The Harrier official campaign thread

[baltic_dragon]

Copy, like I said, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I never questioned the fun-factor of your work, so I'm sure it'll be worth a look, either way.

 

I have just been testing first mission of the M-2000C Red Flag Campaign, which is a prelude to what will happen in the SoH and found the detailed description of the situation. Please have a look and let me know what you think. Mind you, this is an alternative version of the history as we know it:

 

The Middle East is in turmoil once again. Nuclear talks with Iran over its atomic programme, which started in 2003 in the so-called E3 + 3 format ended with a total fiasco in December 2011, when Iranians expelled all IAEA inspectors from its territory and announced plans to further extend its uranium enrichment programme and to build additional centrifuge centres by the end of 2013.

 

In response to that and basing on UNSC resolution #1929, US and EU introduced further economic sanctions on Iran and tried to push for a new strongly - worded resolution through in the UN Security Council. This time, however, the text was blocked by Russia, with a Chinese abstention.

 

Western media brought stories about a secret deal between Moscow and Tehran, but such news were strongly denied by both sides. However, at the same time, Iran sent considerable forces into Syria, supporting Assad’s regime against the rebels and terrorist organisations, such as ISIS and Al-Quaeda. By March 2012 these were mostly pushed out of the country into neighbouring Iraq, placing great strain on local authorities and on all other states in the region, which terrorists began to infiltrate. In response to this new threat Israel increased its military presence in the Golan Heights, area bordering Syria and Lebanon, which in turn was strongly condemned by Iran and some of the Arab states.

 

In June 2012 a coup began in United Arab Emirates. A number of influential leaders, backed by parts of the military, tried to kill President Al Nahyan and take control of the country. While troops loyal to the government managed to repel the initial attacks, around 20% of the state is now in hands of the rebels. Political and military analysts had no doubts that the bloody takeover was orchestrated by Tehran, counting on direct access to UAE’ rich deposits of oil.

 

Against this backdrop and in preparation for another possible open conflict in the Middle East, US are organising the Red Flag, with the participation of France, Netherlands, Ukraine, Italy, Germany as well as United Kingdom.

 

French airmen were invited to play the role of UAE pilots, who for obvious reasons could not take part in the Red Flag exercises. Emirates air force is seen as an important ally in the upcoming conflict, even though some reports say that large part of their pilots took most advanced airplanes, the F-16s Block 60, and fled to Iran….

[CheckGear]

I have just been testing first mission of the M-2000C Red Flag Campaign, which is a prelude to what will happen in the SoH and found the detailed description of the situation. Please have a look and let me know what you think. Mind you, this is an alternative version of the history as we know it:

 

The Middle East is in turmoil once again. Nuclear talks with Iran over its atomic programme, which started in 2003 in the so-called E3 + 3 format ended with a total fiasco in December 2011, when Iranians expelled all IAEA inspectors from its territory and announced plans to further extend its uranium enrichment programme and to build additional centrifuge centres by the end of 2013.

 

In response to that and basing on UNSC resolution #1929, US and EU introduced further economic sanctions on Iran and tried to push for a new strongly - worded resolution through in the UN Security Council. This time, however, the text was blocked by Russia, with a Chinese abstention.

 

Western media brought stories about a secret deal between Moscow and Tehran, but such news were strongly denied by both sides. However, at the same time, Iran sent considerable forces into Syria, supporting Assad’s regime against the rebels and terrorist organisations, such as ISIS and Al-Quaeda. By March 2012 these were mostly pushed out of the country into neighbouring Iraq, placing great strain on local authorities and on all other states in the region, which terrorists began to infiltrate. In response to this new threat Israel increased its military presence in the Golan Heights, area bordering Syria and Lebanon, which in turn was strongly condemned by Iran and some of the Arab states.

 

In June 2012 a coup began in United Arab Emirates. A number of influential leaders, backed by parts of the military, tried to kill President Al Nahyan and take control of the country. While troops loyal to the government managed to repel the initial attacks, around 20% of the state is now in hands of the rebels. Political and military analysts had no doubts that the bloody takeover was orchestrated by Tehran, counting on direct access to UAE’ rich deposits of oil.

 

Against this backdrop and in preparation for another possible open conflict in the Middle East, US are organising the Red Flag, with the participation of France, Netherlands, Ukraine, Italy, Germany as well as United Kingdom.

 

French airmen were invited to play the role of UAE pilots, who for obvious reasons could not take part in the Red Flag exercises. Emirates air force is seen as an important ally in the upcoming conflict, even though some reports say that large part of their pilots took most advanced airplanes, the F-16s Block 60, and fled to Iran….

