Thrustmaster Warthog T.A.R.G.E.T. - I'm lost :(

[Davee]

Yes it is easily done in the GUI. The newest update a while ago made everything work better (and some old scripts to not work).

Remember if you use a Press, you MUST also have a release or you end up with a key pressed down all the time and an inoperative keyboard often as a result.

The wording is terrible. A Hold will release when you let go. It's all in the Target Manual.

It's only 44 pages.

 

For me, TARGET script is the way to go. Tonnes of variables to implement if desired . . . . and its not hard.

[Rudel_chw]

... I think the people who wrote the manual assumed that the user had a working knowledge of C/C++.

 

 

...but the good news is that if you want to know how to do something, just google how to do it in C and it will probably work.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the answer ... unfortunately, I barely know Visual Basic and having to learn C just to program a Joystick is a bit more than I wanted to chew :)

 

 

I think that for now I will leave Target alone and resume when I'm forced to upgrade to a TM Warthog ... thanks a lot anyway.

[DeepDrummer]

You could always just use a DX assignment, in Target, and then map that switch/button in game. I have found that to be the easiest solution rather than try to come up with a keyboard solution that isn't already used somewhere.

 

True cichlidfan. That was my intention eventually to ensure keyboard compatibility too.

It is even more work I guess unless a conversion could be automated?

I'll have to learn how to do that in the end. Thanks for that suggestion and reminder.

I have 3 more aircraft to make scripts for. I will improve over time.

After I add my canopy open and close to a shifted layer this morning, my Spitfire is ready to rock with no keyboard press required for flying. I posted the progress to the Profiles thread as a downloadable file.

This first run through was educational. I solved my dilemma regarding using the S4 paddle as a "shift" for another layer. I made one tiny error and dragged the S4 to 2 different layers in the GUI. When using the GUI, one can't drag them back out in the GUI and so would have to go to the script. That was disappointing.

I will remake the Spit script eventually unless I figure out how to get that one entry back out but for now it works perfectly so I'll move on to a BF 109 or P51 or F-15.

[DeepDrummer]

You could always just use a DX assignment, in Target, and then map that switch/button in game. I have found that to be the easiest solution rather than try to come up with a keyboard solution that isn't already used somewhere.

 

Ok since I am not any kind of coder or script writer, I am trying to grasp that concept.

I was hoping to just use the GUI but there are things it does one cannot undo via the same route.

 

I'll certainly be looking into how to follow that advice.

I recall a favourite Target script I use for something else built by someone else switched to the DX method and when I looked at the new script I said to myself, omg that must have been a lot of work.

 

Considering I just bought the BF 109, it could be a candidate for the DX method. Thanks.

I thirst for knowledge.

[DeepDrummer]

Thanks a lot for the answer ... unfortunately, I barely know Visual Basic and having to learn C just to program a Joystick is a bit more than I wanted to chew :)

 

 

I think that for now I will leave Target alone and resume when I'm forced to upgrade to a TM Warthog ... thanks a lot anyway.

 

I made a decent profile over 2 days as a first effort and I did not write one line of code.

It was all drag and drop using the Target Software. Perhaps not the best way but certainly was easy. All it took was for me to start at it 5 different times and give up first.

Once you get one switch to work you are away. It's maybe not the best profile for compatibility as cichlidfan has advised but it works. No script writing required. We can do this.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=42060&page=18

[DeepDrummer]

Here's my $0.02 on the subject:

 

The DCS controls menu allows for a lot of flexibility in mapping controllers, and virtually every command can be assigned to a directx button. In some cases like the A-10C and Viggen, you even get on/off commands for the switches on the Warthog throttle base. If you want to create modifiers (like S3 or the boat switch in TARGET), you can still do this in DCS; you just need to make sure that unmodified key commands like eject have the modifiers added to them as well (esp. for the boat switch), otherwise the command won't work while the modifier is held. What you gain is extra directX buttons (you're limited to 32 buttons and 8 axes in TARGET) to give you more options, along with the flexibilty to do what you want for each module without having to worry about consistency.

 

This may sound weird coming from a TARGET user with a profile linked in his signature. There are three reasons you might want to use TARGET:

1. You want to create and use macros for things like SnapViews.
   
2. You want to make use of the TEMPO command. DCS doesn't have an option for this.
   
3. You want TARGET to do fancy things like context sensitive button mappings with a switch (not including the boat switch modifier).
   

