Mirage 2000C Update this week?

Esac_mirmidon · July 13, 2017

Not again this discussion please.

When Razbam get the Mirage updated in any DCS version we will know and enjoy it. Until then please just flight the Mirage as it is now.

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

Hi,

Could you tell us what are the missing systems you are referring to?

I find the Mirage pretty neat the way it is now.

Well maybe more like functions on a system : CP/PD, DO/RDO and TEL. DO/RDO isn't confirmed but would nice to have and the last one was never used and will probably never be implemented.

Except the FM bug, mostly minor and esthetics bugs are left. :)

Edited July 13, 2017 by Rex854Warrior

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

Not again this discussion please.

When Razbam get the Mirage updated in any DCS version we will know and enjoy it. Until then please just flight the Mirage as it is now.

Couldn't agree with you more :)

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

Are you sure?
Cause I'm not. :smartass:

Well tell me then ^^. I thought it was only at low speeds / high AoA.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Rex854Warrior

TomCatMucDe · July 13, 2017

Hi,

Could you tell us what are the missing systems you are referring to?

I find the Mirage pretty neat the way it is now.

I'm not near the computer now but you can search a post from Zeus himself around beginning of the year where he describes how the real systems works. You will see how different it is from now. Basically you will have to learn how deploy magics guns, how to engage NAV mode, ag mode, as mode ...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

of course it is not realistic! what's realistic about it if the the armament deployment sequence is totally different???

Would have been nice to quote the entire sentence.

As i said, it's not perfect in the way it operates, maybe your looking for a much higher level of realism then i am, but for me the PCA is realistic, not perfect, but close enought to reality that i wouldn't mind it staying like that, of course, i'm looking forward for these changes.

The HUD has four master modes:

WOW (Weight On Wheels).

NAV + APP (APP is a NAV submode)

AA

AG

Here is how it works now:

WOW overrides anything while the aircraft is on the ground.

NAV is default mode when in the air.

APP is NAV submode.

HUD changes to the appropriate mode based on selected weapon in the PCA or by HOTAS.

If not weapon has been selected, it will select AA Gun: CAN when you click Master Arm ON.

Here is how it must work:

WOW overrides anything while the aircraft is on the ground.

NAV is default mode when in the air.

APP is NAV submode.

AA mode is engaged only when selecting CAN or MAG by HOTAS.

Clicking on PCA HOTAS button will revert to NAV (only if neither 530 or POL are selected).

AA mode is engaged if either 530 or POL are selected in the PCA. Deselecting 530 or POL in the PCA returns to NAV.

Clicking on MAG in the PCA does not change into AA, nor does it returns to NAV if AA is engaged.

MAG option in the PCA is used to activate magic seeker search option. It does not select the missile for launch nor does it set the system in AA mode.

CAN and MAG HOTAS selection are overrides. System will ignore any PCA selection until you click the PCA HOTAS button.

Selecting any type of AG weapon in the PCA does not change the system to AG mode. Only the PCA changes to display weapons option in the top row.

To activate AG mode you must:

Select AG weapon in the PCA.

Click the Special Modes Switch Forward.

[*]To return to NAV with AG weapon selected you must:

Click the Special Modes Switch Aft.

[*]The Master Arm switch only authorizes weapons launch/release/fire. If no weapon is selected, nothing happens. System remains in NAV or APP.

What does this mean?
That during Air-to-Air engagements you can have all three weapons ready at your fingertip:
You preselect 530 in the PCA and then choose CAN, MAG or 530 by using the HOTAS buttons: CAN, MAG or PCA.

For Air-to-Ground operations this means that you can set your attack plan without losing NAV data. You enter AG mode only when you are ready.

As you can see this is a major change in the HUD/PCA functionality and it requires some time and testing to get it right.

The weapon deployement doesn't seem that different from now, and in general it doesn't seem like it's going to change that much for us the simers.

sunski34 · July 13, 2017

I'm not near the computer now but you can search a post from Zeus himself around beginning of the year where he describes how the real systems works. You will see how different it is from now. Basically you will have to learn how deploy magics guns, how to engage NAV mode, ag mode, as mode ...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This Zeus reply ... https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3097392&postcount=4493

and this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3165798&postcount=4700 where a delay is indicated...

Still wait and hope it's just a question of 2.1.1 ED actions ...

So wait and see

Sunski

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

This Zeus reply ... https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3097392&postcount=4493
and this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3165798&postcount=4700 where a delay is indicated...

