Magic 2 missile with short range radar

[Maiser]

Hi,

 

can someone explain to me how does this work? As long as i have seen, the official tutorial tells you to use some keys of your hottas to switch between short radar ranges special modes. Others say to use "V" to cicle between them. As my hottas does not have them binded and V is neither binded, i have no idea on how to do this!

[jojo]

Obviously you are newcomer to the M-2000.

 

Di you find the manual ?

X:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Doc

[Maiser]

I was looking at this manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uSpZROuEd3WnVhcm5hTUJOTjg/view and youtube videos.

 

The manual you tell, states this (regarding radar use with Magic 2 missile:

 

If the target is also locked on radar, a smaller circle will appear inside the seeker search

area circle indicating that the target is in the NO ESCAPE zone.

 

I can also find this:

 

Close Combat Modes (CCM)

Close Combat Mode is a special mode for air to air engagements. In this mode, the radar

will be set at a range of 10 nautical miles and it will lock on the closes contact it can detect.

 

What i am really interested is in the key i need to toggle between this CCM, which is what i can not find.

 

Also, this is my first day with mirage2000c, yes.

[CrashO]

The 2 buttons you are looking for are "Special Modes FWD" and "Special Modes AFT".

 

If you check page 25 of the Mirage Manual (Chuck's guides are awesome, but a manual, they are not. They are guides). You will find this:

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by CrashO

[Maiser]

Fine, thanks! To sum up, bind "Special Modes FWD to V". You can do it also with AFT but FWD mode grants you a circle, which seems more comfortable to start with.

[Chrinik]

Forget the circle. What you also need is "Magic Slave Button", which is also used for designating targets in Air to Ground modes.

This way, if you have a target locked with the Radar, you can make your Magic Seekerhead LOOK AT the contact, possibly getting an off-boresight lock if the missile can see the target. Then quickly pitch your nose towards the target and fire a Magic.

The circle just tells you where to idealy put the target before launch, and weather or not you are in maximum firing ranges or optimal firing ranges...

 

You can therefore use the shortrange Radar modes (Boresight, horizontal scan and vertical scan) to quickly aquire a target, slave the Magic seeker to it and once you have a positive lock, fire immediately.

 

Otherwise the Magic seeker stays boresighted. No matter wether or not you have a Radar lock. And to reiterate, the Boresight is AT THE GUN CROSS, the circle is NOT where the Magic is looking.

 

 

In this video, you notice that my enemy is nowhere NEAR my boresight when I get the magic lock, this is because I hold down the Magic Slave Button and after getting a lock, simply waiting for my nose to point roughly at the target so the missile has to pull less Gs.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Chrinik

[Charly_Owl]

Chuck's guides are awesome, but a manual, they are not.

 

Quoted for truth.

[Archaic]

Edit: Disregard. I'm not bright.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Archaic

[QuiGon]

This thread ended up very confusing.

 

Let me try to clearify some things:

- There is no special short range radar. The Mirage has just one single radar. What it has are special radar modes dedicated to close combat (dogfights).

 

- There are 4 different close combat modes. They all do lock automatically on the first target they find, but they differ in their search pattern:

 

• Boresight Scan: Scans in a narrow area around your nose and is used to lock on targets right in front of you
  
• Vertical Scan searches vertically across the HUD, looking for a target below or above you and thus is especially usefull in a dogfight.
  
• Horizontal Scan 1 searches horizontally across the HUD and is useful if you know there is an enemy somewhere in front of you at the same level, but you don't know exactly where.
  
• Horizontal Scan 2 is the same as Horizontal Scan 1, except that it uses Medium Pulse Repition Frequency, while Horizontal Scan 1 uses High Pulse Repition Frequency.
  

 

- You can cycle between Boresight Scan Mode and Vertical Scan Mode with the Special Modes FWD command.

 

- You can cycle between Horizontal Scan Mode 1 and Horizontal Scan Mode 2 with the Special Modes AFT command.

 

- You can find these commands in the control settings of the Mirage 2000, where you can bind them to a key you want.

 

- There is also another function that Chrinik already mentioned, which is the Magic Slave Button. If you hit this button while having a target in radar lock, the magic seeker will be slaved to this target. You can find this command in the Mirage 2000 control settings as "Magic Slave, AG Designate, INS Position Update", because it hase some other functions as well. You can also assign a key to this command.