If you want to use TARGET for reason 1, then it's ok to use the GUI. Otherwise, I highly recommend using the Script Editor instead of the GUI. It's more flexible, the code is more user friendly (you're programming in C), and you can do a lot more. If you have any ambitions at all for reasons 2 or 3, then TARGET may be for you. However, I would exhaust the DCS options before going to TARGET.

 

I most certainly respect your opinion Home Fries and have read many of your great posts which have helped me in many areas. It would be good to know both methods but I want to fly. It was bugging me that stock, the switch states weren't covered off in DCS easily. I think I can add some of my own personal reasons for doing it with Target.

1. DCS is not the only flight sim and/or game I use that uses my TM Stick and throttle. There are quite a few if I call them up but DCS is edging them all out too. It makes sense for me to learn one method that covers all things. Target seems to have that ability.

2. I use target scripts for other things (not made by me).

3. I have no doubt that Target can fill all my DCS needs unless something changes in the DCS programming end of things.

4. I hate coding. One little comma. sheesh. My eyes go buggy.

5. Target is much improved over this last year.

6. I never give up.

I promise I'll learn the script editor more over time. I already find one thing that I must use it to remove an error if I had a clue how. Right now this is very fast to set up a profile which will work in the 3 versions. We are talking the first 2 days here.

7. The bottom line is that the learning of Target now will facilitate my ability to quickly manufacture a working profile for most any Sim I run across. This should have been and in a round about way reason # 1.

8. Making my first script has eliminated all fear.

None of your particular stated reasons apply but perhaps from my point of view now you see the method to my madness. I DO need to and want to learn about the scripting end of it and IF DCS comes out ruling the roost (and they have not confirmed that yet), then of course, I will follow whatever gets it done. The competition is ramping up.

Target will follow the victor in my Pit. My profile works. Sold!

Man, I've got a lot to learn.

I drifted away from DCS for a year pretty much and man it is looking good these days.

[Home Fries]

DeepDrummer,

 

I probably should not have made such a declarative post off the top of my head; your concerns about toggle switches on the throttle base are legitimate, and some (most) modules don't have commands that take advantage of the Warthog's default momentary switching (i.e. button stays pressed for as long as the switch is up). There are certainly reasons for using TARGET in other sims with less control schemes, but my post was specific to DCS' controller setup. For using TARGET in DCS to assign commands to throttle switches, I recommend adding the following line to main() in your .tmc file:

Configure(&Joystick,MODE_EXCLUDED);

This will exclude your Warthog stick from the TARGET code, so that Windows (and DCS) will see it as a separate controller. This way, you maximize your DirectX commands, and since you have 32 DX buttons at your disposal for the throttle, you could even add functions (e.g. pulse one DX command for switching up, and another for switching down). EDIT: the throttle uses all 32 DX commands, so to free up a DX button you would need to assign a keystroke to another button.

 

Here's an example for assigning the EAC switch to the landing gear:

MapKey(&Throttle, EACON,  PULSE+GearUp );
MapKey(&Throttle, EACOFF, PULSE+GearDown );

For switches that toggle a function or assign keystrokes, be sure to assign the PULSE command so that the controller isn't holding RCTL+G for the duration the switch is in that position.

 

The code really isn't that bad. It uses the C framework, but you don't need to know C unless you want to do fancy things like I do in my DCS profile. It is much more flexible than Foxy, and since it uses middleware instead of programming EPROM, you are not limited to binary logic flags and EPROM capacity. Just remember that C is a language that values brevity and requires format. For starters, every line ends with a semicolon, or else it is not a line but part of a continuous statement across multiple lines. Also, if/else/else if can be bracketed with { } so that you can have multiple lines executed given a condition. Note that when using brackets, the if/else/if else line does not end in a semicolon (brackets take care of that). Same thing with brackets and functions. In this example, I convert the gear cycle to a function that also uses the LED on the throttle base to show the gear state (lit for down).

int gear(int state)
{
if (state)
{
ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+GearUp);
GameOutput(&Throttle, OUT_ID_LED_1, 0);		// WH LED1 off
}	
else
{
ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+GearDown);
GameOutput(&Throttle, OUT_ID_LED_1, 1);		// WH LED1 on
}
}

MapKey(&Throttle, EACON,  EXEC("gear(1);") );
MapKey(&Throttle, EACOFF, EXEC("gear(0);") );