 

Compelling backstory, life-like chain of political events, despite being alternate history, and definitely has that "storm on the horizon" feel to it. Be sure to have a snippet about the French pilots going to the Las Vegas Strip to blow off some steam before the war! :drink:

 

I take it this campaign's going to feature the same "characters" who'll be featured in the SoH campaign to come?

 

One unrelated note - one reason I think any SoH campaign ought to take place in the present or near-future is because the amount of advanced weaponry the Gulf states are purchasing. They're buying nearly every advanced platform and weapon in the American, British, French, and Russian arsenal. Even if they're not playable, it'd be awesome to see these campaigns unfold with the world's most advanced weaponry at play in one, relatively small, theater.

Edited November 11, 2017 by CheckGear

[ghostdog688]

Hey folks,

 

 

 

I've talked to Prowler and decided to surface the idea, or rather a poll, here for you to help us decide where to place the campaign. As some of you probably know I will be doing first the training and then the normal, full - length campaign for the Harrier.

 

 

 

Now my idea is to do the training more in a form of a campaign than just standard training missions, which will be linked with the combat one that will follow some time after. This is a very early stage, as I don't want to start working on anything substantial until the plane is in an advanced and stable stage to avoid having to redo or upgrade things. Still, I'll let this poll run for several months to see what the general feeling is.

 

 

 

So, the question is simple - in which theatre would you prefer to have the training and the main campaign:

 

 

 

A) Both training and campaign in Caucasus

 

B) Training in Nevada and campaign in Caucasus

 

C) Both training and campaign in Nevada (so another Red Flag)

 

 

 

Also, if any of you is interested in helping with the campaign (mainly in the form of VOs, but I'd also welcome any experience and knowledge about the Harriers) please let me know here or via PM.

 

 

 

Appreciate the feedback!

 

 

 

BD

 

 

 

Well

I’ve done VO for you in the past. I’d be happy to offer again

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spudknocker]

There will be training done for both NTTR and Caucasus with the module

 

Are these the interactive tutorial type training missions? If so thanks a ton for making an NTTR set! That will be awesome! Will they be available for the early access?

 

Also on the campaign front I see one hole in the storyline... the UAE has a vast majority of Sunni muslims whereas Iran is mostly Shia Muslims which dont exactly get along, which for me doesn't seem plausible that Emerati pilots would defect to Iran. Also will we have a block 60 Ai F-16 in the future?

 

Just a thought, because Iran already has a plethora of western aircraft F-5's, F-4E's, F-14AM's what if you complemented them with a backdoor gift of Flankers from Russia or China or more advanced fulcrums than their MiG-29A's from Russia.

 

In the red flag campaign you could have Turkish or Greek (or German since its alternate history) F-4 squadrons be invited to act as aggressors simulating Iranian F-4's

 

Also what would you think about having F-16's F-5's and F-15's in aggressor paint be the bad guys in the red flag campaign instead of actual Su-27's and MiG-29's to add to the realism. Thats kinda been a pet peeve of mine in the F-15 Red Flag campaign

[baltic_dragon]

Hey Spudknocker, thanks for your comments. So:

 

1) Yes, fully interactive and voice over in a form on actual missions rather than simple tasks.

2) Missions will be split, basic ones in NTTR, more advanced in Caucasus (to utilize LHAs etc)

3) Not in EA, to build a proper mission I need all of the major thing fully functional. I want to make them comprehensive so I need to wait at least for advanced Beta for most (for instance I need fully working radios)

4) As for the campaign - rifts in the Muslim world are much deeper than just the Sunni - Shia split. For instance Syria, backed so strongly by Iran is 75% Sunni. Qatar, which now is under diplomatic embargo by Egypt, Saudis and UAE for backing terrorism and close ties with Iran is... Sunni. And UAE is a buch of different califates and emirates which are different and more than 10-15% is Shia, enough to start an uprising. So I think this scenario could be possible.

5) The Red Flag is almost ready so too late to change anything. Us still has enough of F4s to play the role and they have invited Ukrainians with MiG-29s, Su-24s and 25s to join the Agressors for this one. Again, think that it would make a lot of sense :)

 

Cheers!

[baltic_dragon]

Well

I’ve done VO for you in the past. I’d be happy to offer again

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Great! Many thanks!!! :) will be in touch!

