Fred00 Posted November 11, 2017 Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) How close to the real deal is this module? Has it been tested and approved by real Viggen pilots? One thing I have noticed is that it feels almost like the M-2000C when banking, it's very exact. Is this like the real airplane? One would think that such an old construction would feel a bit more "loose" in the air (but I have no idea if that's the case). The Viggen sure feels very different compared to for example the F-5E. Btw, I'm starting to look into this module again. Really looking forward to the manual update and the campaign. Still hoping for a map of Sweden (I know, years away). Edited November 11, 2017 by Fred00
Skyracer Posted November 11, 2017 Posted November 11, 2017 Sorry for swedish.. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154246016796689&set=gm.1021215971346896&type=3&theater http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/aktuellt/2012/06/erfaren-stridspilot-gar-i-pension/ MY SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel pentium 3 @ 800 MHz, 256 Mb RAM, Geforce 2 64Mb, Dell screen 1024x768 + Microsoft sidewhiner joystick + TrackIR 2 + TrackClitPro SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 98, Noice Attack & VIASAT PRO, SnackView
Rudel_chw Posted November 11, 2017 Posted November 11, 2017 ... One thing I have noticed is that it feels almost like the M-2000C when banking, it's very exact. maybe you have the Autopilot stabilizer (SPAK) activated ... turn it off and check again :) For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
BlackLion213 Posted November 11, 2017 Posted November 11, 2017 maybe you have the Autopilot stabilizer (SPAK) activated ... turn it off and check again :) Yes exactly, good advise. :) One of the many Viggen features far ahead of its time is SPAK - basically a sophisticated stability augmentation and flight control system that uses the Viggen's autopilot. The system seems to have a lot of control authority (including dedicated control surfaces and the ability to add large inputs). It really cleans up the handling, but you can see the fidelity built into the FM by disabling it (green light/button on the left upper panel - just below the glare shield). The handling is quite different with a lot more roll inertia, drift, adverse roll, etc. -Nick
Fred00 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Posted November 11, 2017 Wow, yes that was quite a difference. I love the attention put into the flight model when you can get such a different aircraft by disabling SPAK. One more question: The aircraft seems to nose up very abruptly on take-off. Is this also how it does in real life? I need to be pretty gentle on the stick to keep good control...
Rudel_chw Posted November 11, 2017 Posted November 11, 2017 One more question: The aircraft seems to nose up very abruptly on take-off. Is this also how it does in real life? I havent flew the real aircraft, so I can't really answer the question, but what I do is ignore the 3º nose up trim that the manual suggest for take off, I prefer to take off with neutral trim, I find it easier this way. For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Fred00 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Posted November 11, 2017 I havent flew the real aircraft, so I can't really answer the question, but what I do is ignore the 3º nose up trim that the manual suggest for take off, I prefer to take off with neutral trim, I find it easier this way. Thanks for the tip, that seems to make it better. One more question. The trim seems to be very inconsistent. Sometimes the stick barely moves and the plane is trimming very slowly. Other times it trims very fast. Is this a bug?
Cobra847 Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 Thanks for the tip, that seems to make it better. One more question. The trim seems to be very inconsistent. Sometimes the stick barely moves and the plane is trimming very slowly. Other times it trims very fast. Is this a bug? The longer you hold down the trim command the quicker it will go. This resets after a certain time. Its to help with making minute adjustments, but also allows you to make larger adjustments if you hold it longer. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
QuiGon Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 How close to the real deal is this module? Has it been tested and approved by real Viggen pilots? One thing I have noticed is that it feels almost like the M-2000C when banking, it's very exact. Is this like the real airplane? One would think that such an old construction would feel a bit more "loose" in the air (but I have no idea if that's the case). The Viggen sure feels very different compared to for example the F-5E. Btw, I'm starting to look into this module again. Really looking forward to the manual update and the campaign. Still hoping for a map of Sweden (I know, years away). Viggen and Mirage are both delta wing designs while the F-5E is not, so it makes sense to me. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Fred00 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Posted November 14, 2017 The longer you hold down the trim command the quicker it will go. This resets after a certain time. Its to help with making minute adjustments, but also allows you to make larger adjustments if you hold it longer. Good to know, thanks!
Fred00 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Posted November 14, 2017 Viggen and Mirage are both delta wing designs while the F-5E is not, so it makes sense to me. Yes, that, and also that both have highly effective flight control systems.
QuiGon Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 Yes, that, and also that both have highly effective flight control systems. What highly effective flight control system is there on the Viggen? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
firmek Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 I havent flew the real aircraft, so I can't really answer the question, but what I do is ignore the 3º nose up trim that the manual suggest for take off, I prefer to take off with neutral trim, I find it easier this way. To be more specific, manual says to use the -3º only with non-empty fuel tank. Otherwise neutral pitch trim. Trim is one of those things that probably can be left to the pilot discretion. However, following the manual recomendation works well for me. F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all
Fred00 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Posted November 14, 2017 uWhat highly effective flight control system is there on the Viggen? The effect of disabling SPAK was rather big in my mind. It changed the the feel completely. The plane is much, much easier to control with SPAK.
QuiGon Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 u The effect of disabling SPAK was rather big in my mind. It changed the the feel completely. The plane is much, much easier to control with SPAK. Alright, but still, it's just a dampening system, which is not what I call a "highly effective flight control system" especially if compared with the Mirages fly by wire system which is way more sophisticated. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
RagnarDa Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Fidelity of flight model? It depends on what you consider advanced or complex. Compared to the other systems in the Viggen, and foremost the CK37, I guess the SPAK/SA06-system is simple. It doesn’t have some of the bells and whistles of more modern systems either. It’s not a Fly-By-Wire system in the sense that there is a mechanical linkage to the control surfaces to the pilots stick. But it also has a force sensing system in the stick which translates pilot input to linear G-per-force and constant roll rate which I guess would make it an “almost”-FBW... I guess the designers wasn’t ready to fully trust electronics at that point in time (at least not Swedish designers, the F-16 was on the drawing board at that time too). Edited November 15, 2017 by RagnarDa DCS AJS37 HACKERMAN There will always be bugs. If everything is a priority nothing is.
Kelevra9987 Posted November 15, 2017 Posted November 15, 2017 Alright, but still, it's just a dampening system, which is not what I call a "highly effective flight control system" especially if compared with the Mirages fly by wire system which is way more sophisticated. Of course it's more sophisticated. The 2000C had it's first flight in 1982 wich is 15 Years after the Viggen. Other than an delta wing design, those two don't share anything really. And for an A/C that old, the SPAK is an "highly effective flight control system". Modules: Well... all of 'em ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Motherboard: ASUS Maximus VIII Hero | CPU: i7-6700K @ 4.6GHz | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengance LPX DDR4 | GPU: GTX TITAN X (Maxwell) | SSD1: 256GB NVMe SSD System | SSD2: 250GB Games | HDD 4TB WD Red
Fred00 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Posted November 15, 2017 Well, my wording could maybe have been better, but still, SPAK makes alot of difference. :)
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