Bombing profiles

[Essah]

I'm finding accurate bomb delivery really challenging. The lack of any kind of bombing aid limits you to world war 2 era fighter bomber techniques, and I'm finding that flying specific speed, altitude and dive angle parameters is close to impossible for me.

 

The F-5E Dash 34 weapons delivery manual is available but the numbers don't seem to apply for one reason or the other. For example it states that for one particular level high speed delivery the pipper depression is 17 mills, when it's definitely closer to 90 mills.

 

I've tried to work out some profiles for myself through trial and error but my troubles with maintaining params means that I can never be completely sure about the validity of the mills i've set.

 

Does anyone have some alternative sources on bombing parameters for Mk-82s?

speed, altitude, dive angle and piper depression. Mostly interested in level delivery since I'm finding hitting specific dive angles to be guesswork without a HUD with a pitch ladder.

 

I'm surprised that it was noted as an accurate ground attacker during operation Skoshi Tiger in Vietnam. :huh:

 

Maybe I'm expecting too much. I was attempting to hit a T-90 but only managed to pull it off once, which I think was more luck than technique, but maybe the CEP I should be expecting is closer to 100 meters than the 10 meters ish I've been attempting to hit.

[GaryIKILLYOU]

In my limited testing 150 mils at 1,500 ft 400knots level with Mk-82s is fairly accurate. Oh and .14 ripple.

 

As far as the Skoshi Tiger accuracy claim goes, it was noted as accurate because it is accurate. Setting up decent dive profiles isn't hard, and its in the regime the fighter likes to ride in as far as handling at low altitude. 5,000 ft. profile with a roll in of 350-360/release at 390 knots with a dive angle of 20° dropping at 1,500ft is crazy accurate with the sight set at 80 mils. 6,000ft rolling in at 370 knots. Release at 400 knots 2,000ft 30° dive angle is another one I found to be useful when AAA is present. Also remember to treat this aircraft as a one pass haul ass type. Drop Mk-82s in pairs at the least. I usually dump everything. Using a lower release ripple will give little spread, while a higher release ripple will give a nice amount of spread to share damage with ground targets.

Edited July 24, 2016 by GaryIKILLYOU

[Essah]

In my limited testing 150 mils at 1,500 ft 400knots level with Mk-82s is fairly accurate. Oh and .14 ripple.

 

As far as the Skoshi Tiger accuracy claim goes, it was noted as accurate because it is accurate. Setting up decent dive profiles isn't hard, and its in the regime the fighter likes to ride in as far as handling at low altitude. 5,000 ft. profile with a roll in of 350-360/release at 390 knots with a dive angle of 20° dropping at 1,500ft is crazy accurate with the sight set at 80 mils. 6,000ft rolling in at 370 knots. Release at 400 knots 2,000ft 30° dive angle is another one I found to be useful when AAA is present. Also remember to treat this aircraft as a one pass haul ass type. Drop Mk-82s in pairs at the least. I usually dump everything. Using a lower release ripple will give little spread, while a higher release ripple will give a nice amount of spread to share damage with ground targets.

 

How do you know when to roll in to get desired dive angle? Even the Stuka had lines drawn on the cockpit to indicate various dive angles? Makes me realize home much I've come to rely on having a HUD with a pitch ladder and an FPM. Surely the F-105 with it's (for the time) advanced computer and was more accurate, no?

 

Either way I'll note down your profile suggestions.

[dotChuckles]

There are roll in references in both the quickstart and full manual for you to get an idea of where the cockpit references are for both 20 degrees and 30 degrees dive angles. That is providing you have set up your approach speed and altitude correctly travelling at 90 degrees to your bombing direction.

 

You may want to just spend some time learning how to keep given speeds and altitudes first.

 

The F5 certainly wouldn't be employed as a high level bomber. With a bit of practice you can get your bombs close and with a bit more you can plink tanks in the turret quite nicely. :-)

 

Have a look around on youtube the 476th have some excellent videos on how to perform a roll in dive bomb attack. While it's in the A-10C the principles are the same.

[autogyro]

The hardest thing for me is getting the dive angle right. Hitting the speed and release altitudes isn't that hard in my opinion.

 

Remember you do have the attitude indicator so that will be what you check dive angle at. You can approximate it as a first pass by the canopy curved structure aligned with the horizon then fine tune with attitude indicator. Remember 80 mils depression at 20 degrees and 79 mils depression at 30 degrees so you can interpolate between the two dive angles pretty easily.

[IvanK]

How do you know when to roll in to get desired dive angle? Even the Stuka had lines drawn on the cockpit to indicate various dive angles? Makes me realize home much I've come to rely on having a HUD with a pitch ladder and an FPM. Surely the F-105 with it's (for the time) advanced computer and was more accurate, no?

