New GME software

[sedenion]

Thanks for this! And thanks for reminding me, why I do most of my coding in Python meanwhile ;)

But seriously, this is an important feature (at least for me) not just a nice to have :thumbup:

You release a new version?

 

I will make a new build, but there is too few changes for new version. Python is probably more flexible, but, Python itself is written in C and can't compete with C/C++ in term of performance, not the same purpose :) (ok, performance for sorting a list of 5-6 string entries is not critical, but to hash 2 GB of data, it is...)

[sedenion]

The new build is online, for who already downloaded the "bugged" version, you can redownload the fixed one using same links (version not changed).

[funkyfranky]

The new build is online, for who already downloaded the "bugged" version, you can redownload the fixed one using same links (version not changed).

Now sorting is perfect for me! :thumbup:

[Snacko]

I was able to test the conflict alert feature today and it did not work. Maybe it doesn't work like jsgme? I have 2 mods called FARP White, and FARP Yellow that replace the same exact files. When I enable them both I get no alert that one mod is changing the files that another mod has already changed.

 

Here is the message that jsgme displays:

 

 

You will be happy to know that I fixed the sorting function for config combo list... that was in fact very easy... For curious people, here is how that work:

 

I don't understand which sorting this is? Is this sorting by install order?

[sedenion]

I was able to test the conflict alert feature today and it did not work. Maybe it doesn't work like jsgme? I have 2 mods called FARP White, and FARP Yellow that replace the same exact files. When I enable them both I get no alert that one mod is changing the files that another mod has already changed.

 

To be precise, OvGME warns if a mod need to backup a file that was already backuped by another mod. That is, if a mod add a file that does not exists in the vanilla game, you wouldn't have a warning, except if you overwrite the file a second time using a third mod. OvGME is designed with for prioritary objective to prevent game original file to be lost... but not to manage mods overlapping (this is not considered as good practice, and this should be avoided as possible)

[Snacko]

Yes, thanks.

 

I agree overwriting other mods should be avoided if possible. But since different people make different mods, it can/will happen.

 

When I install the Caucaus terrain mod, and then install the Hi-Res Buildings mod, the buildings overwrite the changes that the terrain mod made to the buildings. In this case that is ok if you want to use that terrain and also have Hi-Res Buildings. In other cases it could be unexpected results. Since it can easily happen it was a nice feature in jsgme.

 

Maybe you could add it to your list of new features? But maybe it's not too important to most people. For me, identifying a conflict like this is important when you are having problems with a mod that is not working.

[Automan]

Hi Sedenion, could you enable a function to remember the last Directory-Mod root folder?

Thanks

[sedenion]

Hi Sedenion, could you enable a function to remember the last Directory-Mod root folder?

Thanks

 

I think not... but I don't even understand the request. remember where, from where, to where, to achieve what ?

[Automan]

Usually, I put the mod to zip in a subfolder. So, If I want to use Make-Mod for prepare multiple mod, I must search always this subfolder in my PC.

A function to remember this subfolder ( or a function to declare a default path for Make-mod) is useful to avoid searching every time the path where this subfolder is placed.

[Snacko]

Agreed. That's just nice programming. To have the Browse button to remember the last selected folder location. So if you use it several times, even days apart, it starts in the same location. So you don't have to navigate from the root every single time. Most people want to go the the same general folders.

 

BTW, I just tested this in the Config Edit screen. And if I click the Browse button, and then click Cancel, it erases the folder path that was selected before. Cancel should not change the currently used folder. If you cancel it should just close the Browse window and not change anything.

[Rudel_chw]

Agreed. That's just nice programming.

 

I will tell you what is nice programming ... its when you create a piece of software that is actually useful, and then give it away for free.

 

I wonder if you have ever made such a nice program yourself, or you're happy just nitpicking on somebody else's program.

[Snacko]

I will tell you what is nice programming ... its when you create a piece of software that is actually useful, and then give it away for free.

 

I wonder if you have ever made such a nice program yourself, or you're happy just nitpicking on somebody else's program.

Yes I wrote Touchbuddy Toolkit many years ago and gave it away for free to the flight sim community.

 

I also created the Blackshark Cockpit Trainer that you can see in my sig. And give that away for free.

 

And I have over 25 years of experience in software development. So I know how easy it is to add that feature to the Ovgme.

 

How many years have you been developing software? What software have you written and given away sir? Please tell...

 

Sent from my Moto Z Play using Tapatalk

[Rudel_chw]

..

How many years have you been developing software? What software have you written and given away sir? Please tell...

 

I'm no programmer, but I do have shared some of my DCS files ... I dont put them on my sig, but can be found on the user files section.