[CheckGear]

4) As for the campaign - rifts in the Muslim world are much deeper than just the Sunni - Shia split. For instance Syria, backed so strongly by Iran is 75% Sunni. Qatar, which now is under diplomatic embargo by Egypt, Saudis and UAE for backing terrorism and close ties with Iran is... Sunni. And UAE is a buch of different califates and emirates which are different and more than 10-15% is Shia, enough to start an uprising. So I think this scenario could be possible.

 

It's very true that the Shia-Sunni divide isn't the only thing fueling Middle East hostilities. That being said, most estimates round off the percentage of Shia in the UAE as 15%. Just as laying all the problems in the region at the feet of the Shia-Sunni divide is overly simplistic, saying the percentage of Shia in the UAE is "enough to start an uprising" is an even greater oversimplification. Of this 15%, only a certain percentage is going to be able to put up a resistance and an even smaller percentage is going to be willing to do it. That makes the number of Shia capable of causing mayhem very small.

 

I, personally, didn't make too big a deal out of this because you're presenting an alternate reality and I thought you could use a break from all the fact-checking. :) But even for an alternate reality, the idea of an uprising in the UAE and defections in the UAE Armed Forces to Iran is incredibly far-fetched, especially the relatively well-assimilated nature of Shia Muslims in the country. It's far more likely to see this happen in Bahrain or even Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, neither country appears in the map.

 

If you insist on the UAE instability storyline, I'd suggest you remove the coup and replace it with a wave of extremism and terrorism that sweeps through the UAE due to intrusions by groups like Hezbollah, or at least have the coup precipitated by the carnage wrought by Shia extremism. That'd work much better.

[baltic_dragon]

It's very true that the Shia-Sunni divide isn't the only thing fueling Middle East hostilities. That being said, most estimates round off the percentage of Shia in the UAE as 15%. Just as laying all the problems in the region at the feet of the Shia-Sunni divide is overly simplistic, saying the percentage of Shia in the UAE is "enough to start an uprising" is an even greater oversimplification. Of this 15%, only a certain percentage is going to be able to put up a resistance and an even smaller percentage is going to be willing to do it. That makes the number of Shia capable of causing mayhem very small.

 

I, personally, didn't make too big a deal out of this because you're presenting an alternate reality and I thought you could use a break from all the fact-checking. :) But even for an alternate reality, the idea of an uprising in the UAE and defections in the UAE Armed Forces to Iran is incredibly far-fetched, especially the relatively well-assimilated nature of Shia Muslims in the country. It's far more likely to see this happen in Bahrain or even Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, neither country appears in the map.

 

If you insist on the UAE instability storyline, I'd suggest you remove the coup and replace it with a wave of extremism and terrorism that sweeps through the UAE due to intrusions by groups like Hezbollah, or at least have the coup precipitated by the carnage wrought by Shia extremism. That'd work much better.

 

Yup, might as well do, good idea. The outline of the storyline is well.. just an outline :) I didn't go too deep into research for details, I will once I get to work on the SoH map. But I like that explanation, might as well change it already for the Red Flag. Thanks!

[CheckGear]

Yup, might as well do, good idea. The outline of the storyline is well.. just an outline :) I didn't go too deep into research for details, I will once I get to work on the SoH map. But I like that explanation, might as well change it already for the Red Flag. Thanks!

 

Just imagine a terrorist attack at one of those Abu Dhabi or Dubai mega-malls or even at the Burj Khalifa. Then you've got a real epic story! :thumbup:

 

This is more for your information, but here's an interesting article from last year talking about how the British are bolstering their presence in the Gulf region after decades of decline. Definitely gives you a sense a storm is gathering.

 

http://warisboring.com/is-britain-staging-a-comeback-in-the-persian-gulf/

 

And here's another piece talking about the increasing significance of the UAE, particularly with regards to the U.S.:

 

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/is-the-united-arab-emirates-americas-best-friend-in-middle-east-281bd5c38ed5

[Redglyph]

Combat Air Patrol 2 actually has some real good graphics. Nothing beats DCS, though.

 

IL2 BoS does (and wait for their release this month!), but graphics aren't everything, I like the kind of equilibrium we have in DCS regarding the different features and great aircraft.

 

I wasn't tempted by CAP, it looked really more an arcade than a sim, just a matter of personal preference of course, could be fun sometimes.

[CheckGear]

IL2 BoS does (and wait for their release this month!), but graphics aren't everything, I like the kind of equilibrium we have in DCS regarding the different features and great aircraft.

 

I wasn't tempted by CAP, it looked really more an arcade than a sim, just a matter of personal preference of course, could be fun sometimes.