 

Either way I'll note down your profile suggestions.

 

Ah the joys of Manual depressed sight bombing ... sight handling is an art.

 

In training you will notice where the Target sits reference things like the canopy rail. This then allows you to achieve a consistent dive angle regardless of your Base distance out. Of course you can only get so close as you need to allow for turn radius as well (Minimum Attack Perimeter MAP).

 

So whilst on base establishing the correct relative position of the target sets you up to establish a reasonably accurate dive angle. A smooth roll in using Lift vector pointed to just above the target (dont dish the roll in) also helps in establishing the planned dive angle. On roll out you need to establish the correct Initial Pipper Placement (IPP calculated before flight) below the target. (The Flight Path is actually held at a point just past the target known as the Aim Of Point ... without a VV that is kind of nebulous ... that's why the IPP is so important). On Roll out note your dive angle (ADI/AH) ... if its not the planned dive angle then decide on a release altitude adjustment. If Steep then release slightly earlier than planned, if shallow then release slightly lower than planned (fingers in ears). Yugging to achieve the planned dive angle wont work ! ... accept the dive angle you achieve and adjust release height.

 

Then as you travel down the dive try to hold the Flight Path on the Aim of Point just past the target. As you proceed down the pipper will drift up on to the target .... make smooth tiny bank corrections to dribble the reticle on to the target. Also monitoring altitude and IAS build up. You need to achieve pipper on AT the planned release altitude AT the planned release speed with the flight path on the Aim of point. Get them all right and a decent bomb will be the result. get any one of the wrong and bombs can go anywhere.

 

As per dive angle corrections Airspeed errors can be compensated for by minor changes to release altitude. Though be super careful releasing low as you might bust the Frag envelope, run out of turning room and hit the ground, or release below the minimum height for fuse arming.

Edited July 25, 2016 by IvanK

[dotChuckles]

There was a very good link on the Mudspike review of the F5 about manual bombing. Have a hunt about on there. Sorry, I'd link directly to it, but I don't think we're allowed to link to the particular site here.

[MBot]

First class post by IvanK.

 

As further reading, there some great older SimHQ articles by Andy Bush on this subject:

http://www.simhq.com/_air9/air_272a.html

http://www.simhq.com/_air9/air_273a.html

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_055a.html

 

I will have to crunch through them again.

 

I hope that BST will provide the delivery parameters tables for all bombs.

[grunf]

I'm surprised that it was noted as an accurate ground attacker during operation Skoshi Tiger in Vietnam. :huh:

I wonder how many flight hours did these pilots have? How many flight hours do you have? I'm sure that after their first few days spent flying the F-5, they were just as green as you and me are today. :D

Combat effectiveness doesn't come overnight, it takes a lot of training and practice.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Real world flying has a big advantage over sims, as you'll know that: "if I screw this up, it might kill me". This is an excellent motivator for accelerated learning.

 

Also, flight training is about making mistakes in a controlled environment with an instructor that can correct you. Identifying your own mistakes takes much longer.

[Sundowner.pl]

How do you know when to roll in to get desired dive angle?

Until we get more practice, and figure out all the references for different bombing patterns - planning will get you there.

 

For example if your target is protected by Shilkas or ZSU-23, you already know the given profiles are useless. To start practicing and figuring out your sight dope (as we are all doing right now), plan your approach - the easiest profile for that is straight-in High Altitude Dive Bombing (HADB). You need altitude, a Roll-In Point, and previously mentioned Aim-Of-Point, if you have those, you're set for a dive angle without even looking at the attitude indicator!

 

If you don't want to do the math, but need a few parameters - using Weapon Delivery Planner for Falcon BMS is a good route, it will set you up nicely. For AOP you need a landmark or an object you can spot. Figuring out the roll-in point (PUP in planner) is a bit more complicated, but can be made easy when you operate near a TACAN stations - you can use either their ranging (not very accurate though) or dial in radial that is intersecting your flightpath and watch the HSI for the moment you go past it - that will get you within few hundred feet off the roll in point. Then just roll inverted, pull 3g, until you get the AOP in the top of the combiner glass, unload (push for 0g), roll around that point to upright flight, and get ready to drop bombs at the correct altitude and airspeed. Weapon Delivery Planner will get you very close to those, even without the sight dope - just keep the AOP in place until weapon release.

[Mr.Pitt]

Mk-82

 

Hey guys. I'm so doing this.

https://yadi.sk/d/L6IWnI8JtpssR

Edited August 1, 2016 by Mr.Pitt