New Static Objects ?

[Weta43]

One question - the static objects that are the camo nets - how much does it take to destroy them - will they always absorb one direct hit with a weapon before allowing the object underneath to be destroyed (?) or do they have the equivalent of "no-clipping" & let objects (weapons) pass through them?

(will I hit with an S-25L only to see the net burst into flames but the tank be unharmed?)

[MBot]

One question - the static objects that are the camo nets - how much does it take to destroy them - will they always absorb one direct hit with a weapon before allowing the object underneath to be destroyed (?) or do they have the equivalent of "no-clipping" & let objects (weapons) pass through them?

(will I hit with an S-25L only to see the net burst into flames but the tank be unharmed?)

 

 

Thats easy, I simply made the hitbox a flat sqare on the ground. That way a bomb dropping on the net will still destroy it, but the hitbox of the net will not block the path to the target vehicle.

Only downside of that methode is that a weapon will have to hit the ground area of the net in order to destroy it, rockets passing horizontal trough it wont harm it. On the other hand that might not be unrealistic at all, as I think most weapons would simply pass trough a net :)

[Alfa]

No success so far. I also tried the unused indexes between 495 and 500.

 

Check PM :)

 

- JJ.

[Pilotasso]

We could perhaps make a whole new map out of one single object that would act as a stationary carrier in the biggest area of watter on the map...how about this crazy idea? :D

[Weta43]

Good :-) Sounds like you've got it all thought out ...

Is it 'fragile' enough to be destroyed by the blast of a weapon hitting the tank? (though as long as the tasnk is detroyed & the flames etc extend beyond the net it doesn't matter that much anyway

[MBot]

I have yet to tune the damage values, but so far a good placed bombs will blow up net and tank.

 

Problem with the inclusion of additional objects is solved btw. Reason: stupidity of user. Now the sky is the limit :)

[159th_Viper]

I have yet to tune the damage values, but so far a good placed bombs will blow up net and tank.

 

Problem with the inclusion of additional objects is solved btw. Reason: stupidity of user. Now the sky is the limit :)

 

Great News - with your talent I would however not resort to "stupidity"; rather an "oversight" would best describe it;) . Looking forward to release.

[51GRIZZLY]

Is it possible to move around with the wegetation like single trees who allready are in the game ?

Like these palmtrees on the promenade in Novorussisk?

[Weta43]

Birdie has a manual edit somewhere that lets you add about a hundred objects to the ME, some of which are trees.

[SwingKid]

The bilge pump used with them was about the size of a breadbox if I recall, and just connected one at a time by a single hose.

 

Hmm, maybe I was incorrect, and the pump looks rather more like this?

 

http://www.iaiamedia.be/bestbalsakits/kitsDetail.asp?kitnumber=132

 

-SK

[MBot]

Here is another small update. New objects in game are a camouflaged field camp and some ammo crates.

 

The camp object is nothing more than a couple of one-man tents covered with a camo net. It is nothing fancy but a good object to go with the ammo and fuel depot. From the air those objects look pretty much the same, so you can't be realy sure what you are attacking. The true difference comes when destroying it. The camp will just turn into a crumpled black net, the fuel depot will additionaly burn down pretty hefty while the ammo depot goes off in huge secondary explosions with munition cooking off.

All those objects are very hard to spot from the air. You wont go and search for them, rather you will be tasked to attack a certain position with area weapons.

 

The ammunition crates are a spin off from the ammo depot. These things are realy fun because they are almost impossible to spot from the air. But should you manage to hit one ( because you attacked a designated position or it was standing next to your target ) you will notice some nice secondary explosions.

 

 

I also PMed Chizh for help with the winter textures, but haven't got an answer so far. I know Chizh is a buisy man, but I realy hope to introduce season textures swap. If I have to make a uniqe summer and winter version for each object, it will realy spam the mission editor.

 

 

@SwingKid

I think I will stick with the fuel drums for the moment. Since the objects are for all nations in Lock On, it will fit better for countrys like Georgia or "Caucasian Rebels". But if I find some good photos I might do the bladders at a later stage.

[GGTharos]

Mbot, when do we get to see this awesome stuff? :D

 

Also, I hope you can create an installer like Walmis' perhaps, we need some easyway to insert these things into Meinit without interfering with other mods.

