Transfer of keys between accounts is suspended

[SNAFU]

There should be way to temporarely give someone a licence. For example if a squaron wants to teach students via a L39 but does not want to force new students to buy the licence. So the squadron purchases the licence and gives it temporarely to the student. After he decides that he wants to continue he returns the licence to the squadron and purchases the licence on his own. ED would sell licences and squadrons could actually make a use of the trainers.

[BIGNEWY]

There should be way to temporarely give someone a licence. For example if a squaron wants to teach students via a L39 but does not want to force new students to buy the licence. So the squadron purchases the licence and gives it temporarely to the student. After he decides that he wants to continue he returns the licence to the squadron and purchases the licence on his own. ED would sell licences and squadrons could actually make a use of the trainers.

 

Isn't that trading also?

 

A gift is something you give and the recipient user keeps, that is the way I interpret it.

[SNAFU]

For me trading is that you give someone something and expect an return. If you borrow someone your bicycle so he can learn to ride are you considered as bicycle trader? You still paid for your bike and the guy who learnt to ride will likely buy his own bike from the retailer when he found out that it is quite good to have a bike.

 

If I buy 10 licences at a event sale and resell them on ebay for normal price that is trading.

[BIGNEWY]

Hopefully ED will make it a lot clearer when the gift system is ready.

[majapahit]

ED did not "Create" the Problem, EULA Abusers Created the Problem.

 

That's the nitty gritty of it.

 

Dont blame a publisher/developer for people Violating the EULA.

 

 

I cannot see 'abuse' properly described.

 

If even 'many' or 'a lot' of transfers take place, the 9.1 rules as phrased and stated describes a perfectly acceptable process of rights transfer.

 

This is - for the most part - a game, one might expect hundreds of youngins to enter the DCS fray. These days these computer kids are 15% ADHD, and most have the attention span of a mouse.

 

That is not to say such behaviour can be rephrased as ‘abusing’ the ED profits margin.

 

If a hefty exchange of rights is taking place, As Long As such exchange of rights would be in accordance of - former - 9.1 - then this is a mere market characteristic, nothing to be upset about and in particular nothing to become unjustly judgemental about.

 

Placing the humiliation and dishonour of ‘abuse’ on customers who frankly thought they bought something, rights of usage, and now are being pushed into renting usage,

 

that frankly seems reproachable behaviour that tries to cover up a possible ED change of heart concerning their optimal profit formula (and perhaps are even going about this erroneously where they might hurt their profit margin but who is to say).

 

Nowhere can you blame a customer base for this.

Edited November 7, 2016 by majapahit

[BIGNEWY]

you are going off on a tangent now,

 

abuse - use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse

the improper use of something

 

in this context seems perfectly fine for someone not complying with the EULA.

 

Let us not get off topic.

[majapahit]

you are going off on a tangent now,

 

abuse - use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse

the improper use of something

 

in this context seems perfectly fine for someone not complying with the EULA.

 

Let us not get off topic.

 

back to you

[BIGNEWY]

back to you

 

Thanks

 

Wait for ED to sort the new gifting system.

[secret1962]

Gifting is not an EULA violation, since it is not commercial related. If someone wants to then gift the same key to someone else again that is still gifting.

 

Someone started editing the EULA silently..

 

Old 9.2 is now 9.1

This is the old 9.1

 

"9.1 You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this Licence to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this Licence and you remove the Program from your computer."

 

Again, everything done in the shades.

Edited November 7, 2016 by secret1962

[NineLine]

Gifting is not an EULA violation, since it is not commercial related. If someone wants to then gift the same key to someone else again that is still gifting.

 

Someone started editing the EULA silently..

 

Old 9.2 is now 9.1

This is the old 9.1

 

"9.1 You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this Licence to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this Licence and you remove the Program from your computer."

 

Again, everything done in the shades.

 

Once again, it wasn't the innocent gifting of modules to friends that was the issue, and once again they are going to work on a better gifting system that cant be exploited (or at least cut down on exploiting I would hope), I am not sure why this discussion is still on going?

[secret1962]

Once again, it wasn't the innocent gifting of modules to friends that was the issue, and once again they are going to work on a better gifting system that cant be exploited (or at least cut down on exploiting I would hope), I am not sure why this discussion is still on going?

 

Well it looks like it was the innocent gifting the cause if someone mistakes gifting like this:

 

Isn't that trading also?

