CCRP bombs

[witwas]

Hi Guys,

 

It seems that it is nearly impossible to drop a bridge or any other small object with CCRP bombs.

 

Is it me? Or am i expecting to much from an interceptor?

[razo+r]

Hi Guys,

 

It seems that it is nearly impossible to drop a bridge or any other small object with CCRP bombs.

 

Is it me? Or am i expecting to much from an interceptor?

 

Radar ranging on?

Did you alling the horizontal lines with the "spinning" one?

 

You can hit on spot with ccrp if you are doing it correctly

[jojo]

Yes you can do it, but you need practice and it's better to release a full bomb load at once (like 4 x Mk 82).

 

IRL the CEP with Mk 82 for planes like F-16/ Mirage 2000 would be around 20m.

 

Plus the area blast damage is almost non existent in DCS so you need direct hit to destroy the target.

 

Usually a bride would be targeted with LGB (GBU-12/ 16, not sure of GBU-24 status in DCS but it's on ED side).

[witwas]

Thanks for the advice,

 

@ Razo+r: what do you mean by Radar ranging?

[jojo]

Thanks for the advice,

 

@ Razo+r: what do you mean by Radar ranging?

 

This is about trigonometry...

 

You have 2 options for ranging:

- TAS (Télémétrie Air Sol) = radar ranging. The radar is used to asses slant range and thanks to INS the angle of the LOS is known.

- RS (Radio Sonde) = the radio altimeter gives height over the ground, the INS gives the LOS angle and the slant range is computed. If the terrain isn't flat you have errors in the slant range computation.

 

The system needs to know height over target and range to target (and off course flight parameters) to compute a firing solution.

 

RS is a back-up mode, TAS is the main sensor.

 

LOS = Line Of Sight.

[Joni]

I too see this "problem" and all videos I've seen teaching how to use CCRP with mk82 missed the target by a quite large margin.

 

The only CCRP precise delivery was de INS bombing and its currently broken..

[myHelljumper]

I have good precision with free fall bomb without using INS bombing.

[Joni]

Can you post a track so we can see how its done? One that hits a tank or something like that.

 

Im very interested in doing so, just couldnt and never saw someone who has been able to.

[razo+r]

[Joni]

 

Yoy are not marking the target or at lesst the cross doesnt appear. Besides thats not normal ccrp! Why would anyone dive if using ccrp?

 

Good hits though!

[Esac_mirmidon]

He is marking the target, look at the extended horizontal bars at both sides of the designator.

 

And you need to dive for marking the target, if not it will be below your nose. In this example he is attakcing very close, this is why he needs to dive so much for marking. If you attack from far away you can dive, mark and regain horizontal flight before. Alsp i think they changed the way a target is marked in CCRP sometime ago removing the cross on eh HUD because is how is depicted in real life. But i´m not sure about that.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[razo+r]

Yoy are not marking the target or at lesst the cross doesnt appear. Besides thats not normal ccrp! Why would anyone dive if using ccrp?

 

Good hits though!

 

That wasn't me and it was 1.5.5, i'm sure some things changed since then. And it was a showcase, i'm sure, if anyone would engage trucks, then with guns or rockets. And diving can make it more accurate but i have never tried not diving since obviously i want to hit my target.

[Joni]

Currently when marking the target there is a cross on it, thats why I didnt understand. Maybe it changed back.

 

Also, perhaps it was "easier" on 1.5.5, right now it works as the OP says. Its very inaccurate.

 

Ill keep trying!

[razo+r]

Just found another CCRP footage from a RAZBAM dev:

 

 

sometimes far, sometimes near but looks like sometimes he didn't want it to be too accurate

[lemoen]

It works very well if:

 

1. You mark the target accurately

2. You fly EXACTLY according to the flight director

 

Doing these two things well enough to directly hit a tank becomes very difficult.

 

Also, at the moment, the bombs overshoot if you release them level, if you keep a shallow dive they fall in the correct place.

[Joni]

It works very well if:

 

1. You mark the target accurately

2. You fly EXACTLY according to the flight director

 

Doing these two things well enough to directly hit a tank becomes very difficult.

 

Also, at the moment, the bombs overshoot if you release them level, if you keep a shallow dive they fall in the correct place.

 

Ok so it is how the OP said since we were referring to level CCRP.

 

Is it a bug?

[lemoen]

Ok so it is how the OP said since we were referring to level CCRP.

 

Is it a bug?

 

Yes, its a bug.

[Joni]

Good to know, Ill try to dive a bit more tonight and share.

[jojo]

Yoy are not marking the target or at lesst the cross doesnt appear. Besides thats not normal ccrp! Why would anyone dive if using ccrp?

 

Good hits though!

 

The cross in the HUD is just a waypoint at less than 10Nm inside HUD FoV.

 

You don't know to put a waypoint on the target to attack it. It's just a help to find it visually.

 

For the dive, this is how the business is done in the M-2000C, and it's a bit like MiG 29.

You have to designate the target with the HUD. So you have to dive.

 

See the video at 10mn:

http://www.ina.fr/video/CPC08003568

Mirage 2000N but same system.

IT'S NOT A BUG, YOU CAN'T DO LEVEL DESIGNATION WITH M-2000C !!!

 

it's like 100 times I say this and post this video !

Yes it's called CCRP, but this isn't the CCRP you experienced on F-16 or F/A-18 sim before...that's something different.

Edited August 1, 2017 by jojo

[Joni]

Lol! Take it easy buddy.

 

We are not talking about that. The bug we say is the level delivery after having marked the target.

 

Wow!

[myHelljumper]

It would be CCIP-CR in the A-10 I believe.

[jojo]

Lol! Take it easy buddy.

 

We are not talking about that. The bug we say is the level delivery after having marked the target.

 

Wow!

 

After the designation, the procedure is full aft stick, it can even release during the climb. The system release the bomb when it's supposed to be. It's only a matter of pull up distance.

If you're close it will release still in the dive, if you're far, it will release in climb.

 

There is no susch thing as "level CCRP" in M-2000C. And the cross target has nothing to do with target designation during CCRP.

Edited August 1, 2017 by jojo

[Joni]

After the designation, the procedure is full aft stick, it can even release during the climb. The system release the bomb when it's supposed to be. It's only a matter of pull up distance.

If you're close it will release still in the dive, if you're far, it will release in climb.

 

There is no susch thing as "level CCRP" in M-2000C. And the cross target has nothing to do with target designation during CCRP.

 

So you re basically saying im right :huh:

[Esac_mirmidon]

No.

 

One thing is bomb accuracy.

 

Other the process to release bombs in CCRP in the Mirage.

 

And it has been said a lot of times in different threads about bombing accuracy that in this type of fighters that uses only INS, Radar altimeter and radar to calculate the impact point the CEP could be even more than 20 meters.

 

So, even marking perfect over the target with the radar, having the INS updated just after the IP, doing the perfect nose up maneuver and releasing the bomb in the proper way following the HUD align indications there are ALWAYS an inherent deviation ( CEP ) of 20 meters as average.

 

Is inevitable.

 

If you want accuracy you need at least a laser designator, or precision guide munitions.

 

Or a better blast effect in DCS. XDDD

[Joni]

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you. Im just saying that there is a bug where bombs overshoot 100% of the times when doing level CCRP just as the manual and chucks guide say.

 

I dont want to put a bomb into a window.