DCS and Pimax

[dogbite]

I actually get more frustrated with the other sims developers tbh, as whereas the DCS devs are aware there is work to be done, and improvements to be made, the others seem to take the position that their VR implementation is perfect and finished, and therefore we can expect no more development. Both sims could do alot better with VR, but that said I am grateful for what we already have with both.

 

 

Hopefully this will help https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3869786&postcount=2333

[glassy99]

Hi, new Pimax + DCS user here.

Hoping VR Zoom for Pimax gets fixed so it doesn't need parallel projections.

I thought I wouldn't need it at first as I use snap views for getting a closer look at the instruments ... but VR zoom is useful for getting a closer look at everything outside the plane. Now I just close one eye when I use it LOL.

Edited April 21, 2019 by glassy99

[wolle]

I have a question about the VR zoom function. A quick survey of the posts here leads me to believe that the main issue people are having is that the zoomed image appears cross eyed. That's not my experience. The way I would describe it is that when I activate zoom, for looking at instruments, they move in closer but become smaller rather than bigger.

 

It is as if I take an object in real life and bring it closer to my eye and everything gets smaller. Am I doing something wrong?

[moespeeds]

Anyone else with a pimax5k get god rays when they turn parallel projections on?

[Rosebud47]

...The way I would describe it is that when I activate zoom, for looking at instruments, they move in closer but become smaller rather than bigger.

 

It is as if I take an object in real life and bring it closer to my eye and everything gets smaller. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Exactly the impression I get, when VR zooming with parallel projection activated.

 

BTW parallel projection isn´t really needed for DCS, luckily, as it is on cost of some system performance.

[moespeeds]

Without Parallel Projections, on the Pimax I get a badly cross-eyed image. You aren't getting this? Or you don't use a Pimax? I did not have this issue with the Oculus.

[Naruto]

Without Parallel Projections, on the Pimax I get a badly cross-eyed image. You aren't getting this? Or you don't use a Pimax? I did not have this issue with the Oculus.

 

Yes, you need PP for pimax to get Vr zoom working as the cost of lowering FPS. You dont need PP if you VR zoom with one eye closed.

[moespeeds]

That's what I thought, was wondering if Voight had some magical fix we don't know about.

[wolle]

where do I enable/disable PP in PiTool? Is it the "compatible with parallel projection" check box in HMD Settings?

[funkyfranky]

where do I enable/disable PP in PiTool? Is it the "compatible with parallel projection" check box in HMD Settings?

yes, but dont ;)

[hansangb]

Without Parallel Projections, on the Pimax I get a badly cross-eyed image. You aren't getting this? Or you don't use a Pimax? I did not have this issue with the Oculus.

 

There is no cross-eyed effect. This is with parallel projection off. However, as others have stated, when you zoom in, there is a cross over effect. Maybe play with the physical IPD setting on the P5K+ to make sure that's crystal clear?

[Rosebud47]

VR zoom is currently not working properly with Pimax, whether with or without parallel projection.

Also tried different IPD settings in DCS setup and in the stereo.lua file, which is the same, but without effect on the VR zoom issue.

Also tried different values of the image bounderies in the stereo.lua, like it could be adjusted with a workaround for the Odyssey cross eyed effect, but as well without any effect on the Pimax VR zoom issue. Hope someone finds a solution sooner or later.

[Rosebud47]

Just made a very nice experience I´d like to share.

 

After installing the new Nvidia driver, had some fiddeling around with all settings and came to the conclusion, that the settings in Pitool are not good. Pitool render setting at 1.0 actually renders far to high and SteamVR SS need to be pushed down to 40% to get close to the native resolution of 2560 x 1440.

 

So I finally set the Pitool Rendertarget to 0.5 and SteamVR SS to 140% to avoid any downsampling through SteamVR and come close to the native resolution.

 

Meanwhile I think most of the Pitool Settings are crap, like fixed foveated rendering and the render target presets.

 

Somehow the PD adjustment in DCS VR menu does not show in the SteamVR SS override resolution calculation.

But the rendertarget settings of the Pitool shows in the resolution of SteamVR SS override.

 

My thought was to keep the upsampling process on side of SteamVR, not Pitool, so final settings are now:

Pitool everything off except smart smoothing on. Pitool Rendertarget at 0.5

SteamVR SS at 200%, which results in a render resolution of 3018 x 1861 pixel

DCS VR menu PD at 1.2 as it is really good to sharpen the image and get rid of most of the shimmering.

 

These settings are a little bit too high at the moment but in result the image clarity and sharpness is really good with very less shimmering compared to other settings.

Flying with the Tomcat at 10.000 feet into the sunset over Nevadas Mountains was just breathtaking.

 

The performance with these settings are much better than with Pitool rendertarget at 1.0 and a downsampled SteamVR SS.