 

A gift is something you give and the recipient user keeps, that is the way I interpret it.

[NineLine]

Well it looks like it was the innocent gifting the cause if someone mistakes gifting like this:

 

Sure, I saw questionable gifting.. for example I saw a "review" youtube page that was borrowing a friends key so he could review on his monetized youtube videos... I think loaning a module to someone so they can fly an aircraft occasionaly seems off as well. but these really arent the big reason for the issue. There was re-selling of keys and such going on, on a larger scale than just someone not wanting a module anymore and selling it to a buddy.

 

At the end of the day ED is a business, they have to protect their products and ability to sell those. If people all pick one module to buy, then swap keys as they want to play a module that does rob ED of sales, and like it or not, that wouldnt make anyone happy that is trying to run a business.

Edited November 7, 2016 by NineLine

[Johnny Dioxin]

FWIW, DCS Support have sorted the issue for me.

 

I'm still very unimpressed at how this has been handled.

[secret1962]

Sure, I saw questionable gifting.. for example I saw a "review" youtube page that was borrowing a friends key so he could review on his monetized youtube videos... I think loaning a module to someone so they can fly an aircraft occasionaly seems off as well. but these really arent the big reason for the issue. There was re-selling of keys and such going on, on a larger scale than just someone not wanting a module anymore and selling it to a buddy.

 

At the end of the day ED is a business, they have to protect their products and ability to sell those. If people all pick one module to buy, then swap keys as they want to play a module that does rob ED of sales, and like it or not, that wouldnt make anyone happy that is trying to run a business.

 

 

So there is not much of a proof, just a feeling. It was more about business rather than an "EULA violation".

 

By the way the word "trade" was only recently added to the EULA. What is going on really ? Not to mention it is not directed to the license itself, rather to the program. Is it legal to do so ?

 

Friend A buys module A and friend B buys module B. They decide to gift the modules each other. That is gifting still, how can you call it trading ? It is VERY very unclear, atleast to me, how this is being handled. Why not just say the truth rather than call on EULA violations ? (violations that weren't even violations before the recent EULA subtle modifications)

 

Old:

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this Licence or in clauses 4.1 and 4.2 below, or as permitted by any local law, you undertake to use the Program for your own personal use, and you shall not:

(a) sell, rent, lease, sub-license, merge, adapt, vary, modify the Program, or any copies of the Program, without the express prior written consent of TFC;

 

New:

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this Licence or in clauses 4.1 and 4.2 below, or as permitted by any local law, you undertake to use the Program for your own personal use, and you shall not:

(a) sell, trade, rent, lease, sub-license, merge, adapt, vary, modify the Program, or any copies of the Program, without the express prior written consent of TFC;

 

USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO THE LICENCE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW. THIS LICENCE AGREEMENT («LICENCE») IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT BETWEEN YOU («LICENSEE» OR «YOU») AND THE FIGHTER COLLECTION LIMITED OF C/O IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUM, DUXFORD AIRFIELD, CAMBRIDGE, CB22 4QR, ENGLAND («TFC» OR «WE») FOR THE «DCS WORLD» SOFTWARE PRODUCT («PROGRAM»), WHICH INCLUDES ALL SOFTWARE INCLUDED WITH THIS LICENCE, THE ASSOCIATED MEDIA, THE DATA SUPPLIED WITH IT, ANY PRINTED MATERIALS, AND ANY ONLINE OR ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTATION («DOCUMENTATION») AND ANY AND ALL COPIES AND DERIVATIVE WORKS OF SUCH SOFTWARE AND MATERIALS AND ARE THE COPYRIGHTED WORK.

 

BY INSTALLING THE PROGRAM AND CLICKING ON THE «ACCEPT» BUTTON BELOW, YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THIS LICENCE WITH TFC WHICH WILL BIND YOU. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS LICENCE, WE ARE UNWILLING TO LICENCE THE PROGRAM TO YOU AND YOU MUST NOT INSTALL THE PROGRAM.

 

EULA is a legal contract, is it legal to edit it out of nowhere ?

Edited November 7, 2016 by secret1962

[NineLine]

So there is not much of a proof, just a feeling.

 

No there was proof of exploitation. I was giving examples of what I had seen.