Still wait and hope it's just a question of 2.1.1 ED actions ...
So wait and see

Sunski

As for all 3rd partys, ED is the limiting factor as to went the updates go out, CptSmiley has got quite a few changes ready but none were put in a patch yet.

sunski34 · July 13, 2017

I spoke about what Zeus told us a few month ago :

Here is how it must work:

WOW overrides anything while the aircraft is on the ground.
NAV is default mode when in the air.
APP is NAV submode.
AA mode is engaged only when selecting CAN or MAG by HOTAS.
Clicking on PCA HOTAS button will revert to NAV (only if neither 530 or POL are selected).
AA mode is engaged if either 530 or POL are selected in the PCA. Deselecting 530 or POL in the PCA returns to NAV.
Clicking on MAG in the PCA does not change into AA, nor does it returns to NAV if AA is engaged.
MAG option in the PCA is used to activate magic seeker search option. It does not select the missile for launch nor does it set the system in AA mode.
CAN and MAG HOTAS selection are overrides. System will ignore any PCA selection until you click the PCA HOTAS button.
Selecting any type of AG weapon in the PCA does not change the system to AG mode. Only the PCA changes to display weapons option in the top row.
To activate AG mode you must:
Select AG weapon in the PCA.
Click the Special Modes Switch Forward.
To return to NAV with AG weapon selected you must:
Click the Special Modes Switch Aft.
The Master Arm switch only authorizes weapons launch/release/fire. If no weapon is selected, nothing happens. System remains in NAV or APP.

and of course there the FM adjustments.

sunski34 · July 13, 2017

I'm waiting for those two updates ;)

Rex854Warrior · July 13, 2017

I spoke about what Zeus told us a few month ago :

and of course there the FM adjustments.

The FM is already corrected internally, and the PCA changes i'm not sure, but i think they're not finished yet.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Rex854Warrior

Vatikus · July 13, 2017

I would also really like that radar is fixed as well... it's totally broken outside default settings ...

myHelljumper · July 14, 2017

Hi all, sorry I'm late to the show...rough work week.

FM updates are still very aggressively ongoing. I've been sending new builds to the testers daily and many times multiple a day but while we are getting closer, it's just not quite ready for prime time and want to get this one right. Again, sorry it's taking longer than possible but want you all to be sure it's being worked on.

It's the right thing to do, thanks :).

sedenion · July 14, 2017

The weapon deployement doesn't seem that different from now, and in general it doesn't seem like it's going to change that much for us the simers.

in fact the weapon deployement appear fuzzy to me with what Zeus explain... especially concerning the Magic:

"MAG option in the PCA is used to activate magic seeker search option. It does not select the missile for launch nor does it set the system in AA mode."

So... The "530" button on PCA select the S530+AA mode, but the MAG button is not the same... and so, how to select AA mode and select Magic for launching if we can't through the PCA button ? The Magic-AA-Selection only work using the HOTAS override ? This sound strange to me...

Rex854Warrior · July 14, 2017

I would also really like that radar is fixed as well... it's totally broken outside default settings ...

Outside default settings ??? What does that mean ?

And the radar is working fine, i'm not having any issues with it.

sunski34 · July 14, 2017

in fact the weapon deployement appear fuzzy to me with what Zeus explain... especially concerning the Magic:

"MAG option in the PCA is used to activate magic seeker search option. It does not select the missile for launch nor does it set the system in AA mode."

So... The "530" button on PCA select the S530+AA mode, but the MAG button is not the same... and so, how to select AA mode and select Magic for launching if we can't through the PCA button ? The Magic-AA-Selection only work using the HOTAS override ? This sound strange to me...

HOTAS MAG and CAN must be used to select AA+Magic or AA+Cannon. HOTAS PCA must be used to select PCA. If PCA is set on 530 then AA+530 is activated...

So, from my point of view ... it's not strange having only one button to select magic (HOTAS MAG). But, if PCA Mag just activates the magic seeker, there's probably a good reason if this is the the real life functionnality of the PCA. That may be usefull to help for bandit localization ! Does anybody knows ?

sunski34 · July 14, 2017

Outside default settings ??? What does that mean ?

And the radar is working fine, i'm not having any issues with it.

No real problem with the radar .... Sometimes the detection is hard even in good situation to detect ... Difficult to say if it's a bug or not.