Hope this helps.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Home Fries

[DeepDrummer]

DeepDrummer,

 

I probably should not have made such a declarative post off the top of my head; your concerns about toggle switches on the throttle base are legitimate, and some (most) modules don't have commands that take advantage of the Warthog's default momentary switching (i.e. button stays pressed for as long as the switch is up). There are certainly reasons for using TARGET in other sims with less control schemes, but my post was specific to DCS' controller setup. For using TARGET in DCS to assign commands to throttle switches, I recommend adding the following line to main() in your .tmc file:

Configure(&Joystick,MODE_EXCLUDED);

This will exclude your Warthog stick from the TARGET code, so that Windows (and DCS) will see it as a separate controller. This way, you maximize your DirectX commands, and since you have 32 DX buttons at your disposal for the throttle, you could even add functions (e.g. pulse one DX command for switching up, and another for switching down). EDIT: the throttle uses all 32 DX commands, so to free up a DX button you would need to assign a keystroke to another button.

 

Here's an example for assigning the EAC switch to the landing gear:

MapKey(&Throttle, EACON,  PULSE+GearUp );
MapKey(&Throttle, EACOFF, PULSE+GearDown );

For switches that toggle a function or assign keystrokes, be sure to assign the PULSE command so that the controller isn't holding RCTL+G for the duration the switch is in that position.

 

The code really isn't that bad. It uses the C framework, but you don't need to know C unless you want to do fancy things like I do in my DCS profile. It is much more flexible than Foxy, and since it uses middleware instead of programming EPROM, you are not limited to binary logic flags and EPROM capacity. Just remember that C is a language that values brevity and requires format. For starters, every line ends with a semicolon, or else it is not a line but part of a continuous statement across multiple lines. Also, if/else/else if can be bracketed with { } so that you can have multiple lines executed given a condition. Note that when using brackets, the if/else/if else line does not end in a semicolon (brackets take care of that). Same thing with brackets and functions. In this example, I convert the gear cycle to a function that also uses the LED on the throttle base to show the gear state (lit for down).

int gear(int state)
{
if (state)
{
ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+GearUp);
GameOutput(&Throttle, OUT_ID_LED_1, 0);		// WH LED1 off
}	
else
{
ActKey(KEYON+PULSE+GearDown);
GameOutput(&Throttle, OUT_ID_LED_1, 1);		// WH LED1 on
}
}

MapKey(&Throttle, EACON,  EXEC("gear(1);") );
MapKey(&Throttle, EACOFF, EXEC("gear(0);") );

Hope this helps.

 

There is some cool stuff right there for sure. Thanks. Very useful and I can't wait to get to some of it.

By using the S4 paddle as a sub layer you increase your available buttons greatly. Add that to the fact that can use 3 main layers (boat switch recommended for this apparently) and the total possible actions is around 350.

I actually DID use a script that kept the stick and throttle separate before from right here (Gizzy's). It worked well.

By using the shifted states one can hit the paddle and either have it a toggle or momentary but while in action, you just doubled your options. Add the U state, the default M state and the D state. Assign the UMD to the boat switch and say in a dog fight you pull the switch back which kicks in another layer of functions in addition to the default M (middle position).

Making the target script portion that pertains to the joystick is a 20 minute job. There is no need to split them. There is certainly no problem setting the stick up as is and by including it in the Target script, you can include it as a separate device almost by using the Layers. I.E. My S4 shifts to a different layer. While I hold down the S4 paddle, I can have a totally different action come from every button. If I have my boat switch back, once I assign it, Another whole level of options come into play. and the middle and the Forward and the paddle in and out on each. To limit all those beautiful momentary press buttons on the joystick to DCS only having what? 20?

True the code isn't that bad. I read the script manual this afternoon. There are some cool possibilities if one wanted to get right into it.

I really want to keep it simply to one file and one only. As long as I pick advanced instead of basic, I get the ability to use the IO and the UMD layers. There is really no reason to pick basic at all anyway as near as I can tell.

One irreversible mistake is to drag the wrong key to be a layer control. You can't drag it back out. It's a one way GUI right there. ha ha.

As near as I can tell, I could incrementally make the friction slider adjust flaps in increments if the aircraft had increments. I use Joyhat2 for the zoom.

Target is going to be fun and I am somewhat excited. New toy for retired guy.