[DaOlaf]

Sorry for possibly multiple asked questions. What happens to users, who bought a key from a key store a long time and of course not knowing this could violate the EULA, because he didnt know or care about where these keys came from (reselling). But the Key still works perfectly fine. Could the regarding keys be banned some unlucky day?

[NineLine]

Sorry for possibly multiple asked questions. What happens to users, who bought a key from a key store a long time and of course not knowing this could violate the EULA, because he didnt know or care about where these keys came from (reselling). But the Key still works perfectly fine. Could the regarding keys be banned some unlucky day?

 

I havent heard anything like that being considered.

[CrimsonGhost]

TLDR- ED discovered a problem, fixed it and did not communicate it properly. This all could have been prevented by including a note in the weekly newsletter. Some time in the next "Two Weeks" ED will have a gifting system in place, and this will all go away.

[Force10]

It sure seems like the "many" are being punished from the actions of a "few". With no indication of how widespread this "abuse" was occurring...one would have to think it's relatively small in the overall scheme of things.

 

I'm not sure how the new gifting scheme will work...but I have to imagine it will be geared toward purchasing new (full price) modules to give to someone.

 

Is there any indication if you will be able to "gift" a module you are completely done with to someone that can use it under the new gift system?

[BIGNEWY]

No indication yet of how it will work. We will all have to wait to see what ED come up with.

[NineLine]

It sure seems like the "many" are being punished from the actions of a "few".

 

Not sure what you mean? How are you being "punished"? A better gifting system is being looked at, unless you were exploiting it, I don't see how its a "punishment". You could look at it from both sides too, a gifting system robs ED of a purchase as well. Is ED being "punished" by having a gift system in place if you give away a module you purchased and are done with? Of course not... heck I did it with a buddy I knew couldnt afford some of the modules he wanted right now... so get upset with ED if you like, but they are trying to put a system in place for the "many" because the "few" were reselling "many" (among other abuses).

[Force10]

Not sure what you mean? How are you being "punished"? A better gifting system is being looked at, unless you were exploiting it, I don't see how its a "punishment". You could look at it from both sides too, a gifting system robs ED of a purchase as well. Is ED being "punished" by having a gift system in place if you give away a module you purchased and are done with? Of course not... heck I did it with a buddy I knew couldnt afford some of the modules he wanted right now... so get upset with ED if you like, but they are trying to put a system in place for the "many" because the "few" were reselling "many" (among other abuses).

 

I mean it didn't seem widespread. You gave a specific example of the problem...when making a point one usually gives their best example and you said:

 

for example I saw a "review" youtube page that was borrowing a friends key so he could review on his monetized youtube videos...

 

A person that has violated the terms and "borrowed" a friends key to showcase a DCS product on his youtube page ...that could possibly lead to more sales...doesn't seem like a reason to hit the panic button and stop the majority of folks that were honoring the terms just fine.

 

There is a simmer that was going to give his modules that he is done with away for free...but can't now. It seems that a person that wants to show goodwill to his fellow flight simmers by giving away something he's paid for

is what I mean by "punish".

 

If the new gift system allows the above goodwill type of gestures to continue...then great.

[NineLine]

I mean it didn't seem widespread. You gave a specific example of the problem...when making a point one usually gives their best example and you said:

 

 

A person that has violated the terms and "borrowed" a friends key to showcase a DCS product on his youtube page ...that could possibly lead to more sales...doesn't seem like a reason to hit the panic button and stop the majority of folks that were honoring the terms just fine.

 

And how could you tell if it was widespread? Not sure how you could see if it was or wasnt. My example was purely from my point of view, tell help people see the types of things I saw. I dont know that ED needs to post every exploit incident.

 

There is a simmer that was going to give his modules that he is done with away for free...but can't now. It seems that a person that wants to show goodwill to his fellow flight simmers by giving away something he's paid for

is what I mean by "punish".

 

If the new gift system allows the above goodwill type of gestures to continue...then great.

 

 

Yes, I saw, he posted that after the key binding was suspended, a couple days I believe, acting like he didn't know... almost like he just wanted to start another inflammatory thread on a site full of them. Just my opinion though, I am sure I am wrong and he had the best intentions.

 

At any rate, there is no need for a fight. ED is looking at a better system that will work for all, and protect themselves as well. If you have something critical that you need answered or a key moved, you can try a support ticket to see if they can help you. Otherwise just stay calm and wait for the new system.