Jump to content

Feature Request: Realistic Mustang Start-up Dynamics


Magic Zach
 Share

Recommended Posts

Starting the Mustang in DCS is far too easy. When the engine catches, it tends to stay caught pretty well. I can start the Mustang easily with no misfires, yet I believe that is not realistic. There are dozens of videos that show starting the Mustang's Packard Merlin isn't that easy.

Skip to 14 seconds in:

This one was a bit odd:

However, I'm not saying all startups aren't smooth:

This Mustang got raped, but regardless, skip to 2:45:

Skip to 1:03:

Also this one:

Also, if sounds could be changed AND smoke effects (with over-priming fire) would be added, that would be nice. I think the normal start should sound rather like the "exhaust start" in the Mustang's sounds that never seems to be used...

 

•Blue oil smoke effects in sync with the cylinders when they slowly start firing.

•Small burst of fire when over-priming, though I'm not 100% sure on this one.

•New and better sounds (I actually removed my original "Starter.wav" sound for the Mustang and replaced it with the "Exhaust Start.wav" sound)

•More realistic "Start-up dynamics".

•While starting, the engine may change directions and rotate counter-clockwise for 1/4 or 1/8 of a rotation, before continuing clockwise. This should happen in accordance with what causes this.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless something has changed, different ambient air temps can and do affect the startup procedures and ease.

I have been in a couple server missions where the Mustang was very difficult to start without going through a cold-startup procedure ... and even then we often fried our starters and had to jump into a new cockpit (cause at the time at least, Repair didn't fix the starter).

This was a year ago so it may well be much different now for all I know and I haven't flown the Mustang for at least 4 months.

SnowTiger:joystick:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't prime it if you want it harder to start.

 

You're not contributing to the cause...

 

Unless something has changed, different ambient air temps can and do affect the startup procedures and ease.

I have been in a couple server missions where the Mustang was very difficult to start without going through a cold-startup procedure ... and even then we often fried our starters and had to jump into a new cockpit (cause at the time at least, Repair didn't fix the starter).

This was a year ago so it may well be much different now for all I know and I haven't flown the Mustang for at least 4 months.

 

While I am aware that temperature can affect the ease of start-up (I once tried starting the Mustang in -30F, took me about 4 tries) but with the regular temperature, and other such weather, I'm still convinced starting the 51 up is too easy regardless. I'd like someone who has flown or at least been in the backseat of a 51D to say something here about this.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brand new, you'd have to wear her in first.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well there's that, granted. However, some DCS aircraft have an engine efficiency slider which by default is at 90% IIRC, so maybe this is the default for the Stang as well? I.e. a new, but still run-in, engine.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waitaminnit what? Where? The birds slide under Gameplay, or in ME?? This is news to me! :3

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting the Mustang in DCS is far too easy. When the engine catches, it tends to stay caught pretty well. I can start the Mustang easily with no misfires, yet I believe that is not realistic. There are dozens of videos that show starting the Mustang's Packard Merlin isn't that easy.

Skip to 14 seconds in:

This one was a bit odd:

However, I'm not saying all startups aren't smooth:

This Mustang got raped, but regardless, skip to 2:45:https://youtu.be/TZEbooZsGhs

Skip to 1:03:https://youtu.be/WlsH0aeQJoM

Also, if sounds could be changed AND smoke effects (with over-priming fire) would be added, that would be nice. I think the normal start should sound rather like the "exhaust start" in the Mustang's sounds that never seems to be used...

 

How about any other plane in the game? Every plane is straight from factory.Current engines are modified 70 year old relics.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's because I didn't consider it a legitimate cause. My buddy flies a P-51 and it starts up every time.
Awesome! Does he play DCS?

I am simply saying that starting the Mustang in DCS is different than in real life. A real one coughs. It puffs. It slowly starts to catch, instead of split-second like in DCS. And the engine will sometimes go silent for a small moment, and then continue.

All this we don't have in the DCS: P-51D Mustang. It would be an awesome effect to have a puff of blue smoke when cylinders start firing.

Real: "Put...put put...put...put, put, put put put putputputput*catches*"

DCS: "Whirwhir(starter)whirwhirwhir *catches*"

Don't criticise me for writing engine sounds That was what I mean by "It slowly starts to catch".

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, that's true and the way it starts on the real plane. It would be nice if we had that in DCS.

 

Here's my bud in the Mustang. An old fart like me.

 

29973090546_325fa02a5c_b.jpg

Sweetness! Looks like a razorback...what variant? I don't have the privilege of watching a real Mustang. We don't get many airshows up here in AK, and the one we do get is a long-*** drive away.

So, what do we got?

•Blue oil smoke effects in sync with the cylinders when they slowly start firing.

•Small burst of fire when over-priming, though I'm not 100% sure on this one.