My BF109 stalled since I ran into the no default keyboard binding thing. I should be flying it by now.

I'll have to make some up and plug them in. It really adds a day to the job which should only take an hour or 2.

I can't see how I can cause an action to cause an action on something that doesn't exist.

The action is the binding. There is no default binding. How does Direct X rectify that?

I have far too small a brain.

Most scripts are similar. Even old Lotus 123 scripts and arguments follow similar formats.

Heck, I can't type 3 words without error. I've spent many days searching for errors in my lifetime.

All GUI like a newborn TM Target user would want to. Get the stick and throttle set up in Target and go. I suspect eventually the brick wall will require code but I am going to travel this road first.

I should be ok with the WWII stuff and when I get to my F-15, we'll see.

By the Time My F-18 finishes getting painted, I should be able to crank off a profile in short order.

Yessss. I just set up all the layers. Just dragged the boat switch forward and back and the lever to the layers.

Nothing like the instant availability of well over 300 buttons. Target Baby.

If we all keep bantering back and forth here sharing information, it will be a handy spot for Target users thanks to LuSi 6 for setting it up and getting us interested.

 

<little notes to self>

Hit the edit layers (top right) to bring this screen shown below and then drag the S4 switch to the IO layer and the boat switch front to the D layer and the boat switch Back to the U layer. M Layer is default to the middle layer.

In the future I will do that first. Note to self:

Make all New configurations advanced and not basic (I lucked out there)

Drag those switches into the edit layers window and don't use them for anything else.

 

It's like an old truck transmission. You have 5 speeds, then you shift a different shifter and you get 5 more on the main shifter, shift another, get 5 more. I'll use the S4 momentary so I have to hold it down for quick temporary things like I'll have to see if all I have to do is check the toggle box or what to have the boat switch positions remain active while the switch is forward or back and I am away.

What was that? the dogfight switch in the A-10 or something? I didn't get an A-10

It may be prudent to only use momentary switches in shifted states so that when shifting to another layer no switch can be in the wrong positions.

I maybe should check the toggle box of the UMD layer section.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by DeepDrummer

[DeepDrummer]

You could always just use a DX assignment, in Target, and then map that switch/button in game. I have found that to be the easiest solution rather than try to come up with a keyboard solution that isn't already used somewhere.

 

Hard as I try I can't wrap my head around that. (later I realize what you meant)

To DO that, I would have to make DCS aware that the DX assignment pertains to the function I want to happen. DCS has to expect something by including in it's own code that says if this key is pressed or this code is sent then this action will be performed. Are these not the key bindings? Regardless of whether we indicate them as usb codes, keys or DX codes, when they come into DCS, DCS needs a reference to say "someone sent this code, the table says when they send that code, drop the landing gear but unfortunately that portion of the table is empty and so I can send whatever code I want in whatever format I choose and nothing will happen.

(it clicks in here and I now understand you didn't mean that at all).

 

"Map that switch/button in game" Which is what I was doing and it is just slightly limiting but in reality it was fine. A Spit doesn't have many buttons though. I have the option of increasing my actions available by a factor of 10 (much less actually usable of course) by having the key bindings filled in and using the stick and throttle and shifted states and layers to press the key bindings by proxy.

Think of a shifted state for comms, paddle+S1 for "cover me"

I could be ahead of myself. I don't want to make any macro file if I can help it.

It's not impossible, it just takes a few extra hours and still stands as something hard to share which really doesn't matter since I can't imagine anyone wanting switches and buttons where I do. If those entries were there as defaults, I would have got 2 aircraft done today. It just goes badda boom when you just have to hit those keys to enter them into target. I got halfway through the throttle for Layer M (default Layer) and then screech. I'll pick it up again tomorrow. I can see I should learn to fly the BF 109 before too long so I can formulate a plan. I have not even tried to start it yet. Key bindings is always last finished and I understand why. It's tough stuff.

This kind of reminds me of my old hobby of RC flying. Fly in the Morning and repair and tinker for the rest of the day.

It really is a limiting factor. I stand on my original claim that default key bindings should be prioritized. Actually, if you're not going to ship them full then don't ever change them or it'll really mess us up. Hmm. You guys probably already know this.

Even changing them wouldn't be overly bad. It's pretty quick to slam them in if they exist.

It sure would help stubborn dummies like me and the throngs of future SIM Pilots who are even now lining up to be all part of the DCS World Wide Wave.

