crudboy12 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I can't seem safely land the F-5e with 2 sidewinders and gun ammo on a 2km runway without using my chute. I touch down at around 160 knots; and deploy spoilers and start braking immediately. I cannot safely bring the plane to a stop at the end of the runway. If I brake too hard, it skids, but that even doesn't slow it down fast enough. Is this realistic? The jet can take off really quickly, but to land on many of the runways in DCS, I have to use the chute. It seems to me like the F-5 should stop a lot faster then it does, at the moment the jet feels like it is on ice. Judging from the other American jets in the game, such as the F-86 and A-10, the ground handling is way off. (Yes I know, these aircraft have ABS) I did some research and could not find a definitive answer (one guy claimed 10,000 ft was pushing it), but with all the different versions people don't always seem to agree on how much space was needed to land. http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-483208.html Has anyone else explored this topic? I love the jet, but this has always bothered me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Highway Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 did you try pumping the brakes? gotta drive it like a car with no ABS. Get as much stopping power as you can and if it starts to skid, let off and then reapply pressure right up to the skidding point. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg Combat Vet, Couch Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Highway Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 just to test it, i loaded up the f5 take off mission, accelerated to 160 kts, then aborted the takeoff and was able to stop before reaching the end of the runway, no chute. I just cut throttle and then stabbed the brakes repeatedly until it stopped. And I wasnt able to reach 160 till about halfway down the run way, so a normal landing would be no problem. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg Combat Vet, Couch Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmerdylan Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I can't seem safely land the F-5e with 2 sidewinders and gun ammo on a 2km runway without using my chute. I touch down at around 160 knots; and deploy spoilers and start braking immediately. I cannot safely bring the plane to a stop at the end of the runway. If I brake too hard, it skids, but that even doesn't slow it down fast enough. Is this realistic? The jet can take off really quickly, but to land on many of the runways in DCS, I have to use the chute. It seems to me like the F-5 should stop a lot faster then it does, at the moment the jet feels like it is on ice. Judging from the other American jets in the game, such as the F-86 and A-10, the ground handling is way off. (Yes I know, these aircraft have ABS) I did some research and could not find a definitive answer (one guy claimed 10,000 ft was pushing it), but with all the different versions people don't always seem to agree on how much space was needed to land. http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-483208.html Has anyone else explored this topic? I love the jet, but this has always bothered me. Sometimes explaining how I do something isn't very easy even though I can do it quite well. I had similar problems when I first started with the F-5. I had to use the chute every time. Braking seemed like it was a real problem. Nut just like all of the modules in DCS, once you get the jest of it, it becomes second nature. I touch down around 150, but this depends on my load but I never hit the runway slower than that and not very much faster. If you flare right at the end of the runway and you are doing 175 or so, you'll slow to 150 pretty quickly and the plane just sets itself down pretty handily. From there it all about applying wheel breaks steadily, applying more or less on one or the other depending on the sway of the aircraft. I never give it full brakes. Maybe 3/4 or so. If I remember correctly, I have about +10% curve set on my wheel brakes to make it easier to slow down without them grabbing too much. I know that everyone is different and a lot of guys have their way of doing it, but this is what works well for me. Hope I helped just a little bit. :smilewink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crudboy12 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 did you try pumping the brakes? gotta drive it like a car with no ABS. Get as much stopping power as you can and if it starts to skid, let off and then reapply pressure right up to the skidding point. I normally apply as much pressure as I can without skidding. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crudboy12 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 just to test it, i loaded up the f5 take off mission, accelerated to 160 kts, then aborted the takeoff and was able to stop before reaching the end of the runway, no chute. I just cut throttle and then stabbed the brakes repeatedly until it stopped. And I wasnt able to reach 160 till about halfway down the run way, so a normal landing would be no problem. I can stop the jet by doing this, but my runway is covered with skid marks. Every time I "stab" the breaks the wheels lock up and leave a skid mark. I have been trying to stop by applying partial break pressure for the whole run. Possibly I need to apply more pressure. I have flown a fair bit of the jet, but I just use the chute most times, so perhaps it is worth playing around with more. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crudboy12 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 The axis on my brakes was messed up. It was a case of almost all the break pressure being applied at the same time due to the curve on it. I fixed this and I can stop on the runway without skidding if I am careful. I guess it is something the needs practice. Thanks for the help! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Highway Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Glad you got it sorted out YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vsd0o5MT4FGzkWjaEucVg Combat Vet, Couch Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle7907 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The axis on my brakes was messed up. It was a case of almost all the break pressure being applied at the same time due to the curve on it. I fixed this and I can stop on the runway without skidding if I am careful. I guess it is something the needs practice. Thanks for the help! I'm having the same issue as well as A10C brakes applying instantly when a curve is used. Did you have to stop using a curve for brake axis? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter97 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I was lucky to see Spanish F5's landing, they use chute 24/7 if they want a smooth arrival. So I use it 24/7 as well, braking should be done later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle7907 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Funny, I watch T38s landing day and night but never see them use a chute. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) T-38 is, depending on the configuration, 25% to 50% lighter than F-5 and most of them are not equipped with brake chutes. That being said, different armies can have different procedures regarding use of brake chutes, the original manual states that the chute is for emergency, it should be possible to safely stop the aircraft using brakes only. I also find F-5 braking performance quite poor in DCS. I did a few tests and reported a bug: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191996 Edited August 11, 2017 by some1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cicimicikiller Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) I am just curious, why don't you want to use the chute for landing? It's there for a reason. One of the reasons is that F5 does not have antiskid, another is that brakes are weak and the third one is that it is easier to repack the chute than it is to replace the brake pads. As I mentioned in another thread, I live near a base where Mig29s are stationed. They have pretty long runway and thay for sure can stop using only brakes, yet they always use the chute. EDIT: Only hints for braking without chute that i can give you are these: 1. Try to aero brake as long as you can (keep your nosewheel up) 2. Make sure your airbrakes are extended 3. When I tested the braking with F5, I found it to be better with threshold braking, not pumping the brakes, just be careful not to lock up. Edited August 11, 2017 by cicimicikiller Smash 1-1 | Hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figaro9 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Swiss F5, although they are equipped with anti skid, use always the chute on 2km runways for full stop(except on wet conditions) .It is a safety item. Nobody wants a jet runing in the barrier only for testing breaking skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitrischal Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 The rearm/refuel packs the parachute again. It was patched quite some time ago. No reason not to use it. Try to stay off the brakes until the latest reasonable moment. On real planes excessive use of the brakes lead to brake overheat and even burst plugs on the tyres or brake fires. USAF are in the process of modernizing the brake assemblies on the b52 fleet after this https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/air-force-mechanical-failures-led-to-b-52-aborted-takeoff-fire-in-2016-guam-incident-1.465157#.WY1qMNG_xvI Stay off the brakes and use every means in your disposal to stop. Not only the brakes. If you want to stop without a parachute just for the fun of it use full speed brakes, aerodynamic braking and tuck under during the final to land as near as possible to the threshold. Then maintain brake pressure without skiding. I'm not sure if dcs reproduces brakes temperatures or type wear though so it's not too realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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