1 tran. But even that wouldn't make sense as you need a mix of NPN and PNP, the diagram has them all as PNP type.

 

As a bonus, the C3M- is an amplifier. Thyristors are current control, on or off, you'd normally only need one. Transistors on the other hand are used for signal boosting (key property of transistors is gain factor) and are the core of amplifiers.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Buzzles

[BillyCrusher]

That's simplified symbology used on many wiring schemes. Check this out:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor

Nope. It's a transistor symbol for sure. In wiki two transistor symbol used for explaining thyrystor inside structure. Also, marking on scheme is transistor type marking.

[foxbat155]

Well, it's question what we have on the original wiring scheme:

 

transistor when vertical line inside circle is tiny

 

or thyristor when that line is thick:

 

For my looks more like thick line, if you guys see there tiny line i'm ok with that:thumbup:.

[Buzzles]

Sorry, the thickness of the lines has nothing to do with it.

 

The joined up bits are two transistors, tied in such a way that represents the function of a thyristor.

 

The article is actually quite explict in that:

the operation of a thyristor can be understood in terms of a pair of tightly coupled bipolar junction transistors, arranged to cause a self-latching action: [your image goes here]

Your image has a caption as well:

Structure on the physical and electronic level, and the thyristor symbol.

The two NPN/PNP blocks are the physical diagrams, the two transitors are the electrical diagram, and finally you have the thyristor symbol. Edited June 10, 2016 by Buzzles

[BillyCrusher]

or thyristor when that line is thick:

 

But actually it is not thyrystor on your picture :)

It is two transistors (for explaining that thyristor can be imagine as two transistors connected in that way). Correct thyristor symbol is most right symbol on your picture.

[foxbat155]

Yep guys, you right, over-interpretation from my side, well is Friday....:music_whistling:.

[Buzzles]

S'okay, electronics diagrams have a whole wealth of symbols to learn, some are very similar as well :)

[Dugong]

Rwr and radar are as much accurate as ever before. Try to deal with the fact that your are only flyign a Mig21bis and it can do as much as it is simulated vs the real aircraft.

 

What are you basing the the more accurate than ever before on?

 

I tested the new RWR behaviour against M2000, F15, F5, A4E & Mig21 and found the following;

 

-Detects ALL aircraft radars at 80km

-Flashes/Tone noticeable increase in rate at 35km for ALL radars

-Powerfull radar (M2000/F15) has all four lights when locked @ ~30km & no sort of launch indication.

-Older radars (A4/f5/mig21) have no indication of lock outside of 4km

-Older radars have all four lights at 4km exactly and less.

 

To me this doesn't seem particularly realistic, especially the identical detection ranges of massively different power radar systems. It just seems we have 2 different rwr scripts for old/new radar. I havent testred ground radar yet to see if its the same sort of behaviour.

[Bogey Jammer]

Looks like this RWR simulation is still in alpha stage…

Edited June 15, 2016 by Bogey Jammer
mind distorsion