Then again this stubborn dummy will be long gone done setting things up long before anyone fills their key bindings. I'll say no more on it.

Keep the great information coming.

[LeCuvier]

Back in the times when I worked with Americans, I learned a good rule: "keep it simple, stupid!". Some of the stuff I read here makes me wonder whether people have any time left for playing with all this tinkering. The only tinkering I do is to modify the default.lua in order to use a single maintained ON/OFF switch instead of two buttons, and stuff like that. And that again is to make things simple for me. But as we say in German: jedem Tierchen sein Pläsierchen! (everybody have fun their way!)

[DeepDrummer]

K.I.S.S. is a good thing to keep in mind and I agree.

One file made by the GUI only without writing one line of code makes simplicity my whole point.

As I say in "Canadian" English. "Do what makes YOU happy.

 

If doing this reveals a flaw in the system like the lack of default bindings, I feel it should be brought forward. Maybe we'll get lucky and they will release the F-18 with a full compliment of key bindings and I can be up and running in extremely short order.

 

As a side note the mistake was not irreversible. One can simply drag another switch onto the layer to replace the one dragged by mistake.

 

The whole point is to show just how easy it is to use Target and to have a final product that while your head is locked into a VR headset does not require you to remove your hands from the throttle and stick with side trips to the mouse. Other people have different needs and opinions and I respect that as well. The naysayers will come and go trying to suggest ways around target. These solutions are personal and very often ingenious and interesting will not be entertained by myself in this target thread unless doing so somehow enhances or facilitates the use of target.

I have been flying DCS for over a year using the basic DCS control set up facility. It works ok and can get you in the air. I used Gizzy's script and it was very nice and perfect for my needs at the time. No I want to be able to do it myself. People come and go. To rely on someone else to make my script is a bit confining. I want my button where I want my button. Realism is not totally top priority for me in the controls. Logic is.

I also simply have a thirst for knowledge and today, this is what I choose to learn (Target software GUI). Being retired and having 24 hrs a day (Me) requires some kind of tinker time one can get passionate about. Target is filling a bit of that for a few days.

Quite frankly, today should suitcase "layers" and chains and a few things.

For instance in the Spitfire, DCS gives you an option to shoot cannons, machines guns or both.

I like to use the first trigger for cannons and the second half of that trigger for both.

The BF 109 does not give me a key bind for both so for the second half of the switch I am going to have to string another command to the second half essentially putting the cannon and machine guns on at the same time like I do in the Spit. One can do anything I am doing in Lua I would imagine if one knew the code well. Target allows me to do that.

My sim works just fine without using Target. This is true and I could say that all day long.

My Sim works how I want it to work WITH Target and it is so easy it is amazing.

I am not trying to sell Target here. I am trying to deposit information for people who want to learn and use it as I myself learn as I go. Und ich auch ein bissien Deutsch Sprechen aber nur ein bissien. Target

As we say in Canadian English: That's pretty freakin' cool!

[Home Fries]

DeepDrummer,

 

With respect to your profile concept, I have a couple of questions that may make you think big picture:

1. Do you plan to fly one aircraft, or a lot of modules?
   
2. Do you like to change aircraft on a whim, or do you know what you're going to fly before you launch DCS?
   

 

If you fly a lot of aircraft and require flexibility, you may want to make your profile as generic as possible so it will translate across multiple modules. For example, I have every module, and when I fly multiplayer I may have plans to fly the Viggen, but people may need me to fly fighter cover instead. Likewise, I can jump into a Huey at the drop of a hat if the mission needs it. Therefore, when I designed my TARGET profile the highest priority I had was to design a system where I could change aircraft mappings on the fly (i.e. without stopping the script). Even though DCS can detect when controllers are added and removed, TARGET can be problematic when started/stopped inside DCS.

 

Bottom line: if you fly one or two similar aircraft (e.g. Bf-109 and Fw-190), you can probably go to town with your control mappings. However, if you fly a variety of aircraft, you will want to take chichlidfan's advice and map buttons to DirectX so you have the flexibility across modules.

 

Similarly, if you need the flexibility, I would again recommend excluding the stick from the profile. The S4 and UMD you can program in DCS by setting these buttons as modifiers, and you can assign modifiers per module (so you could have UMD in the Viggen and not in the Bf-109). You can do combinations of TARGET modifiers and DCS modifiers, but that adds a layer of complexity. However, it works if you want to do it. Doing DirectX requires planning and more work up-front with also mapping buttons in DCS, but it provides you with more flexibilty in the long term.