 

I dont like nitpicking, its very easy to discourage authors with your kind of comments. Hope no one makes that kind of remarks about your software.

[Snacko]

Suggesting features is not nitpicking. It's obvious you are not a programmer and have not worked with user's suggestions. Don't be so oversensitive about software suggestions. The dev can choose to say yes or no. Not you.

[=DECOY=]

Guys this isn't a pissing contest on who does what and for how long.

 

How about we enjoy the software provided free and which is a massive advantage to the game.

 

 

If your gonna start arguing on who's better, may I suggest you PM each other!

 

Just my view.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[LeCuvier]

Guys this isn't a pissing contest on who does what and for how long.

 

How about we enjoy the software provided free and which is a massive advantage to the game.

 

 

If your gonna start arguing on who's better, may I suggest you PM each other!

 

Just my view.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more!

[sedenion]

Ok guys, don't starts to fight... I understands the the problem with "remember the path". I totally agree that this is boring to pick the good path again and again.

 

So to this specific request: First, you have to admits this is a detail, for example, you can use ctrl+c to copy the path string in the clipboard and paste it again into the entry, this works fine, you are not forced to click on the browse button again and again. Secondly, technically, this "remember feature" is not formaly hard to implement. The main problem is that, this would add another ad hoc variables and processes along what already look like spaghetti code. I also received a request to implement the more modern "choose folder" pop-up.

 

Now, about OvGME and its evolution:

The fact is that I developped the root architecture of OvGME in somewhat 1-2 weeks, so to say: extremely quickely. It was designed as a small gadget, additional features was added like you put a lego piece over another one, not really anarchically, but close. The fact is that this is my first application with GUI, I am more used to developps around OpenGL, in abstract paradigms, object trees, mathematics, etc, so to say: what is behind what the user view. You see plenty of details in GUI that does not fits the standard fluent GUI of modern applications, because OvGME was developped as mentionned before: adding some feature here and here, only as gadjets, and it is based on the good old C WinAPI of Windows XP (and even Window 98), all is hands made, nothing is automated. The GUI would requiere an program architecture for itself, which is currently not the case.

 

I am facing now to a dilemm, in fact, I am thinking about developping an entirely new application, because I think OvGME is now close to its limits, I see my own code and I tell myself "Oh crap, what a spaghetti code, if I modify this, I have to modify this as well, and Oh, what is this shit ? pfiouu...". I really would to create a super GUI, with a toolbar, etc. but the tools I have don't allow me to create this easily, and some apprently simple things are in fact a real brain teaser to implements.

[Gliptal]

You may want to take a look at Electron, it's become the goto framework for single page applications lately.

[LeCuvier]

sedenion has given us a very useful tool and it does everything it was supposed to do, and it's free! We should accept what he says: It was never structured for becoming a much bigger and therefore more complex application. And if he tries to add a lot more functionality the bowl of spaghetti may become a Gordian Knot, difficult to maintain and potentially unstable, a source of frustration.

We should not ask him to invest more of his private time into the evolution of OvGME. He has probably some good ideas and we should let him work on those and have fun.

[Snacko]

The fact is that this is my first application with GUI, I am more used to developps around OpenGL, in abstract paradigms, object trees, mathematics, etc, so to say: what is behind what the user view. You see plenty of details in GUI that does not fits the standard fluent GUI of modern applications

For your first GUI application you did a nice job. GUI Standards change, and are good to learn and try and follow where it makes sense. But you have made this fairly easy to use, and quick to get working. Which is a testament as to why so many have moved from jsgme to ovgme. Thanks for your good support. I know spaghetti code can be a nightmare in the long run.

 

Cheers!

[sedenion]

You may want to take a look at Electron, it's become the goto framework for single page applications lately.

 

I don't seek for remplacement of the C WinAPI... I will make some off topic here (but this is mine, so...), this is not an attack, i only explain my point of view.

 

I have to admit I am a little bit extremist and have special developpment ideology...

 

Did you noticed how many application now requiere an additionnal installation of "C++ Redistribuable blah blah" or the "Net Framework Redistribuable blah blah" ? Don't you noticed how GUI are slower and slower despite the fact you have a Core 2 Duo 2.5Ghz with 16Gb of RAM ? One day, I installed the famous Visual Studio .NET Pouet-Pouet last version (evaluation version) to test... Even the installer, created using the very last .NET super last version, was not able to corretly align two frames, displaying graphical glitchs, and was slow as hell...

 

Electron... This is a Node.JS backend, interpreted javascript, running on chromium engine... this is a totaly differet development environement, and I don't even know how this work once "packed": is there compiled code or interpreted using external engine or "virtual machine" ? I don't know... One thing I am sure, is that this is again a "layer over a layer over a layer over a layer"...The only advantage, is that this is "cross-platform"... Did you noticed how much memory Chrome take, only with one blank page ? 500MB... opens 2 tabs, this take 1.5GB... Holly Sh*** !