[MBot]

Hehe, I still got some stuff on the list before 'Static Objects Pack 1' ships :) I think it has to reach a certain size for people to bother to download it.

 

For the Pack itselfe I think I will need some help by a experienced modder. I guess most people run a modified meinit by now, so that has to be sorted out somehow.

[MBot]

Another update. This time a camouflaged field command post. I realy enjoyed painting the maps on the board and table :) It has also a table with a radio station on the right hand wall.

[VapoR]

Would be nice for each person who creates these objects to work together to to have ongoing Object Packs. This will help down the road for compatibility reasons. Mission builders could put a note in their briefings or readme that says: (requires Object Pack 1 and 2, for example). This would help a lot for MP especially . . .

 

Would be nice if ED included a column for objects in the scoreboard too . . .

[egaRim]

those objects look great so far.. they should help to build up even more immersion on the battle field

 

you might want to establish some kind of development libary.. maybe some one is familiar with software engineering in the open source enviroment? there should be solutions to help working together on the internet...

 

:)

[MBot]

Today I will introduce two very special new objects to you, ReactDelay and AreaGoal.

 

 

ReactDelay

 

We all know that the AI in Lock On isn't perfect. Especialy anoying for mud movers is the lack of reaction times for air defense units, Lock On's AD is insta reacting. As we know, the surprise effect is very important for ground attacks. The first golden rule of mud moving - never return for a second pass - is a testemony for that. Now it will be possible to achive this.

 

The object ReactDelay is very simple. The 3d model itselfe is empty ( invisible, not there ), it consists of a simple hitbox, about 15x15m big. The object is placed around the ( stationary ) unit you want to add a reaction time to it. What will happen: The unit will engage aircraft as usual. But the hitbox around it will absorb the fire, meaning no fire gets away from the unit. After a certain amount of time the hitbox gets destroyed and the path to the targets is free. This time when the fire is cought in the hitbox is our simulated reaction time when no aircraft can be engaged.

I created 4 versions of ReactDelay now and spent the afternoon scaling the hitpoints for various units. There are versions that block AAA for about 20 or 45 seconds, or block the first 2 missiles of the Strela-10 etc.

I think this is pretty cool. You can have heavily defended targets that can be "surprised" by a quick attack and after about a minute when the AD "wakes up" there is no more comming trough.

 

This is a pretty rough methode, but quite effective. I know we will get something like this with the more realistic AI in BS ( at least I expect so ), but this is a good workaround until then.

 

 

AreaGoal

 

Creating good mission goals is sometimes not easy as most mission designers know. Lets say you want the player to attack a camp, artillery site or vehicle park. What goal that decides mission failure or success do we use ? If you add a destroy goal to every unit in the camp, the player must destroy them all to succeed. If you add the destroy goal to only one unit in the camp, the player migh do heavy damage but miss the one target with the goal attached, thus failing the mission. With AreaGoal this is a thing of the past.

 

AreaGoal is a invisible object, only consisting of a hitbox, 500x500m wide on the ground. It will not hinder the placement or fire of other units in the area. The object is no real goal, but a object to attach your mission goal to it.

 

You can place the AreaGoal object in the target area and add a destroy goal to it. When the player attacks the general target position, he might hit or miss some tanks, but the 500x500m AreaGoal bellow it gets destroyed.

This gives us the possibility to have more realistic mission objectives for the Su-25. As we know, the Su-25 is mostly used to attack enemy positions, not specific targets. So if the player goes in and drops his weapons in the designated area, the mission is considered a success. This is realistic because pilots are tasked to attack something, not especialy to destroy it ( although that would be preferable ). What amount of damage they cause is often not in the hands of a pilot. With AreaGoal we can tribute such attacks.

 

 

 

I am very enthusiastic about those two objects, as this is stuff that I wanted for a long time. What surprises me is the simplicity of the ideas. I have been thinking about the possible application of the static objects for weeks now, but this morning on my way to work the idea struck me like a lightning :)

[Alfa]

Hi Mbot,

 

Very innovative - rep inbound! :)

 

- JJ.

 

 

Today I will introduce two very special new objects to you, ReactDelay and AreaGoal.

 

 

ReactDelay

 

We all know that the AI in Lock On isn't perfect. Especialy anoying for mud movers is the lack of reaction times for air defense units, Lock On's AD is insta reacting. As we know, the surprise effect is very important for ground attacks. The first golden rule of mud moving - never return for a second pass - is a testemony for that. Now it will be possible to achive this.

