Violent rotation on Takeoff since OB update

[Nealius]

Prior to the 1.5.4.5595 update takeoffs were smooth and docile. After the update rotation has gotten so violent it's hard to avoid tail strikes and sometimes I belly-strike while trying to reign the nose in.

 

With a centerline tank and two Magics, the jet won't rotate until 177kts, at which point the nose violently rises, topping out at 17 degrees even with neutral stick. On occasion I try to fight the nose and end up smacking my belly on the runway with practically no downward stick.

 

Is anyone else experiencing violent rotations?

[Ilyushka00]

Yup noticed that as well, as much as I try to make a smooth rotation the M2K jerks upwards. Not sure what has happened.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Ilyushka00

[jeffdude]

I am experiencing this on the Nevada map as well. Takeoffs are no longer smooth. Also any wind causes me to go off the runway. There isn't enough rudder or NWS to keep up.

[SCU]

That's the case for me in 1.5.4 too. What could be related to this is that when landing it's impossible to aerobrake for me at least, the nose slams very hard onto the ground almost as soon as touch down. This looks like a case of wheel brakes being automatically applied or something like that.

 

See this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=172636

[Conroy]

Same here. Bump!

[Andrei]

Confirm. On a positive note, taxi behavior became much better than it used to.

However there's:

1. Insufficient rudder authority on takeoff roll

2. Much higher sensitivity in pitch channel compared to previous iterations.

[T_A]

I also confirm on 1.5.4 , the pitch happens way too instant and i need to give too much pitch controll

[Harke]

Same here

[Fox One]

I remember there was a time when takeoff and landing behaviour were pretty decent. After more than half a year, the FM should be pretty well polished by now. Instead of getting better and better, it seems to me this FM is actually getting worse and worse.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

I can confirm the violent rotation tenancy in 1.5.4

 

I've seen it in no wind conditions in a clean configuration (full fuel load), and close to max gross weight (2x Magic, 2x Fuel tanks, 4x GBU 12, max fuel). Seems to me to be independent of wind speed.

 

My takeoff technique is to apply full Military power, release brakes, apply ~1/2 aft stick (to assist with the NWS/Rudder ineffectiveness at higher speeds), Rudder and Lateral stick to maintain center line, I select full AB at 100 knot indicated, at ~170 knots I program roughly 2/3 aft stick to rotate. With positive rotation started I neutralize my aft stick input to avoid over rotation.

 

As the aircraft practically jumps off the runway I try to program the nose to an attitude to keep from settling back onto the runway.

 

At lower gross weights (Clean/AA config) the tendency to settle is fairly mute. At higher gross weights I always feel the mains back on the ground.

 

This is a pronounced change from the FM around a month ago, I could consistently rotate the nose to match the rotation line to the horizon on the HUD and then fly off the runway in that attitude.

[jojo]

I can confirm the violent rotation tenancy in 1.5.4

 

I've seen it in no wind conditions in a clean configuration (full fuel load), and close to max gross weight (2x Magic, 2x Fuel tanks, 4x GBU 12, max fuel). Seems to me to be independent of wind speed.

 

My takeoff technique is to apply full Military power, release brakes, apply ~1/2 aft stick (to assist with the NWS/Rudder ineffectiveness at higher speeds), Rudder and Lateral stick to maintain center line, I select full AB at 100 knot indicated, at ~170 knots I program roughly 2/3 aft stick to rotate. With positive rotation started I neutralize my aft stick input to avoid over rotation.

 

As the aircraft practically jumps off the runway I try to program the nose to an attitude to keep from settling back onto the runway.

 

At lower gross weights (Clean/AA config) the tendency to settle is fairly mute. At higher gross weights I always feel the mains back on the ground.

 

This is a pronounced change from the FM around a month ago, I could consistently rotate the nose to match the rotation line to the horizon on the HUD and then fly off the runway in that attitude.

 

It might not be the best technique...

 

Engage NWS (DIRAV).

Apply break.

Full dry power.

Release break.

Full afterburner.

Rotation speed: from 120kt for clean aircraft to 160kt for max take off weight.

At rotation speed apply aft stick gently to bring inverted T on horizon (13 degrees AoA).

If you rotate quickly wait with inverted T on horizon for the plane to lift off.

If you rotate too slowly the plane will lift off before the T reaches horizon.

Perfect rotation speed is when the plane lift off as the T reaches the horizon.

 

If you pull the stick too early you may over rotate and do a tail strike.

 

Note: You may rise your seat a little bit to see the T at the bottom of the HUD.

 

Until next update cross wind will be a problem, nothing to do but wait.

Edited August 23, 2016 by jojo

[Nealius]

Except that technique doesn't work with the current FM.....it did work prior to the 1.5.4.55952 update.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Nealius

[NeilWillis]

Thanks for the response CptSmiley. It's hardly surprising the odd error creeps in - your rate of progress is a wonder to behold. Keep up the excellent work!

[jojo]

Except that technique doesn't work with the current FM.....it did work prior to the 1.5.4.55952 update.

 

I did it yesterday, after update on Open Beta, clean aircraft and 2 Magic + 2 wing tanks + 4 Mk 82.

It's not as smooth as it used to be, but it still works.

[Nealius]

Clean aircraft or with centerline and it doesn't work for me. I pull 25% aft stick after 120kts, plane won't rotate until over 170kts and does so violently with the nose pitching up to 17 degrees or so.

 

With two wing bags takeoff behavior is a lot more docile but still twitchy.

[Big Nuts]

Yeah it's purdy scary

[Ilyushka00]

That's the case for me in 1.5.4 too. What could be related to this is that when landing it's impossible to aerobrake for me at least, the nose slams very hard onto the ground almost as soon as touch down. This looks like a case of wheel brakes being automatically applied or something like that.

 

See this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=172636

 

No aerobraking for me as well, nose smacking the ground shortly after touchdown. Hopefully this will get fixed in the next update, as it was working fine before.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

It might not be the best technique...

 

Engage NWS (DIRAV).

Apply break.

Full dry power.

Release break.

Full afterburner.

Rotation speed: from 120kt for clean aircraft to 160kt for max take off weight.

At rotation speed apply aft stick gently to bring inverted T on horizon (13 degrees AoA).

If you rotate quickly wait with inverted T on horizon for the plane to lift off.

If you rotate too slowly the plane will lift off before the T reaches horizon.

Perfect rotation speed is when the plane lift off as the T reaches the horizon.

 

If you pull the stick too early you may over rotate and do a tail strike.

 

Note: You may rise your seat a little bit to see the T at the bottom of the HUD.

 

Until next update cross wind will be a problem, nothing to do but wait.

I get what you're saying, but like other here it doesn't work anymore. As has been established there was an error made during the update leading to some anomaly cause most of us not be able to rotate until 170. And as stated previously and in other threads the lack NWS and rudder authority during the takeoff roll is still an issue. The fix being to apply some after stick.

 

Your suggestion is sound airwork, just currently won't always get the proper results. That's what's lead to this

 

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