Viggen viability in multiplayer

[Mezelf]

I'm still learning about the Viggen (and DCS in general), but the more I read about it the more it seems to me that the only way to effectively use the Viggen on ground targets is to plan the whole mission before even getting into the cockpit.

 

• You have to fly extremely low to the ground to evade both ground and airborne radar, which means you can't just approach an general combat area and pick out targets. There is absolutely no time to look around when you're flying 30ft above ground, dodging terrain.
  

 

• You have to know exactly where your target is, what threats are in the area and how to avoid them. Some multiplayer servers do have JTAC units, while some servers only give you a vague zone on the map where ground targets can be found. Maybe if you're lucky there's a Warthog in the area in communication with you willing to act as some kind of airborne spotter, but personally I'd feel more like I'm being a burden.
  

 

• Because in multiplayer you have no access to the editor, you can't easily make a flight plan by clicking on the map to make waypoints and inserting it into your cartridge at start-up. Instead you have to either: forego a flightplan and wing it (contradicting the whole planning philosophy of the Viggen) OR: you have to look on your map, write down coordinates, input them into your computer, hope you didn't make an input mistake and then hope against hope that you don't get shot down on the way by an all-seeing F15, forcing you to repeat the whole process which takes atleast a while.
  The same is true for the RB75 anti-ship weapons, which has a unique system of using a descent point, turning point, target point and self-destruct point which can be set by coordinates input, mission editor waypoints or through the surface radar (the least ideal method).
  

 

• And finally I feel like the Viggen's biggest strength, destroying ships, is either forgotten about, ignored or unimportant in most multiplayer matches. Literally nobody cares when you shoot down a ship in multiplayer, and I understand why because ships just don't do anything in multiplayer. They're only a threat to other airplanes that try to fly over or something. They don't shoot artillery into aerodromes. They're just target practice, really.
  

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something? I like the Viggen a lot, but I never use it in multiplayer because of these reasons. I don't like making my own missions because that seems very daunting, and there's no campaign yet so my favourite module is just collecting dust.

[OnlyforDCS]

Are the servers out there running Viggen specific missions?

[dimitrischal]

This is partly because ground attack was dominated but the A10/Su25T/KA50 trio which are CAS aircraft designed to loiter over an area and pick vehicle targets.

So no real strike missions almost anywhere in multiplayer. Most servers have actually gone as far as placing the target areas behind friendly lines so no one can bother the cas boys something that doesn't make sense at all.

Even then there are no targets to attack besides scattered vehicles something the viggen can't do very well.

I guess we have to wait for the general mentality to change, the new modules coming out will help in that regard.

As far as ships go you are right. There are interesting thing for ships to do I dcs but I haven't seen any real implementations either....

Don't forget that the viggen was meant to be used in less than optimal weather flying very low. It was also equipped with powerful jammers capable to protect the whole flight and countermeasure pods that could saturate whole areas With chaff and flares, both of these cannot function in dcs as they were meant to.

In real life the viggen is an interceptors nightmare.

Edited June 30, 2017 by dimitrischal

[AbortedMan]

Find the coordinates of a target in a persistent server like Blue Flag (by any means necessary) and the Viggen is a real threat. I have a notepad file that's full of coordinates from past sorties that I reference to create calibration points, targets, and flight plans. Bind the keypad in your cockpit to the number pad on your keyboard and you can have everything entered in less than a minute if you have any ten-key typing skills.

 

Most sorties I fly I don't even get locked by even the most dangerous SAMs due to flying so low and fast. It's calibrating nav radar and battling nav drift that usually spoils my objective being completed.

[OnlyforDCS]

Find the coordinates of a target in a persistent server like Blue Flag (by any means necessary) and the Viggen is a real threat. I have a notepad file that's full of coordinates from past sorties that I reference to create calibration points, targets, and flight plans. Bind the keypad in your cockpit to the number pad on your keyboard and you can have everything entered in less than a minute if you have any ten-key typing skills.

 

Most sorties I fly I don't even get locked by even the most dangerous SAMs due to flying so low and fast. It's calibrating nav radar and battling nav drift that usually spoils my objective being completed.

 

This is a very good and informative post. Thanks AbortedMan. What kind of targets do you usually pick on BlueFlag and how do you get the coordinates? Related to that question what weapons do you choose? Im usually in favor of something that can take out the target in one pass.

[Rudel_chw]

how do you get the coordinates?

 

What I do is join the MP Server and start to play the mission ... then a track file is created on my PC ... this track file actually contains the mission in a format that its compatible with the mission editor. Here is a video that shows how its done:

 

s3G5NsVjH7k

 

Then I exit the Server and open the mission on DCS Editor and take note of the coordinates of targets that seem interesting, also coordinates of points that I can use as navigation fixes en route.

 

Afterwards I can rejoin the MP server and create an appropiate flight plan using the CK37 keypad ... for faster input I've bound my numpad keys into the CK37 keys (using LSHIFT + #).

 

Here is another video that shows how to input a flight plan when you are seated in the Viggen's cockpit:

 

Yub8f03dr9U

 

Best regards.

