AV-8B II+ vs AV-8B II N/A

[Pilot909]

Is the AV-8B night attack in active use with the USMC? Was it EVER in use with them?

 

All I see them using is the AV-8B II+ which is practically the same thing but with an APG-65 radar. Was developing the radar the thing that pushed razbam to the NA variant instead?

 

hmmmm:huh:

[BlowTorch]

Is the AV-8B night attack in active use with the USMC? Was it EVER in use with them?

 

All I see them using is the AV-8B II+ which is practically the same thing but with an APG-65 radar. Was developing the radar the thing that pushed razbam to the NA variant instead?

 

hmmmm:huh:

According to wikipedia, AV-8B II+ are expected to remain in service until 2025. I doubt there is any remaining night attack harrier still in use, but they used them. The night attack upgrade came around 1991, just after gulf war, and they participated in Op. Southern Watch. The + variant came around 1993, and the addition of a radar was thought to be worth losing the ARBS. Night attack harriers were still in use during OIF and OEF, but the majority were already upgraded to the +

 

This is a night attack refuelling in Irak, with a laser mav and probably a litening on the opposite side.

 

This book is a nice read about the harriers in Irak:

 

And yes, afaik they are developing the NA because of the lack of ground radar, maybe we will get the + once the radar code has been released by ED with the hornet

[iLOVEwindmills]

Aren't they still serving alongside the plus?

[Sealpup]

Likely. My understanding is that the radars for the plus came from Hornets that were being upgraded to Super-bugs rather than new built units. So only so many radars to go around for upgrading Harriers, while having enough left aside for spares.

[BlowTorch]

Aren't they still serving alongside the plus?

After some search, it looks that the night attack is still in use:

This is supposed to be a VMA-311 night attack on the LHD-6 in June this year, testing the APKWS, with two rockets (now missiles?) showing in the front of that LAU68, normal hydras aren't that long.

[Cunctator]

That bird still has the old tri color paint scheme. Aren't all Harriers are painted in gunship gray (FS 36118) over blue gray FS 35237 now (since 2010+?

 

The Harrier II pilot working with Razbam wrote some ago on reddit that all NA planes are now just used for training and not longer on deployments.

[Vampyre]

That bird still has the old tri color paint scheme. Aren't all Harriers are painted in gunship gray (FS 36118) over blue gray FS 35237 now (since 2010+?

 

That actually means nothing. Due to rather stringent environmental laws, the jets would only get a total repaint when they go in to a rework facility and that is dictated by flight hours. Other than that they would need a waver and access to a paint hangar, which not every base has. The squadrons corrosion shops are only authorized to do paint touch up and markings on a regular basis. Depending on where the jet was before VMA-311 had it for testing the APKWS and how much it was actually flown, it is very possible that that jet has not gone to a Naval Air Rework Facility since the new scheme hit the fleet.

[Prowler111]

Night Attacks are pretty much still being used, i can´t comment on our sources, but they are pretty much active while their numbers are going down, it´s my idea they will use them till the are worn out

[frixon28]

Is the AV-8B night attack in active use with the USMC? Was it EVER in use with them?

 

All I see them using is the AV-8B II+ which is practically the same thing but with an APG-65 radar. Was developing the radar the thing that pushed razbam to the NA variant instead?

 

hmmmm:huh:

 

Google is your best friend...but yes as others have mentioned it is in service still

[Kev2go]

Likely. My understanding is that the radars for the plus came from Hornets that were being upgraded to Super-bugs rather than new built units. So only so many radars to go around for upgrading Harriers, while having enough left aside for spares.

 

you cant upgrade a legacy hornet into a superbug.:)

 

i think you mean that this would have occured when legacy hornets were getting thier AN/APG73 radars ( or new Hornets with such radar) and or when units transitioned from the Hornet to SUperHornet is when An/APG65's were becoming available for the harriers.

 

TBH Harriers gorund attack potentional would have been even better if they had the AN/APG73 Phase 2 . Those have High resolution SAR imaging. But i guess too much $$ as USMC preferred the "surplus" AN/APG 65 option.

[Sealpup]

you cant upgrade a legacy hornet into a superbug.:)

 

i think you mean that this would have occured when legacy hornets were getting thier AN/APG73 radars ( or new Hornets with such radar) and or when units transitioned from the Hornet to SUperHornet is when An/APG65's were becoming available for the harriers.

 

TBH Harriers gorund attack potentional would have been even better if they had the AN/APG73 Phase 2 . Those have High resolution SAR imaging. But i guess too much $$ as USMC preferred the "surplus" AN/APG 65 option.