[LeCuvier]

The BF 109 does not give me a key bind for both so for the second half of the switch I am going to have to string another command to the second half essentially putting the cannon and machine guns on at the same time like I do in the Spit.

And that's something I cannot do in .lua. But I don't mind, because the real Bf-109K (unlike the FW-190D) did not allow the pilot to fire both MG's and cannon with a single button. So it's just realistic that I have to press both the trigger and the weapon release button if I want max. firepower. Or, what's probably smarter, use only the MG's at a distance, and only the cannon when I'm real close. Because the ballistic behaviour of the 13mm rounds is quite different from that of the 30mm shells, and because the number of 30 mm shells is rather limited.

[Sokol1_br]

For instance in the Spitfire, DCS gives you an option to shoot cannons, machines guns or both.

I like to use the first trigger for cannons and the second half of that trigger for both.

The BF 109 does not give me a key bind for both so for the second half of the switch I am going to have to string another command to the second half essentially putting the cannon and machine guns on at the same time like I do in the Spit.

 

And both are correct.

 

Spitfire Mk.IXe "BBC" (acronyn for Browning, Both, Cannons) fire button can be pressed in upper part for fire MG only, in middle part for fire MG+Cannon, and in lower part for fire cannons only.

 

https://s12.postimg.org/pyverb23x/BBC.jpg

 

Bf 109 KG-12/13 B grip has a trigger for MG and a press button in top of grip for fire cannons, so can't be assigned to one joystick button only. (1)

 

http://germancontrolsticks.blogspot.com.br/

 

Some FW 190 variants use different arrangement, for the same grip.

 

We don't want "realism" in DCSW? Or that War Thunder easiness. ;)

 

(1) But using the K.I.S.S. principle for assignment - in a minute:

 

Go to DCS controls.

 

Select Bf 109 MG - press Warthog trigger 1st stage AND HOLD.

Select Bf 109 Cannons - now press the trigger until 2nd stage.

 

Voilà! During gameplay, press 1st stage - MG, press 2nd staged MG + cannon. :thumbup:

Edited July 20, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[DeepDrummer]

DeepDrummer,

 

With respect to your profile concept, I have a couple of questions that may make you think big picture:

1. Do you plan to fly one aircraft, or a lot of modules?
   
2. Do you like to change aircraft on a whim, or do you know what you're going to fly before you launch DCS?
   

 

If you fly a lot of aircraft and require flexibility, you may want to make your profile as generic as possible so it will translate across multiple modules. For example, I have every module, and when I fly multiplayer I may have plans to fly the Viggen, but people may need me to fly fighter cover instead. Likewise, I can jump into a Huey at the drop of a hat if the mission needs it. Therefore, when I designed my TARGET profile the highest priority I had was to design a system where I could change aircraft mappings on the fly (i.e. without stopping the script). Even though DCS can detect when controllers are added and removed, TARGET can be problematic when started/stopped inside DCS.

 

Bottom line: if you fly one or two similar aircraft (e.g. Bf-109 and Fw-190), you can probably go to town with your control mappings. However, if you fly a variety of aircraft, you will want to take chichlidfan's advice and map buttons to DirectX so you have the flexibility across modules.

 

Similarly, if you need the flexibility, I would again recommend excluding the stick from the profile. The S4 and UMD you can program in DCS by setting these buttons as modifiers, and you can assign modifiers per module (so you could have UMD in the Viggen and not in the Bf-109). You can do combinations of TARGET modifiers and DCS modifiers, but that adds a layer of complexity. However, it works if you want to do it. Doing DirectX requires planning and more work up-front with also mapping buttons in DCS, but it provides you with more flexibilty in the long term.

 

I would like to say that I will not be flying a lot of aircraft but a few more certainly would be good. Perhaps the 4 WWII that are available now. (I own 3 so far).

I have an F-15 and probably would try the F-18 as well. Who knows where it will end.

Helis are attractive. ahhh.

I generally know what I want to fly before hand but it's getting more period specific and not limited to one. If I am in a WWII plane mood, which is usually, I would not normally switch to jets that day. It's more of a "what mood am I in " thing.

