How to shoot down a Mirage?

[Ukr_Alex]

In canon only head on fight. Fast battle planner. I usualy have no problem killing an birds with AI on excelent, be it F16s, 18s, 15s, F5s F4s...

 

 

But any time I try to fight the mirage, I just cant get on his six....its like the is guy pulling cobras all the time, I just cant get onto his tail no mater what.

 

 

Is there a trick? Or the darn Frech AI at Excelent are calibrated to "Godlike" mode?

[Frostie]

I don't consider myself any good with guns ,but I don't have any trouble shooting down the Mirage on Exc. skill, usually in a scissors engagment catching him on the crossover. Getting on his six is not easy though.

[GGTharos]

Yes, there is a trick. Stop trying to turn with him. Once you get him low and slow, light the burners, make sure you got more speed and go up. From there you can drop right onto his six.

[Pilotasso]

How to beat a mirage 2000? you would need to have the F-16 as flyable. ;)

[Ukr_Alex]

Yes, there is a trick. Stop trying to turn with him. Once you get him low and slow, light the burners, make sure you got more speed and go up. From there you can drop right onto his six.

 

:thumbup: Thanks man, I'll try that.

[Scart]

There is one man (gys71) who has a great experience at shooting down the Mirage - ask him how - maybe he'll give you some tracks.

[Force_Feedback]

How to beat a mirage 2000? you would need to have the F-16 as flyable. ;)

 

And then what? Land, walk out of the aircraft, open the avoinics bay, get a hemmer, open the AoA limiter panel, and it's Hammer Time...

 

 

Seriousely, the F-16 is in no shape of fighting the M-2000, only if the mirage pilot is stupid enough to let the F-16 go up and away, but by that time it would have some holes to deal with. So we have the F-16 that can pull all it wants, but will get limited by the 20/24* aoa, or the M2000 that can do 40 with aoa limiter engaged, in a knife fight kinematics won't do it, not against the m2000 at least.

[Guard]

IMHO going vertical works great against any AI fighters.

Here are two tracks.

[Cosmonaut]

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?p=244285#post244285

[Pilotasso]

And then what? Land, walk out of the aircraft, open the avoinics bay, get a hemmer, open the AoA limiter panel, and it's Hammer Time...

 

 

Seriousely, the F-16 is in no shape of fighting the M-2000, only if the mirage pilot is stupid enough to let the F-16 go up and away, but by that time it would have some holes to deal with. So we have the F-16 that can pull all it wants, but will get limited by the 20/24* aoa, or the M2000 that can do 40 with aoa limiter engaged, in a knife fight kinematics won't do it, not against the m2000 at least.

 

The Mirage 2000 and the F-16 best each other by minimal margins in various scenarios. Mirage 2000 owning F-16? Hardly.

best pilot wins. You wouldnt have a better match for it in LOMAC.

 

BTW as a ground punder the falcon puts the mirage to shame.

[Force_Feedback]

I wasn't talking about ground pounding, yes the F-16 is best for multirole, but the mirage turns like crazy, but yes, in the end it comes down to the pilot. At airshows the M-2000 is the most impressive non-tvc fighter, it's almost scary what it can do, and all that without fancy high tech 'cheating', the F-16 on the other hand seems really 'limited' (not sluggish, but held back), and in knife fights having more freedom in the pitch axis makes dogfighting easier than in the F-16, where they have to account for the not so high angle of attack limits.

[Pilotasso]

I wasn't talking about ground pounding, yes the F-16 is best for multirole, but the mirage turns like crazy, but yes, in the end it comes down to the pilot. At airshows the M-2000 is the most impressive non-tvc fighter, it's almost scary what it can do, and all that without fancy high tech 'cheating', the F-16 on the other hand seems really 'limited' (not sluggish, but held back), and in knife fights having more freedom in the pitch axis makes dogfighting easier than in the F-16, where they have to account for the not so high angle of attack limits.

 

You got a wrong notion that Alngle of attack translates into speed of turn wich is wrong. The only reason why you see the mirage look like that at airshows its because its wing profile acts as a giant airbrake, making it look like it floats slowly. The F-16 is limited to 32 degrees AOA, curiously more than the normal limit of the mig-29. If you could put a mirage next an F-16 in hard turning you would see the mirage bleed speed faster and sink into higher AOA. The mirages instantaneous turn rate is higher but it quicly degenerates over time where the falcon will rule with the sustained rate.

Thanks to its higher T/W ratio the falcon has the edge in a climb fight too.

