aileron Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) We really, really need a navigation log in the kneeboard. Its so frustrating to try and navigate in VR without a knee-board flight plan that you can look at. This has been an area in DCS that is seriously lacking. So I'm posting this because you almost always take off in a real airplane for another airport with one and I usually fill one out if its beyond super simple for any flight sim game. Because VR makes making your own flight plans impossible on a real knee-board its really become a problem. So ED... we need a knee-board flight plan. :) Edited July 19, 2017 by aileron
Northstar98 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Sort of like a kneeboard that's you can edit from/using the ME? Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
aileron Posted July 19, 2017 Author Posted July 19, 2017 When you select an aircraft and put down its waypoints a flight plan page should be filled out for you if its a client/player aircraft/helo. If you chose to fly to a VOR, NDB, RSBN, ILS, PRMG, airport, or just some waypoint it should tell you all the pertinent information. From / To / Heading, radio freq, Identifier, dist, time, etc. When you get in the plane and you hit K for knee-board (or look at virtual pilot) your flight plan should be available to you similar to the one I showed above. That way your not scrambling around looking at F10 moving around the map while holding heading and altitude or taking off your VR goggles to figure out whats the next frequency for that NAV/Comm station, whats my next heading, etc. On modern jets its not as big a problem as they can program in their way points... right up until you get shot at and lose your instruments, and have to rely on compass to get back. Then you wonder where you are and what heading gets you back home. Hence knee board flight plan. 1
HiJack Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I believe military aircrafts in a war scenario does something else than fly from airport to airport.
HiJack Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 What would be interesting is to get a mission plan from some of the missions/or the complete air2air campaign/ plans from desert storm or similar. I think you would see something completely different than your flight plan although there for sure are tasks from one airport to another. Even those I believe do not use this kind of flight plan, it's for civil traffic.
Gierasimov Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I keep mine as a hardcopy anyways. What would be interesting is to get a mission plan from some of the missions/or the complete air2air campaign/ plans from desert storm or similar. I think you would see something completely different than your flight plan although there for sure are tasks from one airport to another. Even those I believe do not use this kind of flight plan, it's for civil traffic. That^ .. I agree. At the same time I create my mission plan including waypoints and nav data as needed. Same goes for JTAC 9 line. I guess it is time consuming but also I don't particularly enjoy kneeboard displayed as it is now - floating on the screen... Just my five cents. Thanks for reading though... Intel Ultra 9 285K :: ROG STRIX Z890-A GAMING WIFI :: Kingston Fury 64GB :: MSI RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio :: VKB Gunfighter MK.III MCG Ultimate :: VPC MongoosT-50 CM3 :: non-VR :: single player :: open beta
aileron Posted July 19, 2017 Author Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I said "Waypoint" as well as NAVAIDS, and I'm not sure I follow you guys as to what the military does vs. flying airport to airport. What exactly do you think they did in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam? Do you really think a guy remembers each heading, altitude, speed and distance flown to a waypoint, then his IP and his target, then all that data back to home base? Do you also think they don't have known TACAN/VORs/NDB's (A-N in WWII) to get back to base? Don't just think modern computerized aircraft. I recommend you guys read and enjoy Richard Bach's "Stranger to the Ground." And you can enjoy a story of a fighter pilot during the cold war in an F-84F over France doing a long IFR flight. You can see his map overlay and yes his flight plan 'AF Form 21a" in the book. Also where do you think kneeboard flight plans came from? Also there is such a thing as intersections from a known NDB, VOR, TACAN as well which would be your waypoint. If time and distance are not the only way when you're above the clouds and can't find that knotty mountain top to make your turn from. Pilots with kneeboards; this one below appears to be a flight plan: And yes, I know they carry far more data than just flight plans... I know they can be electronic now but not sure they use them in fighter planes at the moment? It would be nice if a mil pilot would chime in here. ETA: I also agree a floating knee board is not great but its better than nothing. I'd prefer the pilot have it on his body in the cockpit. But I really think for an F86, MIG15, F-5, Huey, MI-8, this is a really necessary addon. Even modern jets can benifit. I don't know how many times in modern jets in other sims that shall go nameless, I've refereed to my knee board, especially when the fit hit the shan and I needed to egress the area. Edited July 19, 2017 by aileron
Gierasimov Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Hi aileron, You must have misunderstood me. I am with you on kneeboard and flight / mission data. I just said that I don't really like how kneeboard is implemented in DCS, hence I am creating my own data sheets - real ones with a pen and paper and use them when I am enjoying DCS. I also think you misunderstood other posts as I feel we are not negating your point of view nor we are disputing the existence of a kneeboard. Thanks for the bed time reading recommendation. G. Intel Ultra 9 285K :: ROG STRIX Z890-A GAMING WIFI :: Kingston Fury 64GB :: MSI RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio :: VKB Gunfighter MK.III MCG Ultimate :: VPC MongoosT-50 CM3 :: non-VR :: single player :: open beta