 

Nowaday, we have now so much layers over layers that even displaying a rectangle on the screen take more computing than resolving physics rigid body collisions equation, soon, you'll need to a Core 2 Duo 4.0Ghz to run a simple calculator...

 

Ok, now, did you see how OvGME is running ? Except if you enable or disable a 2Gb mod (and here, this is hardware limitation, nothing to do), this is almost as fast as an UFO... This take 2MB on the disk, take 1 second to install, this works everywhere, everytime, without any additionnal library, package or virtual machine... And i did some mistakes, some things can be optimized, designed in more efficient way...

 

So yes, the GUI is simple and even rustical, and certainly not perfect, because this is root-low-level technology, dealing almost directly with the system's kernel, and this is boring to code because I have to implement almost all things myself... But, this is my programming standard: Highly compatible, fast, close to the low-level, without any additionnal things... If I have to rewrite OvGME in a more sophisticated fashion, I will use the same standard, but, this will surely take time, more time...

[sedenion]

And I want to add : I hear your requests, and i understand them... I am like you all, I like well designed software, and I hate that kind of small misdesign that force you to workaround... I really would to create a good software, with a smart GUI and features, and as I said, I am currently thinking about creating a new software to replace OvGME, not so much more sophisticated, but a little bit, and more "clean". I don't know if i will, but I am studiying the concept and the "how to"...

[Gliptal]

I don't seek for remplacement of the C WinAPI... I will make some off topic here (but this is mine, so...), this is not an attack, i only explain my point of view.

 

I have to admit I am a little bit extremist and have special developpment ideology...

 

Did you noticed how many application now requiere an additionnal installation of "C++ Redistribuable blah blah" or the "Net Framework Redistribuable blah blah" ? Don't you noticed how GUI are slower and slower despite the fact you have a Core 2 Duo 2.5Ghz with 16Gb of RAM ? One day, I installed the famous Visual Studio .NET Pouet-Pouet last version (evaluation version) to test... Even the installer, created using the very last .NET super last version, was not able to corretly align two frames, displaying graphical glitchs, and was slow as hell...

 

Electron... This is a Node.JS backend, interpreted javascript, running on chromium engine... this is a totaly differet development environement, and I don't even know how this work once "packed": is there compiled code or interpreted using external engine or "virtual machine" ? I don't know... One thing I am sure, is that this is again a "layer over a layer over a layer over a layer"...The only advantage, is that this is "cross-platform"... Did you noticed how much memory Chrome take, only with one blank page ? 500MB... opens 2 tabs, this take 1.5GB... Holly Sh*** !

 

Nowaday, we have now so much layers over layers that even displaying a rectangle on the screen take more computing than resolving physics rigid body collisions equation, soon, you'll need to a Core 2 Duo 4.0Ghz to run a simple calculator...

 

Ok, now, did you see how OvGME is running ? Except if you enable or disable a 2Gb mod (and here, this is hardware limitation, nothing to do), this is almost as fast as an UFO... This take 2MB on the disk, take 1 second to install, this works everywhere, everytime, without any additionnal library, package or virtual machine... And i did some mistakes, some things can be optimized, designed in more efficient way...

 

So yes, the GUI is simple and even rustical, and certainly not perfect, because this is root-low-level technology, dealing almost directly with the system's kernel, and this is boring to code because I have to implement almost all things myself... But, this is my programming standard: Highly compatible, fast, close to the low-level, without any additionnal things... If I have to rewrite OvGME in a more sophisticated fashion, I will use the same standard, but, this will surely take time, more time...

I see your point, and it is true that nowadays apps and frameworks are bocoming more and more bloated and resource intensive.

 

Without getting into a long winded OT though, there are advantages to using things like additional redists, nodejs, and the like: an huge amount of tools at your disposal. No need to code sorting, file access, permissions, save data, backup systems, GUIs and so on: download a well known and supported module and you're set.

 

Want a fancy responsive UI? nodejs runs on chrormium, which means you can use CSS to style it and make it lighting fast. Slow, clunky and unresponsive UIs are fault of the developer not of the frameworks. Also, Chrome does use a lot of RAM, but unlike what common sense may dictate RAM is there to be used. It makes no sense for Chrome to restrict itself to 1GB of RAM when 7GBs are idle on the system.

[sedenion]

I see your point, and it is true that nowadays apps and frameworks are bocoming more and more bloated and resource intensive.

 

And paid... because software like Visual .NET are not free...