 

You didnt see some of the stuff the falcon can do. I seen it with my own eyes a falcon doing circles arround a tower near my howse at low speed, it almost looked like it was going to crash. AOA was at max and the speed I could exceed in my car.

[Force_Feedback]

Well, I actually once seen an F-16 doing such thing, and, to make it more dramatic, it had 2 fuel tanks as well, and I really thought it was going to crash (I've seen it from 1-1.5km away, so no close-up experiences :(), but it looked scary, the pilot rolled quite much, and did some turns, probably for the spotters, as it was a fuel stop or something. The thing was low (100m) and did some quite wild turns, with fuel tanks, it looked scary, very un-airshow like. So I was watching, thinking I'd get to see the ACESII in action...

Luckly I was wrong, but it sure looked impressive, even from that far away

[Ukr_Alex]

All I can say is that I have zero problems taking out the F16 AI (just the fact that its a small target to hit makes it a little tough) but Mirage I just cant...

 

But thanks for all the replies. Ill check out some of these tracks to see what I can learn.

 

 

 

Edit- Well I just gave the vertical a try and it sure works, but Im still loose 6/10 times. Now just need to perfect the technique but it sure works.

[Force_Feedback]

Hmm, strange, when I first got lomac (yaay I still remember it, weed hasn't affected my long term memory :P) I flew the su-33 against an excellent F-16, well, after lots of snapshots and scissors I ran out of fuel and had to ram the bastard, 'we' both ejected, but I got that F-16

[nscode]

I once tried to ram an AI.. I exploded and he continued flying without scratches :(

[RvEPaploo]

fighting a LIGHT mirage will improve your dogfighter skill for sure.

put 40 % on yer flanker and beetween 50 to 60 for the frog depend how hot you want it will be heheh.

 

But to be honest like with all plane you will meet try to not fly like a greedy monster and u ll catch his six as soon you can imagin ;)

 

Catch me online i ll help ya

PaP see ya soon

[Ukr_Alex]

Well I can proudly say that I am a certified Mirage killer now :P

 

Thanks to USSR_Gys71 I now just fight the mirage in the vertical.

 

 

Looks like the trick is to take the fight to very low altitudes, 100-400 meters.

 

From there I can some what keep a good turning fight with him while pulling on the stick as much as I can withouht droping below 360km/h. Eventualy after about 3 circles the mirage goes up and from there I can use that Su thrust to get close and send some led right up his pipe!

 

And I took Paploo's advice of not being a greedy bastard and took things down a notch and now I just kill the Mirage every time.

 

I think the reason why I was loosing up high is beacuse I would just loose sight of the mirage and I would never know where he is, limiting him to a low altitude I have much better SA and its much easier to send some bullets his way.

 

 

Thanks for all the advice guys!

[Ardillita]

Be carefull, IA flies in a much different way humans fly, don´t get used to this way of dogfight.

 

In a different scenario, vs a human enemy useing a fighter like the mirage, you wouldn´t want to be that low, specially because you would fight the mirage turn radius with maneovers like rolls, and you need some altitude to do that.

[Ukr_Alex]

Be carefull, IA flies in a much different way humans fly, don´t get used to this way of dogfight.

 

In a different scenario, vs a human enemy useing a fighter like the mirage, you wouldn´t want to be that low, specially because you would fight the mirage turn radius with maneovers like rolls, and you need some altitude to do that.

 

 

Very true, but I'm too shy to go online most of the time :( Dont want to be put to shame, so I try to look good against the AI :P

[HubMan]

Very true, but I'm too shy to go online most of the time :( Dont want to be put to shame, so I try to look good against the AI :P

You should probably try to get some gunzo time with Paploo though. He is very willing to help / teach people, even though he can't help himself and usually spanks you to death in the process :)

 

Flying 30min against him was the best way to realize that :

 

- I suck ;)

 

- it's not because you can easily beat the AI that you can pretend to do the same to human players. ;)

 

- a guns only environment is a lot different from a missile environment where you use your gun. The keys to survival are quite different... :)

 

- flying against the AI (99% of the time in my case) makes you use tactics that just won't work against a human player (merge in 1 circle slow fight is mostly useless...)

 

- human people use tactics that the AI will never use... tactics that are far more efficient by the way...

 

- if you want to progress really fast while having a good time (your ego will suffer, but who cares ? ;) ) get in touch with him :)

 

My two cents...

 

Hub.

 

PS : I made a short crappy video a while ago about a quick gunzo between a Su-27 and a M2000. If you wish, you can get it on google video here or on Patricks Aviation there... :)