CCIP bomb release on an incline (up or down) how to factor that in?

[fargo007]

Hi,

 

Noticing that dropping mk82 snake on targets with even a modest incline doesn't line up.

 

Is there a formula or technique for modifying the release point in this situation?

 

/Fargo

[bmbpdk]

Do you mean the bombs fall long or short?

 

Perhaps the firing solution for CCIP is calculated for the altitude the platform is at and cant see the target is elevated?

 

Is the target marked as SPI?

 

Either try CCRP or try the Toss bombing technique (if its in the game mechanics)

[fargo007]

Exactly - they fall either long or short, without explanation.

 

Wondering if there's a technique for handling this.

[QuiGon]

What aircraft?

[fargo007]

Harrier. Deadly on flat ground, but any incline and they go shitwise.

[schurem]

Its because of how the harriers aiming computer works. it does not measure distance, but only the current altitude above ground using a radar altimeter. you will have to learn how to compensate for terrain by hand, aiming long or short as the sutation might require. thats my two cents.

[Flagrum]

Its because of how the harriers aiming computer works. it does not measure distance, but only the current altitude above ground using a radar altimeter. you will have to learn how to compensate for terrain by hand, aiming long or short as the sutation might require. thats my two cents.

As far as I understand the Angle Rate Bombing System, it should not have to rely on measuring the aircraft's altitude - or rather the difference between it's altitude and the target elevation. The changing slant angle should be enough, afaik.

[schurem]

Right. but the important caveat here is that altitude and angle rate are precisely measured, slant range is not. The system therefore connot but assume a flat surface, unless some very fancy digital terrain database is used along with very accurate INS or GPS.

[Ironhand]

Would this thread be of any help in this discussion?

 

AN/ASB-19 Angle Rate Bombing System (ARBS)

[fargo007]

Thanks Ironhand!

[VZ_342]

I would suggest if the target is on an uphill* slope, that the time of fall (“slant range”) would be less, so the bombs would fall short.

 

If the target is on a downhill* slope, the TOF would be greater, so the bombs will go long.

 

TL;DR—

 

Uphill, aim just beyond target

 

Downhill, aim just before target

 

 

 

*from the perspective of the pilot

[mvsgas]

Hi,

 

Noticing that dropping mk82 snake on targets with even a modest incline doesn't line up.

 

Is there a formula or technique for modifying the release point in this situation?

 

/Fargo

 

Find the RL A1-Av8BB-TAC-000, it shows many things we would need to do to properly calculate this and the fact that many of those things are not yet implemented. Some things to note:

-On Day and Night Attack aircraft the ARBS is

the only height-above-target measurement

device available that is actually tied to the target. In

light of the accuracy of the ARBS system,

the limitations of the radar altimeter, and the

inaccuracies involved in ADC measurement,

every weapons delivery should attempt use of a

DMT designation. In some scenarios lack of valid

DMT designation should become one of your

tactical abort criteria.

 

- The radar altimeter

does not provide range to the nearest piece of

terrain. It provides range to the strongest signal

in the field of view. Whenever the radar altimeter

is used for system input, care must be taken

to ensure that the terrain in the field of view is

relatively flat or radar altimeter altitude will not

equate to height above target. This applies for

weapons deliveries and overfly updates. The terrain

between current aircraft position and the

target must be relatively flat.

 

- In AUTO deliveries the radar altimeter

takes a single ″ping″ to determine aircraft height

and then barometric altitude is used for the

remainder of the release run. This initial ″ping″

might not represent the most accurate altitude

source at the time and could set the height loop

in error.

 

-If uphill bombing is required, LOFT is the preferred mode.

Pages of information, talking about using the GPS, barometric altitude, etc.

To sum it up, we need more systems implemented before we can tell if it's working like it should.

Edited December 27, 2017 by mvsgas

[fargo007]

Thank you mvsgas. Rep power to you for the detailed explanation.

[Fri13]

ARBS system as mentioned does the trick

 

It doesn't need a distance measurement as the DMT angle of change, aircraft speed etc are the information that the ARBS system uses to calculate the trajectory for chosen weapon.

 

And ARBS requires you to come on target in angle and not head on as if the DMT stays in center while you aproach the target, ARBS system can't calculate the angle of change.

 

[Flagrum]

And ARBS requires you to come on target in angle and not head on as if the DMT stays in center while you aproach the target, ARBS system can't calculate the angle of change.

 

Either the DMT moves as you are closing in at the target if you fly level, or you altitude is decreasing in an, well, increasing rate (plus your speed might increase as well). Either should be enough to calculate the firing solution, I would think?

[Ironhand]

Either the DMT moves as you are closing in at the target if you fly level, or you altitude is decreasing in an, well, increasing rate (plus your speed might increase as well). Either should be enough to calculate the firing solution, I would think?

I think what he's saying is that you can't have your nose pointing directly at the target. Anything short of that should work, since there would then be a continuous change in angle as the aircraft moves toward the target for the system to measure.