 

 

I hope this makes it more clear :)

[ZHeN]

very nice clarification, QuiGon

a tiny correction:

If you hit this button while having a target in radar lock, the magic seeker will be slaved to this target.

magic seeker won't be slaved to the target ... it will be slaved to the radar, where it's looking at

but if you turn off your radar after this, or somehow lose lock, magic will still remain locked onto the target

Edited November 15, 2016 by ZHeN

[QuiGon]

very nice clarification, QuiGon

a tiny correction:

 

magic seeker won't be slaved to the target ... it will be slaved to the radar, where it's looking at

but if you turn of your radar after this, or somehow lose lock, magic will still be locked onto the target

 

Thanks, you're right of course. Technically the Magic seeker will be slaved to the radar, but I think slaving is only possible if you have locked onto a target, isn't it? If so, then practically the magic seeker will be slaved to the target. Yes, this is not a technically correct explanation, but I think it's better to understand for a beginner, which is why I said it like this even if it's not entirely correct :)

Edited November 15, 2016 by QuiGon

[ViFF]

very nice clarification, QuiGon

a tiny correction:

 

magic seeker won't be slaved to the target ... it will be slaved to the radar, where it's looking at

but if you turn off your radar after this, or somehow lose lock, magic will still remain locked onto the target

 

Once the radar is turned off is it possible that the magic seeker will lose lock if the intensity of the IR signature is weak?

Or is it's all aspect capability very good enabling it to stay locked even at the weakest IR signature?

[Robin_Hood]

If the IR signature is too weak, you will not have an seeker lock in the first place, even when slaved by radar. The radar slaving cannot make the seeker lock too weak an IR signature, it only points it in the right direction.

 

If you have the tone for the seeker lock, you will not lose lock if you turn off your radar.

[ZHeN]

btw, don't forget your "magic unlock" button - very useful for unlocking magics' seekers

[CoBlue]

"Magic Slave Button" don't work in latest 1.5 update. I have a locked target with 530, I press "Magic Slave Button" & the lock is broken? It worked fine doing like that before.

Also it's hard to get a lock now when using Magics?

Edited December 3, 2016 by CoBlue

[jojo]

530 isn't the Magic

 

Super 530D

R550 Magic 2

 

Super 530 doesn't need the slave button. But if it does break the lock, it may be a bug.

[CoBlue]

530 isn't the Magic

Super 530D

R550 Magic 2

Super 530 doesn't need the slave button. But if it does break the lock, it may be a bug.

Yes, I know the difference.

I select "Super 530D", I get a radar lock.

I press "Magic Slave Button" to slave Magics to radar > the lock is lost?

So, I can't slave the Magics to radar?

[myHelljumper]

Select the magics before slaving them.

[Frederf]

I don't know how to properly utilize Magic II missiles without ever targeting the intended target with the radar. Is there a way to deliver these missiles without any use of radar?

[QuiGon]

I don't know how to properly utilize Magic II missiles without ever targeting the intended target with the radar. Is there a way to deliver these missiles without any use of radar?

 

I guess you're new to the Mirage, because we had to wait 6-9 months IIRC after beta release to get the magic slave function. In this time you could only use the Magic without the radar :D

So yeah, what it is entirely possible to use it without the radar. It works the same way as any other IR missile I know of. Just select the missile, move the crosshair on the HUD over the enemy aircraft and it will lock automatically.

[Whisper]

Yes, I know the difference.

I select "Super 530D", I get a radar lock.

I press "Magic Slave Button" to slave Magics to radar > the lock is lost?

So, I can't slave the Magics to radar?

 

You're probably onto a bug, but just for my information, why do you push "Magic Slave Button" when using 530D missiles?

[Kusch]

Before 1.5 Magic work fine, in this time something wrong with slave.

[QuiGon]

Before 1.5 Magic work fine, in this time something wrong with slave.

 

Before 1.5 there was no Magic. There wasn't even a Mirage 2000 :huh:

1.5 is older than the Mirage 2000 and Magic slaving works just fine for me. Well, it worked just fine yesterday.

[Kusch]

1.5.5 better? :smilewink:

Yesterday I tried to shoot down the Tu-160 (no radar mode) and Magic did not catch her signal, when i fired second Magic then caught his (missile) heat, but still does not detect Tu-160 (a distance of 3km from the rear hemisphere). Maybe somewhere there is a problem? In radar mode is ok.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Kusch

[QuiGon]

1.5.5 better? :smilewink:

Yesterday I tried to shoot down the Tu-160 (no radar mode) and Magic did not catch her signal, when i fired second Magic then caught his (missile) heat, but still does not detect Tu-160 (a distance of 3km from the rear hemisphere). Maybe somewhere there is a problem? In radar mode is ok.

 

Hmm, I've not attacked Blackjacks in DCS so far, so yeah, maybe there's something wrong with them? The Magics always picked up fighters flawlessly for me.