 

DCS isn't an equilibrium - it's the best of everything!

 

Since the release of LOMAC back in 2003, there hasn't been a challenger to ED. Currently, that amounts to a monopoly in the combat flight sim genre and that's perfectly fine by me! :thumbup:

[IanHx2]

Ideal campaign ? That would be Kandahar AFB on an Afghanistan map..... guess SoH is the closest we're going to get to that for now :(

[Deadpoetic6]

Isnt it dumb having Training in Nevada and campaign in Caucasus, forcing players to buy the other map for training?

[sze5003]

Isnt it dumb having Training in Nevada and campaign in Caucasus, forcing players to buy the other map for training?

We are a long way away from them anyway. My understanding is that Nevada may offer better training opportunities and besides all harrier systems must be functional if there are to be missions like all the rest he has done.

 

By that time, like I said will be a while so there is still time to figure out where they will go.

[Redglyph]

Isnt it dumb having Training in Nevada and campaign in Caucasus, forcing players to buy the other map for training?

 

That was my first reaction, exactly :)

 

But it may not be simple if we want a realistic campaign, and / or if we want to use a carrier during the campaign, which is harder to justify or at least more easily optional in the training programme (though I know those pilots usually spend a few days on a carrier to train specific operations).

 

No carrier in Nevada, and perhaps fewer opportunities for a campaign, except maybe a Red Flag but we already have it for the A-10C, the F-15C and the M-2000C.

 

A training in Caucasus and a campaign in Strait of Hormuz, on the other hand, could be an interesting option? I have no idea when we'll have SOH, but probably soon enough for such a campaign.

 

Though as sze5003 said, NTTR is a nice environment for a training. Sure I'd not force users to purchase NTTR - at least for the training missions, but who doesn't have it yet anyway? It's part of practically all DCS deals.

[sze5003]

I think the best option and of course up to Baltic and devs to decide based on what they have available to build. Campaign in straight of Hormuz and training in caucus.

 

If there is time and a need, a red flag similar to A10 or M2000C can be done in NTTR. I like NTTR because for me it looks better in VR, performs a bit better at least on my rig, and I can set up several test tracks quickly where I'm not straining myself to find the enemy like in the Caucas map when I want to run a test misison really quickly.

 

But it is true most people do have NTTR by now. The only map I don't have is Normandy since I don't fly the older aircraft.

[Johnny Dioxin]

CAP 2 terrain graphics? Don't make me laugh - I just got a refund on that because I considered it well below par.

 

I mentioned before but again as it was a while ago - imho training should definitely take place on a map available to everyone without extra expense - that's Caucasus (and maybe we have hides by then....)

 

The campaign can go anywhere afaic, though I think the Hormuz map - if released and stable by then - would be my preference. I have all the Red Flag campaigns so far, and will get the M2k one, but I really don't want yet another one after that, personally.

[Ventus_Clu]

Personally, I believe the training should be in NTTR and a campaign in Caucasus. Immersion would be greatly improved if it were this way. But again just my opinion.

[Redglyph]

If there is time and a need, a red flag similar to A10 or M2000C can be done in NTTR. I like NTTR because for me it looks better in VR, performs a bit better at least on my rig, and I can set up several test tracks quickly where I'm not straining myself to find the enemy like in the Caucas map when I want to run a test misison really quickly.

 

But it is true most people do have NTTR by now. The only map I don't have is Normandy since I don't fly the older aircraft.

 

Yes, it's nice in NTTR. On the other hand, the revamped Caucasus is on its way too, and it will be pretty.

But NTTR makes for more variety when combined with another terrain.

 

CAP 2 terrain graphics? Don't make me laugh - I just got a refund on that because I considered it well below par.

 

I mentioned before but again as it was a while ago - imho training should definitely take place on a map available to everyone without extra expense - that's Caucasus (and maybe we have hides by then....)

 

The campaign can go anywhere afaic, though I think the Hormuz map - if released and stable by then - would be my preference. I have all the Red Flag campaigns so far, and will get the M2k one, but I really don't want yet another one after that, personally.

 

On the principle, what you said makes a lot of sense and I think that it would be unfair too. But again, are you sure there are many people without NTTR?

 

Which one do you feel is like CAP 2 graphics?

[DZShizzam]

Wait, I'm confused. Can somebody summarize all of Baltic Dragons upcoming campaigns, the module they are for, and the map they will be on?

 

I know that he is making a Harrier campaing (for SoH?), and a Mirage Red Flag on NTTR. Any others I'm missing? I think another A-10C campaign was in the works?