 

That may be the case. I know they're old bug radars from an upgrade program, for some reason I thought they were super-bug upgrades.

[Prowler111]

you cant upgrade a legacy hornet into a superbug.:)

 

i think you mean that this would have occured when legacy hornets were getting thier AN/APG73 radars ( or new Hornets with such radar) and or when units transitioned from the Hornet to SUperHornet is when An/APG65's were becoming available for the harriers.

 

TBH Harriers gorund attack potentional would have been even better if they had the AN/APG73 Phase 2 . Those have High resolution SAR imaging. But i guess too much $$ as USMC preferred the "surplus" AN/APG 65 option.

 

In reality, the USMC was not really interested in a "plus" upgrade at all, since the cost was prohibitive, they jumped in the wagon since Spain and Italy were interested in a multipurpose aircraft for their respective navies, and the whole project was the only way to get such an aircraft, given the numbers and shared risk between the 3, the "plus" became a reality. UK was not interested since back then they already had the SHAR F.2

[shagrat]

According to wikipedia, AV-8B II+ are expected to remain in service until 2025. I doubt there is any remaining night attack harrier still in use, but they used them. The night attack upgrade came around 1991, just after gulf war, and they participated in Op. Southern Watch. The + variant came around 1993, and the addition of a radar was thought to be worth losing the ARBS. Night attack harriers were still in use during OIF and OEF, but the majority were already upgraded to the +

 

And yes, afaik they are developing the NA because of the lack of ground radar, maybe we will get the + once the radar code has been released by ED with the hornet

 

Even more interesting they wrote in "AV-8Bs of OIF I-IV" and "AV-8Bs of OEF" that the NA being the more precise bombing platform, as the ARBS was better suited to locate and lock ground targets reliably in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So from what I've read they usually combined the AV-8B plus with at least one AV-8B N/A in a flight.

 

To me it seems, they saw a lot of action in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Prowler111]

Even more interesting they wrote in "AV-8Bs of OIF I-IV" and "AV-8Bs of OEF" that the NA being the more precise bombing platform, as the ARBS was better suited to locate and lock ground targets reliably in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So from what I've read they usually combined the AV-8B plus with at least one AV-8B N/A in a flight.

 

To me it seems, they saw a lot of action in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

To add some info on that (once again i can´t discuss my sources) NA´s are still pretty much active (while in lesser numbers...and those numbers are going down steadily) , and most pilots prefer the NA over the Plus since it´s lighter, not so much nose heavy, and allows you to get back on the deck with either more fuel or some ordnance still hanging under the wings (a HUGE no-no in the plus), and while the Plus does have it´s advantages, like a ground mapping radar and capacity to acquire moving targets either on the ground or sea, the main sensor currently in use in these aircraft is the Litening II FLIR/targeting pod, or ground lasing, making the use of the radar superfluous. While under USMC use the Plus can be considered a "nice to have" capacity, in Spain and Italy´s navies, it´s a critical feature, given the fact that above all the functions they perform in the same way as the USMC, they are also "fleet defenders", and their pilots are versed in air to air combat.

[Prowler111]

Present day picture of 2 A-10´s and a AV-8B NA and a Plus at Reno, Nevada

 

https://i.redd.it/kai2lorw9kmz.jpg

[Prowler111]

[Sealpup]

Sooo... you guys going to give us a KC-130? ^.^

[shagrat]

Sooo... you guys going to give us a KC-130? ^.^

That would be cool...

[Zeus67]

Even more interesting they wrote in "AV-8Bs of OIF I-IV" and "AV-8Bs of OEF" that the NA being the more precise bombing platform, as the ARBS was better suited to locate and lock ground targets reliably in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So from what I've read they usually combined the AV-8B plus with at least one AV-8B N/A in a flight.

 

To me it seems, they saw a lot of action in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Indeed the ARBS is more accurate than radar when doing bombing runs. One of the reasons why the AV-8B Plus carry TPODs, to get back some of that capability.

[Fri13]

Indeed the ARBS is more accurate than radar when doing bombing runs. One of the reasons why the AV-8B Plus carry TPODs, to get back some of that capability.

 

And as well far I have understood from the interviews and documents etc, the DMT was still more accurate than a TPOD (TGP in F/A-18C Super Hornets) why the N/A variant was kept as 1/3 in the service instead all updated to the + model.

 

So only way to get as accurate bombing was to use the TPOD and laser guided bombs, that added expenses.