[probad]

it seems to me that the only way to effectively use the Viggen on ground targets is to plan the whole mission before even getting into the cockpit.

this is how air forces work in reality. opening day is always a carefully choreographed affair for fast jets.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something? I like the Viggen a lot, but I never use it in multiplayer because of these reasons. I don't like making my own missions because that seems very daunting, and there's no campaign yet so my favourite module is just collecting dust.

you totally still can fly the viggen ad-hoc if you want to. if the area is safe enough for a-10s, then it's generally (some disclaimers here) safe enough for you too. the viggen can go fast, but it's built for short field takeoff so it's not going to fall out of the sky when you go slow.

 

there's a lot of ways to enjoy your favorite aircraft, the obstacles are usually in your own head.

[OnlyforDCS]

Well now, that never occurred to me Rudel_vhw. Thanks a lot for your reply.

[Home Fries]

Getting back to the OP's questions, the answer to the viability of the Viggen is: it depends on the mission and the mission designer.

 

Unlike CAS birds, the Viggen was designed for deep strikes: go low, go fast, make a single pass on a pre-briefed target, and get out fast. The only thing in common with the CAS mission is A/G weapons. You may need to use the radar to get a last minute fix on the target prior to dropping weapons, but other than that everything is planned to a T prior to engine start.

 

The Viggen has room for 9 waypoints, so there's no expectation that every turn in a valley will be specified. Big changes such as altitude changes, fix points, and major legs should be waypoints, and ideally they should be described in the ME (so they show up on the kneeboard) and detailed in the briefing. Then you can look at the kneeboard and figure out the best way to get between waypoints and just use the HUD and banana bars for general cueing if you're flying NOE in a valley.

 

Finally, the nature of deep strike means that Viggens probably won't be operating near the FEBA (where you'll find ground battles, helos and CAS birds). This may make it a challenge for the Viggen to play with the main focus of a mission. This is a challenge for the mission designer, and unfortunately sometimes the Viggen is assigned a CAS role for which it is ill suited. Viggens can do CAS in a limited fashion (they attack and RTB without loitering), but they're better served performing something like OCA against an airfield or FARP to perform interdiction.

 

Hope this helps.

[joey45]

Unless the mission is designed with the appropriate airframes in mind specific role aircraft will have trouble. As DCS evlovles this will get more difficult.

[QuiGon]

This is a very good and informative post. Thanks AbortedMan. What kind of targets do you usually pick on BlueFlag and how do you get the coordinates? Related to that question what weapons do you choose? Im usually in favor of something that can take out the target in one pass.

 

I'm pretty much using the Viggen the same way AbortedMan does, also in BlueFlag. The coordinates of enemy bases are shown on the BluFlag real time map. I usally attack FARPs or airfields where a lot of enemies are to be expected. I use the F10 mapo to figure out a route and put the coordinates for important turns into the nav computer to create a nav route. At first I used Snakeyeye bombs and dropped them on a very low overfly which sometimes worked, but often failed. You have to stay VERY low and fast to not be killed. I then switched to using BK90s which offer some stand off capability. So I know approach the enemy base low and fast using terrain to hide and then, when close enough I do a short climb, drop the BK90s and haul ass. This way I have some success. For example, I once managed to kill 3 enemy players that were starting up or taxiing on an airbase.

[Home Fries]

I then switched to using BK90s which offer some stand off capability. So I know approach the enemy base low and fast using terrain to hide and then, when close enough I do a short climb, drop the BK90s and haul ass.

 

Awesome! I wasn't aware that the Bk90 multiplayer bug was fixed. Glad to hear it!

[Home Fries]

Bind the keypad in your cockpit to the number pad on your keyboard and you can have everything entered in less than a minute if you have any ten-key typing skills.

Good call. I bound my keypad to the CK37 keypad, / and * to the Data in/out switch, numbers across the top for the B-waypoints, and PGUP/PGDN for LS/LMAL. Works great.

[QuiGon]

Awesome! I wasn't aware that the Bk90 multiplayer bug was fixed. Glad to hear it!

Well, it's more a workaround than a fix. The Bk90 in multiplayer is a different one than in singleplayer. In multiplayer it's just a giant bomb, while in singleplayer it's a cluster munition dispenser.

[Mezelf]

-snip-

 

Thank you for this. This should significantly improve my effectiveness in mp. Also that numpad key shortcut is genius, yet so obvious.

 

Would it be possible to open the .miz file (previously .trk) in a different client (the beta client) and alt-tab between the released version (while still in that same mp server) and the beta client mission editor?

[Rudel_chw]

Thank you for this. This should significantly improve my effectiveness in mp. Also that numpad key shortcut is genius, yet so obvious.

 

 

You are welcome :) ... I use those techniques when using the Viggen on the Server of our MP Squadron (Spain's http://www.universo-lf.net/ ) and they have served me well.

 

 

 

Would it be possible to open the .miz file (previously .trk) in a different client (the beta client) and alt-tab between the released version (while still in that same mp server) and the beta client mission editor?

 

 

Probably yes, tough you will need a hefty PC to be able to run both instances at the same time.

Best Regards.