 

Without getting into a long winded OT though, there are advantages to using things like additional redists, nodejs, and the like: an huge amount of tools at your disposal. No need to code sorting, file access, permissions, save data, backup systems, GUIs and so on: download a well known and supported module and you're set.

 

The fact is, if you want to develop an efficient and optimized software, you need low access on file system, permission control, etc... And this is not the hard part to code. Even a sorting algorithm is not hell to implement. The real problem is the GUI... THAT is hell to implement smartly.

 

Want a fancy responsive UI? nodejs runs on chrormium, which means you can use CSS to style it and make it lighting fast.

 

Do you really think CSS is fast ? My own "resize" function is fast... CSS is a spaghetti monster, in fact, I don't understand how this thing is able to run without explodinh. As i said, take a look at chrome memory usage, you'll see the cost of "CSS"...

 

Slow, clunky and unresponsive UIs are fault of the developer not of the frameworks. Also, Chrome does use a lot of RAM, but unlike what common sense may dictate RAM is there to be used.

 

Yes, the RAM is also here to be sold by manufacturers... like the Core 8 duo 4.0Ghz and the liquid azote cooling system that come with (fictionnal)...

 

It makes no sense for Chrome to restrict itself to 1GB of RAM when 7GBs are idle on the system.

 

This is not a question of "restriction", this is a question of optimization. the purpose of any software should be to be fast, efficient and optimized, not to don't care about memory usage or CPU ressource because "it is available". Many laptop computer still have only 2GB of RAM... when users opens 4 chome tabs, the computer switch to swap disk memory, and calls me "I don't understand, my computer is so slow !"... "yes, it's because you dared to open 4 Chome tabs... computer industry want you to buy a new computer, that's life !"

 

As I said, I am an extrimist... I saw the computer industry evolving, may be like many here, since the first Intel 80/86... One day I decided to be against some logics, I switched to Linux, I use Windows only because some things like DCS still under Windows... Even under Linux, I am agaist the new "GTK 3.0" and other "Unity" windowing systems, which are kind of monster between C# and CSS that use a lot of ressources for... nothing... I am against many recent direction taken by developpers and corporations... like .NET, C#, Swift, CSS... because yes, nobody seem to care anymore about ressources and optimization, we have GHZ and GB, so "don't care !".

 

I can understand the logic of buying a new graphic card to display very beautifull grapgics at high speed, but I am against the logic of buying RAM and GPU because Microsoft or GTK team decided that "Well, we have GHZs, let's write some dirty and stupid code, we don't care, the CPU is here to compute it !"

Edited November 27, 2017 by sedenion

[sedenion]

Some news for you...

 

The development of OvGME is now stopped until new order. I am currently working on its successor, this is far to be finished, but this is on the good way.

 

Don't jump of joy now, nothing is aboutished and still many work to achieve. However, some words about what this successor should be.

 

What is currently implemented:

 

- The backend program is totally new, massively object-oriented, much much more modular, to allow extending features more easily.

- Decentralized configurations, it is now possible to locate all configuration where we want, creating separate folders (some details bellow).

- All configuration and data files in XML, more flexible, and transparent (users can read them, understand them, maybe manually edit or create them if they need to)

- The software now works around what I called "Modules" and "Contexts": One Module is, for example, a full configuration for one or several games or application. Inside each module, you can create several Contexts. One Context, corresponds to what is called "One configuration" in OvGME. This mean, for example, you can create a Module "DCS 1.5 Beta", with two Contexts : One for the game root, and another for the "Saved game" folder...

- As cherry on the cake, Modules are planned to show a banner (picture) of your choice on the main window, this way, you feel at home.

- Mods are now called "Package", and you will understand why.

- Package overlap is now supported and managed smartly (but not magically).

- Backups are now zipped, the default is to create zip backup with 0 compression to increase speed, but it will be allowed to choose a compression level.

 

What is planned (non exhaustive):

 

- Packages dependency management, which mean, mod-makers could be able to declare in some config file, that a package need another one to be installed first. This allow to create "mods of mods", or "patch of mods"... The dependency mechanism is already here as potential.

- The ability to include a logo or picture (only one) for packages in addition to the usual description.

- A new GUI, with tab controls, to allow a more flexible and quick access to sub-features such as mod profiles, online repository, etc.. But, I don't have a clear vision of the GUI organization for now, all is subject to change.

- Mod profiles will now be called "batches", and are planned to have a customizable installation order.

- An HTTPS compatible online repository management, using libcurl, but I have a lot of things to acheive before that.

- A 'Module Template' mechanism, to allow people to create pre-architectured Modules with some presets (banners, names, network repository, etc), so other people can donwload and open the "Module Template", specify some parameters corresponding to its specific local config, and then : all is ready to go !

Edited December 15, 2017 by sedenion