With the Tomcat, the MiG, and Huey I got very solid and stable 36 FPS @72Hz and a smooth experience left and right outside the cockpit. With all three models the GPU Frametime was between 15 and 20 ms. With the Huey NOE flight the frametime was a bit over 20 most of the time. A low level flight with the Tomcat and the MiG over the Strip in Las Vegas also pushed the average frametime a little up, but once past the Strip and flew up or to Nellis, the frametime gets back to 15-17ms.

The optimum frametime in VR is 11ms, so 16ms are really good for DCS, I think.

 

So my recommendation would be to set the render target in Pitool at 0.5.

Then the PD in DCS VR menu set at 1.1 or 1.2. A PD setting in DCS VR menu to 1.3 was too much too handle.

Then set the supersampling override in SteamVR between 140 - 200% depending on to your system/GPU. Then only adjust the performance within SteamVR SS setting.

 

 

System: 2080Ti Pimax 5k+ @Large field of view, 72Hz, smart smoothing activated. Contrast +2, Brightness -1. DCS stereo.lua edited, Nvidia 430.36 settings all to default/application controlled.

[glassy99]

So my recommendation would be to set the render target in Pitool at 0.5.

Then the PD in DCS VR menu set at 1.1 or 1.2. A PD setting in DCS VR menu to 1.3 was too much too handle.

Then set the supersampling override in SteamVR between 140 - 200% depending on to your system/GPU. Then only adjust the performance within SteamVR SS setting.

 

 

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I will try that out.

 

Also, I wonder if you (or anyone else) has tried:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239102

 

And if it makes a difference?

I've tried it but not really sure.

[A Hamburgler]

Just made a very nice experience I´d like to share.

 

My thought was to keep the upsampling process on side of SteamVR, not Pitool, so final settings are now:

Pitool everything off except smart smoothing on. Pitool Rendertarget at 0.5

SteamVR SS at 200%, which results in a render resolution of 3018 x 1861 pixel

DCS VR menu PD at 1.2 as it is really good to sharpen the image and get rid of most of the shimmering.

Thanks man I really likes these settings and get good frames with them too.

[Rosebud47]

Welcome! Now the only thing needed is the Spring Update for the MiG21, Black Shark Cockpit Update, VR Optimization for the terrain and Vulcan API. :)

 

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I will try that out.

 

Also, I wonder if you (or anyone else) has tried:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239102

 

And if it makes a difference?

I've tried it but not really sure.

 

It´s difficult to proove the effect of an edited stereo.lua, as it depends on subjective point of view.

For me I found the picture clarity in the Pimax slightly better, than with the original stereo.lua.

Anyway, there´s a ´steamvr.dll´ file somewehere in the DCS folders, which correspond back to steamVR to demand the correct resolution from DCS game engine for the particular Hedaset connected via steamVR compositor to the computer.

 

But defining precisely the resolution and aspect ratio of the Pimax within the stereo.lua doesn´t hurt. The editing in the stereo.lua does effect the graphics in VR. How much and if within visable range, has to be decided by trying. Anyway it could be simply copied back the original values and everything is fine.

So I could have adjusted my real IPD within the stereo.lua, which is 32 for left eye and 31 for right eye ( in total 63 ).

[hansangb]

Welcome! Now the only thing needed is the Spring Update for the MiG21, Black Shark Cockpit Update, VR Optimization for the terrain and Vulcan API. :)

 

 

 

It´s difficult to proove the effect of an edited stereo.lua, as it depends on subjective point of view.

For me I found the picture clarity in the Pimax slightly better, than with the original stereo.lua.

Anyway, there´s a ´steamvr.dll´ file somewehere in the DCS folders, which correspond back to steamVR to demand the correct resolution from DCS game engine for the particular Hedaset connected via steamVR compositor to the computer.

 

But defining precisely the resolution and aspect ratio of the Pimax within the stereo.lua doesn´t hurt. The editing in the stereo.lua does effect the graphics in VR. How much and if within visable range, has to be decided by trying. Anyway it could be simply copied back the original values and everything is fine.

So I could have adjusted my real IPD within the stereo.lua, which is 32 for left eye and 31 for right eye ( in total 63 ).

 

Will give it a shot. Thanks

[Phantom88]

Just made a very nice experience I´d like to share.

 

After installing the new Nvidia driver, had some fiddeling around with all settings and came to the conclusion, that the settings in Pitool are not good. Pitool render setting at 1.0 actually renders far to high and SteamVR SS need to be pushed down to 40% to get close to the native resolution of 2560 x 1440.

 

So I finally set the Pitool Rendertarget to 0.5 and SteamVR SS to 140% to avoid any downsampling through SteamVR and come close to the native resolution.

 

Meanwhile I think most of the Pitool Settings are crap, like fixed foveated rendering and the render target presets.

 

Somehow the PD adjustment in DCS VR menu does not show in the SteamVR SS override resolution calculation.

But the rendertarget settings of the Pitool shows in the resolution of SteamVR SS override.

 

My thought was to keep the upsampling process on side of SteamVR, not Pitool, so final settings are now:

Pitool everything off except smart smoothing on. Pitool Rendertarget at 0.5

SteamVR SS at 200%, which results in a render resolution of 3018 x 1861 pixel

DCS VR menu PD at 1.2 as it is really good to sharpen the image and get rid of most of the shimmering.