I have 2 fully built Target profiles now except for some bombing controls yet to be put into the BF 109. I am thinking for my 3 WWII stuff just for fun, I am going to Put the BF 109 on the U Layer and The P51 on the D layer with all layers (M being the spit) having the availability of the S4 modifier.

I of course will also have the aircraft as separate files as well. The beauty of target. I can change my mind not only for aircraft but even for load out or missions or any reason at all.

Since I change nothing in the DCS end of stick and throttle things, I can flip through my moods using target.

I am only doing that because I can.

Picture I am in MP flying the Spit.

Buddy wants a wingman in a 109. *flip boat switch back* 109 profile loaded. Jump in 109.

I'll have to load a separate file for the FW190 that I don't have yet.

The next step for me (today) is to make a single file for the P-51.

Then I'll start adding the 109 to the U layer and the P-51 to the D layer.

I always keep them as similar as possible. The stick doesn't change much at all if at all.

Just some of the nomenclature changes as I keep it as similar to the game as possible so I don't have to include a pile of Rem statements or whatever target calls them.

The layers do not show on the graphical target printout.

I guess bottom line is, in reality, I am the one or two kind of Aircraft kind of guy.

My aged brain would never remember more than <insert every growing number here>

I am a Piston engine kind of guy (x Harley racer). The crackle of a decelerating Merlin is such sweet music to this old man.

I am pretty sure I used your stuff and Loved it. I am not knocking that at all.

 

It's more my own inability to find any information at all on how to use DX bindings that keeps me from even considering that route. I know nothing. Saying you should use directx doesn't mean a lot to convince me. I don't understand how one would tell DCS which action it wants it to perform if there is no designated dx code or key stroke allocated in game. How do we do that with directx? I have no doubt I'll do everything over and over and that is fine since again. I am changing nothing in DCS and can bop around at will.

It is a statement that goes nowhere. Back it up. Link it to something. Provide some direction.

It's like saying "Yeah, I like ice cream". Remember I am not a coder.

I Loved the way you did the scripts and the end result.

The original post title kind of hinted toward wanting a simple method.

One fcf file made completely with GUI only is the simple way to go.

We should make a new thread for getting into it further in Target or we're going to scare folks who want to keep it simple away from Target.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3200599#post3200599

[DeepDrummer]

I think people do it the "wrong" way IMO.

 

Every plane has default button assignments, and as far as I understood, people program their Warthog in TARGET to match this. Then you have to switch TARGET profiles when you switch planes.

 

The way I do it: I set up a logical button assignment in TARGET. I remember it (or use the event tester if I forget) - then I modify the control assignments in DCS.

 

Let's say, I assign the bottom left switch switched up to num 1, and down to LAlt+ num 1. Then, if there is something I want to control with that switch I go to DCS, controls, and assign num 1 and LAlt+num1 in the keyboard column.

 

Piece of cake! ;)

 

This makes a lot of sense. I am going to try this on my F-15 next.

As I work on 2 near identical ones, I often shake my head at the different key combinations required to do exactly the same thing. I can see you guys laughing since you've all been there on all this stuff.

[DeepDrummer]

And both are correct.

 

Spitfire Mk.IXe "BBC" (acronyn for Browning, Both, Cannons) fire button can be pressed in upper part for fire MG only, in middle part for fire MG+Cannon, and in lower part for fire cannons only.

 

https://s12.postimg.org/pyverb23x/BBC.jpg

 

Bf 109 KG-12/13 B grip has a trigger for MG and a press button in top of grip for fire cannons, so can't be assigned to one joystick button only. (1)

 

http://germancontrolsticks.blogspot.com.br/

 

Some FW 190 variants use different arrangement, for the same grip.

 

We don't want "realism" in DCSW? Or that War Thunder easiness. ;)

 

(1) But using the K.I.S.S. principle for assignment - in a minute:

 

Go to DCS controls.

 

Select Bf 109 MG - press Warthog trigger 1st stage AND HOLD.

Select Bf 109 Cannons - now press the trigger until 2nd stage.

 

Voilà! During gameplay, press 1st stage - MG, press 2nd staged MG + cannon. :thumbup:

 

AWESOME btw!

[DeepDrummer]

And both are correct.

 

Spitfire Mk.IXe "BBC" (acronyn for Browning, Both, Cannons) fire button can be pressed in upper part for fire MG only, in middle part for fire MG+Cannon, and in lower part for fire cannons only.