Sometime when bandit jammer is activated, the dash like which indicates the direction of the jammer is not displayed even if a corresponding "V" is on display ... Perphaps here a problem may exist but not sure

What is strange there's no real change of the distance detection delay when moving 60/30/10 of azimuth for a given distance of scan (40 NM for example). I don't test with 1/2/4 lines... smaller is the detection zone, better is the quality of detection I think.

Edited July 14, 2017 by sunski34

sunski34 · July 14, 2017

RWR may have problems like direction when locked on 1.5.X ... very difficult to see the direction because the symbol is displayed in the center (or nearly).

When bandit unlocks, the time delay (sound and display) is a bit long ; perhaps this is the case in real life. Finally, sometimes, sounds continue with no display on RWR with the same delay after bandit destruction, but in that case, it's strange.

Pasquale1986 · July 14, 2017

Hi all, sorry I'm late to the show...rough work week.

FM updates are still very aggressively ongoing. I've been sending new builds to the testers daily and many times multiple a day but while we are getting closer, it's just not quite ready for prime time and want to get this one right. Again, sorry it's taking longer than possible but want you all to be sure it's being worked on.

Nice to hear and thanks for the update :thumbup:

Vatikus · July 14, 2017

Outside default settings ??? What does that mean ?
And the radar is working fine, i'm not having any issues with it.

What I mean is that if you are using anything but the preset PPI option, azimuth setting, etc. you will not notice that it's broken.

But if you change to B-scan, velocity vector is wrong. If you change Azimuth settings all goes wacky - antenna pointing in wrong direction after losing lock, RDO locking ghost, etc. Some buttons on the CP related to A2A do not have any function....

I've submitted bugs already months ago... then l lost the interest in bug hunting as Harrier became their focus...

myHelljumper · July 14, 2017

Some buttons on the CP related to A2A do not have any function....

IRL some buttons on the Radar control panel have no "simulation useful" function too and are used for maintenance or in "reserve".

But let's not derail (again) this good tread, if you have questions on the M2000C systems or if you find bugs, please post them in the appropriate section :thumbup:.

TomCatMucDe · July 14, 2017

Would have been nice to quote the entire sentence.

As i said, it's not perfect in the way it operates, maybe your looking for a much higher level of realism then i am, but for me the PCA is realistic, not perfect, but close enought to reality that i wouldn't mind it staying like that, of course, i'm looking forward for these changes.

The weapon deployement doesn't seem that different from now, and in general it doesn't seem like it's going to change that much for us the simers.

I didn't quote the full post because it is contradictory.

You just showed how different is the real system from the one simulated now, and you say it is realistic but not perfect? How can it be different and realistic and different the same time

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sedenion · July 14, 2017

So, from my point of view ... it's not strange having only one button to select magic (HOTAS MAG). But, if PCA Mag just activates the magic seeker, there's probably a good reason if this is the the real life functionnality of the PCA. That may be usefull to help for bandit localization ! Does anybody knows ?

No doubt there is a good reason... a good reason understandable from engineer's point of view...

- Ok guys, we must have ability to enable only Magic Seeker for passive detection...

- Yes ! but we have no more buttons to assign...

- Damn... well, let use the HOTAS override to select it, we will use the PCA to enable the seeker only

- Is this not confusing ?

- Let say this is the "French Touch" so nobody will complain.

- Hem... okay...

Rex854Warrior · July 14, 2017

No real problem with the radar .... Sometimes the detection is hard even in good situation to detect ... Difficult to say if it's a bug or not.

Sometime when bandit jammer is activated, the dash like which indicates the direction of the jammer is not displayed even if a corresponding "V" is on display ... Perphaps here a problem may exist but not sure

What is strange there's no real change of the distance detection delay when moving 60/30/10 of azimuth for a given distance of scan (40 NM for example). I don't test with 1/2/4 lines... smaller is the detection zone, better is the quality of detection I think.

When a plane is jamming, if It's too far away you won't see the dash line.

And changing azimuth, lines,.... Does not effect the quality or the detection, it will simply scan a smaller zone, therefor it will scan it faster.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Rex854Warrior

Rex854Warrior · July 14, 2017

I didn't quote the full post because it is contradictory.

You just showed how different is the real system from the one simulated now, and you say it is realistic but not perfect? How can it be different and realistic and different the same time

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you call DCS realistic ? I would. Is it perfect ? No.

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