[baltic_dragon]

Hey guys,

 

To summarize / react to what has been said above:

 

A) TRAINING

I completely understand those who don’t want to buy a new map to get a training. On the other hand I really would like to give the training at least some degree of realism, for which I need the NTTR. There soon will be a separate sticky post where I will get into more details, but I plan to release the training both in Nevada and Caucasus. They will be similar, but not the same and to get full experience you will need both. But each one of them should be sufficient to get all the basics. And carrier ops will be in Caucasus.

 

B) CAMPAIGN

First one will be in Caucasus, I already have a good setting prepared and a lot of ideas. I also have great people lined up to help with the VOs and realism (some of them former or active duty USMC) and I am very excited about it! This will have around 16-18 sorties and will be a DLC.

 

C) OTHER PROJECTS

Red Flag campaign for M2K is almost ready and I should move on to slow work on Harrier training around Christmas.

 

Iron Flag - a very comprehensive training for A-10C in NTTR is under way after a few months of pause for family and personal reasons. Now we are back on track with it.

 

There is also Crimson Dawn project - A-10C campaign in Caucasus which is more than 50% done and share the same setting as the Harrier campaign. I will be working on it slowly in spare time.

[sze5003]

I will be off that whole week of Christmas if you need VO's or to test some training missions :).

 

I pretty much taught myself the harrier from the pocket book as did lots of others.

[Sephyrius]

Wish it was possible to lock/link maps to specific campaigns so that that maps wouldn't create these kind of community splits depending on who owns what. It's no wonder why people would get quite annoyed if campaigns became map-exclusive.

 

If that had been possible, the Strait of Hormuz map would've been awesome for the campaign.

 

And personally I've been flying in Normandy far more than Nevada just because it feels more right.

[baltic_dragon]

Wish it was possible to lock/link maps to specific campaigns so that that maps wouldn't create these kind of community splits depending on who owns what. It's no wonder why people would get quite annoyed if campaigns became map-exclusive.

.

 

Yeah. But honestly, keeping doing stuff mainly for Caucasus because it is the only free map kinda misses the point when we are getting more and more cool environments to play with... even though the Caucasus offers quite a lot of possibilities. I am very much looking forward to SoH - and would love to get Afghanistan at one point in the future...

[fergrim]

I have 5 of the study quality modules, but I only have caucuses because I enjoy that environment.

 

At what point, exactly, should I expect to be made to spend another 50 on top of the 400 I've already spent in order to get ten minutes of instruction regarding how to operate this 70 dollar module?

 

There has to be a better way to communicate these things to the consumer. I can easily read about any requirements for a campaign (requires such and such map) but the modules don't inform us that we should expect no tutorial content for a module that is 100x more complex than a normal game.

 

I'm fine with having to try hard to learn, but getting told I haven't spent enough yet when I'm only here after having spent 70 dollars. That's just rough.

 

The community would much more easily be able to enjoy these maps perhaps if the maps didn't incur the same charge as the game itself. I can't imagine that the benefit of removing the hurdle of high price maps would be outweighed by the harm of revenue lost. It's only the biggest spenders of the biggest spenders that go that far.

 

Sorry i just am loving getting into this community and I constantly feel on the verge of becoming unwelcome if I don't fork over drug dealer quantities of cash. It's frustrating because I don't have any extra money left, I spent it all on DCS modules and I read this thread to find out that I'm silly to expect to find content for the map that comes with the game.

 

I argue, debate and explain to people why each module should be the price of a full game, but perhaps throwing the customer one tiny bone in the form of maps would help DCS avoid the fate of the airlines who despite being a government subisidized necessity still loss business and garnered hatred from consumers for their insistence on charging them separately and repetitively for non-optional aspects of their service.

 

And I'm sorry for venting here, I'm not angry with anyone in particular and Dragon I love your work and I know this time around you made it for both caucus and nttr and I REALLY appreciate that, I can't tell you how much, I really do, thank you. And it's because I love your work that I just saw your words and got so overwhelmed. I'm all tapped out but I don't want to miss out.

 

Perhaps DCS should make it a requirement of their third party developers to include a functional tutorial in the caucuses, and a campaign if we want to be serious about quality and customer satisfaction, to avoid new people joining the community only to feel like there were large hidden fees.

 

Outside of our little bubble of aerospace love it's really hard to explain to other gamers why all the expense is worth it, maybe there's a good way to start trading in some of the expense for increased volume of customers.

Edited April 7, 2018 by fergrim