 

https://s12.postimg.org/pyverb23x/BBC.jpg

 

Bf 109 KG-12/13 B grip has a trigger for MG and a press button in top of grip for fire cannons, so can't be assigned to one joystick button only. (1)

 

http://germancontrolsticks.blogspot.com.br/

 

Some FW 190 variants use different arrangement, for the same grip.

 

We don't want "realism" in DCSW? Or that War Thunder easiness. ;)

 

(1) But using the K.I.S.S. principle for assignment - in a minute:

 

Go to DCS controls.

 

Select Bf 109 MG - press Warthog trigger 1st stage AND HOLD.

Select Bf 109 Cannons - now press the trigger until 2nd stage.

 

Voilà! During gameplay, press 1st stage - MG, press 2nd staged MG + cannon. :thumbup:

 

Using the Target GUI (inspired by those posts), I was able to simply drag a second event to the TG2 trigger and have both fire in the BF 109.

Edit: in reality that didn't fire both at the same time. hmm..

Edited July 22, 2017 by DeepDrummer

[DeepDrummer]

Maybe using "chain" in a script which is beyond myself.

[Sokol1_br]

In Tm F22PRO/Cougar FOX "hay days" I remember that was possible use some joystick buttons through keyboard emulation and use some as pure DX buttons - this TARGET don't allow this?

 

Because TmW trigger is just 2 buttons pressed by same lever, they should fire cannon and MG assigned separated in game controls GUI.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[LeCuvier]

This makes a lot of sense. I am going to try this on my F-15 next.

As I work on 2 near identical ones, I often shake my head at the different key combinations required to do exactly the same thing. I can see you guys laughing since you've all been there on all this stuff.

I wish you guys luck!

I was trying to have common button assignments between the different birds, and I find that there are so many functional differences between the planes that in the end there are only a few common ones, like fire MG. Even the functions for flaps differ significantly. So some planes have a take-off position and some don't. If you only fly FC3 planes that's different of course, but I don't. So what I do is to assign the commands to HOTAS buttons in Options/Controls, always trying to follow a common schema as much as functionality allows. And I document my control bindings in an Excel format which I display on my second monitor. For my beloved Bf-109 and FW-90 I don't need to look any more; neither for the A-10C. But for the less frequently used ones it's very helpful.

[escaner]

Using the Target GUI (inspired by those posts), I was able to simply drag a second event to the TG2 trigger and have both fire in the BF 109.

Edit: in reality that didn't fire both at the same time. hmm..

 

TG2 includes TG1. If you want to stop TG1 event, at TG2 press add a key up for TG1 gun, and at TG2 release add a key down for TG1 gun.

 

Sent from my MI PAD 2 using Tapatalk

Edited July 23, 2017 by escaner

[LeCuvier]

You can do all kinds of things in TARGET that makes handling easier in he game. But that takes it farther and farther away from what the real thing was. You might just as well use DCS in game mode.

[DeepDrummer]

TG2 includes TG1. If you want to stop TG1 event, at TG2 press add a key up for TG1 gun, and at TG2 release add a key down for TG1 gun.

 

Sent from my MI PAD 2 using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[DeepDrummer]

You can do all kinds of things in TARGET that makes handling easier in he game. But that takes it farther and farther away from what the real thing was. You might just as well use DCS in game mode.

 

I can't see why wanting a switch to operate as off in the off position and on in the on position is using DCS's "gaming mode". Perhaps more accurately is that not using Target (or somehow going beyond what the stock DCS key bind GUI allows) is actually making DCS more of a SIM and less of a "game" than the stock allows.

 

My Spit and 109 work perfectly in all aspects using Target.

I have no curves set. No chain commands set. I have decided that I can click some of the breakers in the 109.

The only difference to the final setup is that I have everything exactly as I had it configured in DCS World and simply added a few more buttons and switches and got the existing switch states to makes sense.

The whole underlying reason for the exercise is to eliminate completely the need to use the keyboard (or mfds) so someday I can strap on a vr headset and go to town.

Without using some kind of script or mod it's a bit more difficult to achieve without some kind of outside help.

I flew both of my completed Target profiles last night and the keyboard was not even within reach and so in my mind success has been achieved and more importantly things make sense to ME.

There are many better scripts than mine however I can edit mine and not get lost and so I have the ability to add to it at will.

I have decided to use a single script per aircraft which suits my case well.