Gierasimov Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 no need to be sorry mate Sorry my bad... Fine, Check this one out: - I like this pen :) 3:31 - notes in flight. Intel Ultra 9 285K :: ROG STRIX Z890-A GAMING WIFI :: Kingston Fury 64GB :: MSI RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio :: VKB Gunfighter MK.III MCG Ultimate :: VPC MongoosT-50 CM3 :: non-VR :: single player :: open beta
HiJack Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I said "Waypoint" as well as NAVAIDS, and I'm not sure I follow you guys as to what the military does vs. flying airport to airport. What exactly do you think they did in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam? Do you really think a guy remembers each heading, altitude, speed and distance flown to a waypoint, then his IP and his target, then all that data back to home base? Do you also think they don't have known TACAN/VORs/NDB's (A-N in WWII) to get back to base? Don't just think modern computerized aircraft. Yes of course they have plans. Huge plans and mission documentation. During training and live missions the real pilot uses twice or even more time to prepare than the mission itself takes. And yes they also fly from airport to airport but I believe these mission forms looks completely different in a hot war environment as we always have in a DCS Mission or campaign. And of course they all have a kneeboard with mission plans and flight information. Again. What I believe is interesting to get is the flight plans/mission documents for a real event and look at them and then recreate this information. I can give you a link to some other document plans made but I'm not sure these are as close to reality but they are computer documents that you can fill out before the mission. You can then store all your mission plans on your computer and skip DCS logbook all together. The DCS World logbook is anyway terrible, hopefully being moved to a website soon that records all your flights and flight parameters/results. Mission datacard: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=67 Fuel planning tool: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=474 Aries flight planning tool: http://ariescon.com/index12.html (Aries is currently being updated) So, there is a lot of tools and information available to use for planning missions with multiple flights and not just a simple airport to airport plan for one single flight. I hope my view is more clear now? :joystick:
MikeMikeJuliet Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 I'm all for a 3D-kneeboard on the lap... I much rather turn my head and look, than press a button to fill my screen with the current kneeboard. There were also a couple of other kneeboard-threads here somewhere DCS Finland | SF squadron
HiJack Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 So is there no way to view images or documents when using VR goggles?
some1 Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 I'm all for a 3D-kneeboard on the lap... I much rather turn my head and look, than press a button to fill my screen with the current kneeboard. It already works like that in the Spitfire. Basically a copy of 2D kneeboard in 3D. So is there no way to view images or documents when using VR goggles? You can, but it has to display as a part of the kneeboard, which pops up as a big floating 2D plate. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
Bogey Jammer Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 So is there no way to view images or documents when using VR goggles? The creator of the mission can insert image in the .miz file to be displayed in the kneeboard. Pages can also be automatically generated by using the mission's data in any desired format (example in my signature). I'm all for a 3D-kneeboard on the lap... I much rather turn my head and look, than press a button to fill my screen with the current kneeboard. Current VR's resolution will force you to put your nose some inches close to your knee, not just turn your head. I'll buy : МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module
aileron Posted July 20, 2017 Author Posted July 20, 2017 Again. What I believe is interesting to get is the flight plans/mission documents for a real event and look at them and then recreate this information. I can give you a link to some other document plans made but I'm not sure these are as close to reality but they are computer documents that you can fill out before the mission. You can then store all your mission plans on your computer and skip DCS logbook all together. The DCS World logbook is anyway terrible, hopefully being moved to a website soon that records all your flights and flight parameters/results. Mission datacard: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=67 Fuel planning tool: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=474 Aries flight planning tool: http://ariescon.com/index12.html (Aries is currently being updated) So, there is a lot of tools and information available to use for planning missions with multiple flights and not just a simple airport to airport plan for one single flight. I hope my view is more clear now? :joystick: Wow those links are awesome... and yes far more clear, I know see where I got defensive... like I said before... my bad. I don't know how you can get actual flight plan logs from say Desert Storm... as interesting as that would be. But hey maybe someone has one laying around. I think the mission data card you posted above is pretty much what we need in DCS as a kneeboard. I'm requesting that it auto-generate based on what you've put in the game mission editor. All that data should be available to the games database, so it should be possible for the game engine to create them. Of course now I have to go off and check out all these tools(links) and Bogey Jammer's toy.
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