Is Our Harrier Navy or Marine?

[Horns]

I noticed that the front cover of the pocket guide states that our Harrier is the Navy model, is that accurate? I had thought that this sim was a Marine a/c. All of the liveries look like they're for Marine squadrons, but I know those aren't necessarily accurate or exhaustive. If someone could please confirm whether this is a Navy or Marine airframe I'd be grateful.

 

Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere, I did search but found nothing relevant.

[QuiGon]

I noticed that the front cover of the pocket guide states that our Harrier is the Navy model, is that accurate? I had thought that this sim was a Marine a/c. All of the liveries look like they're for Marine squadrons, but I know those aren't necessarily accurate or exhaustive. If someone could please confirm whether this is a Navy or Marine airframe I'd be grateful.

 

Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere, I did search but found nothing relevant.

 

There is no navy Harrier, at least not in the US Navy. So yes, it is a US Marine Harrier.

[Horns]

There is no navy Harrier, at least not in the US Navy. So yes, it is a US Marine Harrier.

 

Thanks QuiGon, appreciated as always :)

[Brewnix]

A little fun fact. In Marine Aviation everything goes thru the Navy. Tools, parts changes in the aircraft manuals. If I remember it was called Navair depot that was stamped on all the tools. If they didn't have there stamp on it you could not use it. Hose clamp under $10 bucks at the hardware store after the Navair depot put there name on it $75bucks. They have to approve everything before we get to use it. That's why it says the Navy everywhere.

[drPhibes]

Which isn't so surprising, since the USMC has been a component of the US Navy for nearly 184 years.

[grunf]

Which isn't so surprising, since the USMC has been a component of the US Navy for nearly 184 years.

Actually USMC is not part of USN, they are both separate branches under the Department of the Navy.

[Horns]

A little fun fact. In Marine Aviation everything goes thru the Navy. Tools, parts changes in the aircraft manuals. If I remember it was called Navair depot that was stamped on all the tools. If they didn't have there stamp on it you could not use it. Hose clamp under $10 bucks at the hardware store after the Navair depot put there name on it $75bucks. They have to approve everything before we get to use it. That's why it says the Navy everywhere.

 

Ah ok, that is informative, thanks. So all Marines Airframes would likely be designated as Navy builds? Do all Marines assets go through this approval process, or is it specific to certain types of items?

[Brewnix]

Ah ok, that is informative, thanks. So all Marines Airframes would likely be designated as Navy builds? Do all Marines assets go through this approval process, or is it specific to certain types of items?

 

That I don't know how much and what went thru the Navair dept. I was just recalling why we had NAVAIR stamped on on our tools and some of the publications.

[Horns]

That I don't know how much and what went thru the Navair dept. I was just recalling why we had NAVAIR stamped on on our tools and some of the publications.

 

Ah fair enough. It's great hearing these details, for a civvie like me it's great to get this background :)

[Vampyre]

Every Marine is a rifleman. That saying is true. Even though some of them fly jets/helicopters, drive tanks/trucks and operate artillery pieces they are all riflemen first. They do not possess their own acquisitions/support infrastructure and instead use the Navy for that which is why NAVAIR is seen on everything aviation related. Their paychecks come from the Department of the Navy. They do not even have their own medical personnel instead relying on the Navy for their Hospital Corpsman. One of the interservice jabs that routinely gets used is that MARINE is an acronym- My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.

[Horns]

Every Marine is a rifleman. That saying is true. Even though some of them fly jets/helicopters, drive tanks/trucks and operate artillery pieces they are all riflemen first. They do not possess their own acquisitions/support infrastructure and instead use the Navy for that which is why NAVAIR is seen on everything aviation related. Their paychecks come from the Department of the Navy. They do not even have their own medical personnel instead relying on the Navy for their Hospital Corpsman. One of the interservice jabs that routinely gets used is that MARINE is an acronym- My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.

 

Thanks for explaining that; so in some way every Marine is in for the fight, that makes sense. So the joke about Marines is that they are "owned" by the Navy, so I'll guess the Marines call the Navy their secretaries or something like that?

[QuiGon]

Every Marine is a rifleman. That saying is true. Even though some of them fly jets/helicopters, drive tanks/trucks and operate artillery pieces they are all riflemen first. They do not possess their own acquisitions/support infrastructure and instead use the Navy for that which is why NAVAIR is seen on everything aviation related. Their paychecks come from the Department of the Navy. They do not even have their own medical personnel instead relying on the Navy for their Hospital Corpsman. One of the interservice jabs that routinely gets used is that MARINE is an acronym- My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment.

 

And that is also the reason, why Hospital Corpsmen, the navy medics, are the most combat experienced and decorated soldiers in the US Navy, as they have to treat Marines in the field as well and are embedded in USMC units in the field down to the squad level afaik.