 

The object ReactDelay is very simple. The 3d model itselfe is empty ( invisible, not there ), it consists of a simple hitbox, about 15x15m big. The object is placed around the ( stationary ) unit you want to add a reaction time to it. What will happen: The unit will engage aircraft as usual. But the hitbox around it will absorb the fire, meaning no fire gets away from the unit. After a certain amount of time the hitbox gets destroyed and the path to the targets is free. This time when the fire is cought in the hitbox is our simulated reaction time when no aircraft can be engaged.

I created 4 versions of ReactDelay now and spent the afternoon scaling the hitpoints for various units. There are versions that block AAA for about 20 or 45 seconds, or block the first 2 missiles of the Strela-10 etc.

I think this is pretty cool. You can have heavily defended targets that can be "surprised" by a quick attack and after about a minute when the AD "wakes up" there is no more comming trough.

 

This is a pretty rough methode, but quite effective. I know we will get something like this with the more realistic AI in BS ( at least I expect so ), but this is a good workaround until then.

 

 

AreaGoal

 

Creating good mission goals is sometimes not easy as most mission designers know. Lets say you want the player to attack a camp, artillery site or vehicle park. What goal that decides mission failure or success do we use ? If you add a destroy goal to every unit in the camp, the player must destroy them all to succeed. If you add the destroy goal to only one unit in the camp, the player migh do heavy damage but miss the one target with the goal attached, thus failing the mission. With AreaGoal this is a thing of the past.

 

AreaGoal is a invisible object, only consisting of a hitbox, 500x500m wide on the ground. It will not hinder the placement or fire of other units in the area. The object is no real goal, but a object to attach your mission goal to it.

 

You can place the AreaGoal object in the target area and add a destroy goal to it. When the player attacks the general target position, he might hit or miss some tanks, but the 500x500m AreaGoal bellow it gets destroyed.

This gives us the possibility to have more realistic mission objectives for the Su-25. As we know, the Su-25 is mostly used to attack enemy positions, not specific targets. So if the player goes in and drops his weapons in the designated area, the mission is considered a success. This is realistic because pilots are tasked to attack something, not especialy to destroy it ( although that would be preferable ). What amount of damage they cause is often not in the hands of a pilot. With AreaGoal we can tribute such attacks.

 

 

 

I am very enthusiastic about those two objects, as this is stuff that I wanted for a long time. What surprises me is the simplicity of the ideas. I have been thinking about the possible application of the static objects for weeks now, but this morning on my way to work the idea struck me like a lightning :)

[GGTharos]

This is excellent work :) Hopefully ED will enhance the capabilities for such objects in Black Shark as well!

[fragal]

Wow gr8 work, looking forward to the first object pack :D rep inbound :thumbup:

[EvilBivol-1]

Wow, way to use ED's 3rd party tools.

 

Have another rep.

 

:notworthy:

[MBot]

I was playtesting the ReactDelay a bit today and run into a strange problem. The SAMs I tested will all shoot their missiles trough the ReactDelay "shield" when fired at targets beyond 1000-1500m range ( depends on SAM type ). When fired at targets closer than 1000m the missiles will explode on the ReactDelay as expected. AAA is not affected by this and will be blocked at all engagement ranges.

[Witchking]

wonderful out of the box thinking Mbot! :D really good. this is definately a welcome addition to immersion.

[GGTharos]

MBot, doesn't your React Delay also absorb incoming fire? ...

 

Anyway, good work, but I think that's one object you might want to abandon.

[MBot]

MBot, doesn't your React Delay also absorb incoming fire? ...

 

Yes it does, unfortunatly the sides of he hitbox are 2-sided, not directional.

Therefore it makes the object unsuited for units that might be attacked. Still I think the object has its use, I can think of various scenarios where the player should not attack AD units ( actualy most cases for the Su-25 ).

Such delayed AD can be used to cover pretty much the whole battlefield to force the player to keep moving and use different ingress and egress routes. Delayed AD is also suited to defend target areas the player is expected to attack, beacause he simply wont have the time to attack AD. In most my scenarios it will be one run in, drop all ordenance and get the hell out of there.

I think this whole "eliminate all AD units first then kill every single target" approach that is so popular in Lock On is pretty unrealistic anyway.