•New and better sounds (I actually removed my original "Starter.wav" sound for the Mustang and replaced it with the "Exhaust Start.wav" sound)

•More realistic "Start-up dynamics".

•While starting, the engine may change directions and rotate counter-clockwise for 1/4 or 1/8 of a rotation, before continuing clockwise. This should happen in accordance with what causes this.

 

That's my list.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I may make a small contribution? It was pretty standard practice in wartime for the ground crews to warm up the engines in readiness of a mission and prior to the pilots climbing in the cockpit, this ensured that to the minute group takeoffs were feasible and no one was left behind with a non starter or waiting for the coolant temperatures to get in the green.

 

If the squad were at readiness, the ground crews would warm the engines throughout the day.

 

Therefore it is perfectly feasible that the stang engine would start readily on most missions, even post maintenance test hops.

System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I'm missing something. By "warming up" you don't mean starting up first, but they are...

Because if you're saying that because the ground crew started and warmed it up, then that makes it easier to start all-round? By warm up, you mean start and run for 5 minutes every x number of hours, or they had heaters of a sort for them? And if they started the engines, wouldn't that waste (in a way) fuel? I read your post, and I feel like I'm reading a book by bouncing between pages 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, and 12.

o.O

Fill in the missing pages for me!


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that "warming up" was a part of pre-flight check, especially in case of external fuel tanks were instaled.

They had to be checked for any fuel leakage and it was possible only with engine running.

F-14A/B

P-51D | P-47D | Mosquito FB Mk VI |Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K |  WWII Assets Pack

Normandy | The Channel

F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | Syria | PG | NTTR | CA | SC |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are supposed to warm up the engine to a certain temperature after a cold start. That temperature, I can't remember exactly. I warm my oil temp to 40C, and I roll...should probably open up a pdf of a manual some time...

 

Edit: I'm surprised that Sithspawn or Skatezilla haven't blown into this thread yet.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have something to add to the list. Please see the third video in the original post.

•While starting, the engine may change directions and rotate counter-clockwise for 1/4 or 1/8 of a rotation, before continuing clockwise.

This should happen in accordance with what causes this. If anyone knows, please speak up, and links would give you a gold star sticker.

 

Some Spits. This one was smooth and quick:

Also smooth:

The flames in DCS are more realistic than I thought. Guess this guy overprimed:

Skip to 2:40:

Training Spitfire, I think. And I don't know what a recalcitrant start-up is, but still worth looking at:

Yet another smooth one:

 

I've noticed that most of the rough start-ups in the Spitfire Mk IX have flames, and I assume from over-priming. In DCS, I give it 5 pumps, and I get flames. Obviously, I don't know how many these guys did, and the weather is different, so my view on this over-priming may be skewed. I have a bad habit of only looking at the manuals by ED, not the ones from the '40s.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
Not all AC have this, but the BST choppers at least do.

 

AS far as I remember, it was started from Ka-50... Ahh, Mi-8 has the same engnes :)

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome! Does he play DCS?

I am simply saying that starting the Mustang in DCS is different than in real life. A real one coughs. It puffs. It slowly starts to catch, instead of split-second like in DCS. And the engine will sometimes go silent for a small moment, and then continue.

All this we don't have in the DCS: P-51D Mustang. It would be an awesome effect to have a puff of blue smoke when cylinders start firing.

Real: "Put...put put...put...put, put, put put put putputputput*catches*"

DCS: "Whirwhir(starter)whirwhirwhir *catches*"

Don't criticise me for writing engine sounds That was what I mean by "It slowly starts to catch".

 

I am CERTAINLY not criticising your engine sounds via keyboard! To be sure, this is why I post this. Your description is exactly what I have seen the Merlins do. Jay Leno has a trailer mounted Merlin with a beautiful shiny prop. I watched him on YT struggle with a start. Awesome video, too.

 

For the sake of reality in a study sim, the startups as you described would be one helluva finishing touch to the DCS Pony.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the sake of reality in a study sim, the startups as you described would be one helluva finishing touch to the DCS Pony.

Exactly the reason I'm bringing this up. :)

 

Ey! Yo-Yo! The reptilian has slithered his way in!

Anyways, Yo-Yo, got anything to contribute to this thread? Should this be moved to the wishlist section? I've added "Feature Request" into the title. Got videos, agreements, disagreements? I realize that while the Spit is still in...some sort of stage of progress, the Mustang has been around a lot now. However(my favorite word), I think that this damage model coming up will be a big step for the DCS: WWII community, and in addition to that, some things should be added, fixed, or changed, other than the damage models.

If this is added, it will be a thrill for the DCS: WWII community for not JUST the Mustang to get realistic start-up dynamics, but ALL of the WWII aircraft. The 109, 190, Spitfire LF Mk. IXc, and there is no better time to have a feature (or features) like this while the P-47D-30 is still in ED's shop, still getting pieced together.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...