[NeilWillis]

Yep, the Marines and the Navy are very closely linked. Originally, there was a section of troops aboard all naval vessels, the total number was in keeping with the size of the ship. - I'm talking about back in the days of press gangs and sail in the British navy when the establishment of the Navy was equal to the next largest 3 potential adversaries fleets, and the US Navy had around 3 or 4 frigates in total. The biggest adversarial navies were the Spanish, French, and Russians or Turks depending on the exact stage in that era.

 

With pressed crews, there was a risk of them turning on their officers so the Marines provided security aboard ship as well as the role the soldiers had in leading raiding parties ashore. Though they were soldiers, they were under Navy administration - there was no central defence command, but 2 entirely independent branches - Navy and Army, and the Marines were not part of the army establishment even though they wore army style uniforms and had army style equipment and weapons. They were always considered a separate entity, possibly because of the security role they also filled, with separate messing, and an independent command structure on shore, but detached and under the command of the ship's captain at sea.

 

It set the trend for all navies around the world, which is why the US Navy also has a Marine branch, and probably why they are also so closely attached even today.

Edited January 17, 2018 by NeilWillis

[Gunny Highway]

Lots of misinformation in here regarding U.S. Marines...

[NeilWillis]

Lots of misinformation in here regarding U.S. Marines...

 

Care to elaborate Gunny?

[Gunny Highway]

Care to elaborate Gunny?

 

 

There is plenty on here, Marines don't get their paycheck from the Navy, they get it from DFAS, Marines have their own supply and logistic elements (CLB's, MALS, LOGCOM, etc.), the history you can read for yourself. There is no Marine medical fields, that is correct that the Navy handles all of that (corpsmen, doctors, dentist, etc.)

 

Maybe some of this is applicable to Royal Marines or some other country, but not the USMC.

[DoomEngine]

We are a department of the Navy- dating back to being soldiers on ships of sail. Semper Fi.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, to the OP- it's a USMC harrier.

Edited January 18, 2018 by DoomEngine
original post

[-Rudel-]

The men's department :D

[jojo]

The men's department :D

 

 

:D

[NeilWillis]

There is plenty on here, Marines don't get their paycheck from the Navy, they get it from DFAS, Marines have their own supply and logistic elements (CLB's, MALS, LOGCOM, etc.), the history you can read for yourself. There is no Marine medical fields, that is correct that the Navy handles all of that (corpsmen, doctors, dentist, etc.)

 

Maybe some of this is applicable to Royal Marines or some other country, but not the USMC.

 

The part of the supply and logistics being discussed was purely aviation. I think you'll find that aspect is supplied by the Navy. I was also just pointing out why the marines and navy are closely associated historically. All accurate as far as I am concerned.

[Horns]

It's not an approval process per se, it's an acquisition/procurement process. Letting NAVAIR handle this end of the logistical chain keeps costs down for us. This is a lesson ignored during the development of the Osprey program, and it was bad.

 

Like, really, bad. Like when I was at WTI that yeah when one crashed at Marana killing 19 guys because of bad wiring design. Shoulda let the services with the money drive that bus, but we wanted to be in the drivers seat on development to make sure we got the airframe we wanted. Osprey development nearly broke Marine Air permanently. Lesson learned: never again.

 

But back to the beginning of this, all the aviation documentation in the Marine Corps is derived from NAVAIR, as it all starts in the five sided puzzle palace in D.C. and goes to Pax River to be flight tested and validated in conjunction with the brain trust in St. Louis (McAir/Boeing's house of cards). Then it gets to the model manager and the smarty-smarts therein before being pushed out to the operation squadrons. MAWTS-1 gets a cut, too, I expect.

 

Ouch, rough to learn a lesson like that. When any organization performs a function for the first time teething problems would be expected, but nothing as grave as that.

 

We are a department of the Navy- dating back to being soldiers on ships of sail. Semper Fi.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, to the OP- it's a USMC harrier.

 

Cheers. It's great that USN and USMC each have an appreciation for the other's contributions that allows each branch to specialize.

 

The men's department :D

 

 

:D

 

So much for appreciation :P

[Gunny Highway]

The part of the supply and logistics being discussed was purely aviation. I think you'll find that aspect is supplied by the Navy. I was also just pointing out why the marines and navy are closely associated historically. All accurate as far as I am concerned.

 

I never called you out specifically, so don’t feel like my initial post was directed to you. The supply post I was referencing stated the Marines do not possess their own acquisition or logistic support, which they most certainly do, even on the air side. I was not an aviation supply Marine, but the job does exist, maybe someone with more experience could clear things up. They have entire support squadrons dedicated to aviation supply and logistics (MALS).

 

Edit:

 

Just to clarify, I’m just stating there is some misinformation/misconceptions in this thread. Obviously the USMC operates under and with the Navy, that’s the reason why there is no Secretary of the Marine Corps.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Gunny Highway

[Los]

"Every Marine is a rifleman." Actual Rifleman smile at this bit of semi-propaganda. There's a lot of separation between a clerk who went through Basic and an 0311 that spend months at SOI and then works in a line unit. Sort of like saying every marine pilot is a fighter pilot.