 

These settings are a little bit too high at the moment but in result the image clarity and sharpness is really good with very less shimmering compared to other settings.

Flying with the Tomcat at 10.000 feet into the sunset over Nevadas Mountains was just breathtaking.

 

The performance with these settings are much better than with Pitool rendertarget at 1.0 and a downsampled SteamVR SS.

With the Tomcat, the MiG, and Huey I got very solid and stable 36 FPS @72Hz and a smooth experience left and right outside the cockpit. With all three models the GPU Frametime was between 15 and 20 ms. With the Huey NOE flight the frametime was a bit over 20 most of the time. A low level flight with the Tomcat and the MiG over the Strip in Las Vegas also pushed the average frametime a little up, but once past the Strip and flew up or to Nellis, the frametime gets back to 15-17ms.

The optimum frametime in VR is 11ms, so 16ms are really good for DCS, I think.

 

So my recommendation would be to set the render target in Pitool at 0.5.

Then the PD in DCS VR menu set at 1.1 or 1.2. A PD setting in DCS VR menu to 1.3 was too much too handle.

Then set the supersampling override in SteamVR between 140 - 200% depending on to your system/GPU. Then only adjust the performance within SteamVR SS setting.

 

 

System: 2080Ti Pimax 5k+ @Large field of view, 72Hz, smart smoothing activated. Contrast +2, Brightness -1. DCS stereo.lua edited, Nvidia 430.36 settings all to default/application controlled.

Just to clarify,Are using the new beta PiTool? Thx

[Gladman]

Voight I gave your settings a try. Got to 1.6 on the DCS PD before I dialed it back. Settled on 1.4. The aliasing is there but the frames, no doubt, are much higher. Thanks for the info.

[lefuneste01]

You should try this :

 

 

• use the last pitool beta version.
  
• set pitool render target to 2,0
  
• set steamvr SS to the lowest value (20% for example) to have the same ouput resolution than with your current settings
  

And you may notice that, for more or less the same fps, image will be far better than using low quality pitool processing and then SS the result.

[funkyfranky]

Looks like we have two rather different approaches here :)

[A Hamburgler]

You should try this :

 

 

• use the last pitool beta version.
  
• set pitool render target to 2,0
  
• set steamvr SS to the lowest value (20% for example) to have the same ouput resolution than with your current settings
  

And you may notice that, for more or less the same fps, image will be far better than using low quality pitool processing and then SS the result.

 

Well I’ll be testing this later.

[Rosebud47]

Have got the newest Pitool Version 121 Beta FW 211 installed.

Also tried the previous Pitool version 112 and the according firmware, but there was no difference for me between these two Pitool versions.

 

Yeah, I think it´s right to get nearly the same performance if running Pitool with a rendertarget of 2.0 and SteamVR SS set to 20%. But I also think that downsampling is always accompanied by a loss of image information/quality, respectively subpixel information.

 

The Pitool setting rendertarget 1.0 is already upsampled, as the resolution shows in SteamVR with 100%.

My approach was to come as much close to the Pimax´ native resolution without downsampling and loosing image quality.

Pitool setting 0.5 is a bit below native resolution of 2560 x 1440 but closer to it than Pitool setting 0.75.

Maybe it´s more advisable to set 0.75 in Pitool to not undergoing the native resolution and to get most picture information/quality out of the basic rendertarget setting before supersampling it with PD in DCS VR menu and SteamVR SS override.

 

It´s difficult to discuss image quality, as image quality always lies in the eyes of the observer, when it´s about nuances. Also other factors on different configurations might influence the image quality and performance, so finally everyone has to find settings by his own, which satisfies most.

 

But finding and sharing ways to improve performance and image quality is something worth to share with everybody in my opinion.

[Phantom88]

FFR Explained

 

[lefuneste01]

My approach was to come as much close to the Pimax´ native resolution without downsampling and loosing image quality.

Pitool setting 0.5 is a bit below native resolution of 2560 x 1440 but closer to it than Pitool setting 0.75.

 

It´s difficult to discuss image quality, as image quality always lies in the eyes of the observer, when it´s about nuances. Also other factors on different configurations might influence the image quality and performance, so finally everyone has to find settings by his own, which satisfies most.

the problem is that Pitool is a black box in charge of transforming the image provided by the game, to allow it to be seen correctly through the lens of the Helmet. SteamVR is doing nothing here (and I did not use it anymore with the last Pitool version). So basically, SS factor is just defining the size used by the game to render the images. Pitool quality setting is also contributing in the size to render the image, but it may also include some features that enhance the image quality...

And yes, image quality is relative to user. Did you try the Pittol 2.0 settings ?

 

 

Another things: I made a mod that allows Pimax users to avoid to use PP in DCS for the build-in zoom, but also use a new 5x and 10x zoom. For the moment it looks likes nobody is willing to test :-( ...

Could you have a look ? It is here : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239888