Yet another warthog slew upgrade

[Shaman]

I am loving this mod, it is actually a must have upgrade. Thank you for this.

[Mikla]

I installed the new slew sensor but noticed a firmware update on the site allowing faster polling.  It says to use the TM Firmware Updater in a certain location.  I do not have that updater or anything resembling that in any file path.  Is there a way to download the updater from someplace?   I tried to search for it and came up empty.  All I have is the TARGET app from TM.

 

Update: I sorted it out.  Had to install the Drivers for the throttle from the TM support site and that installed the Firmware Updater.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Mikla

[SrSosio]

12 minutes ago, Mikla said:

I installed the new slew sensor but noticed a firmware update on the site allowing faster polling.  It says to use the TM Firmware Updater in a certain location.  I do not have that updater or anything resembling that in any file path.  Is there a way to download the updater from someplace?   I tried to search for it and came up empty.  All I have is the TARGET app from TM.

I believe that's the software you need to use to update the firmware. 

[Sn8ke]

I I damaged my last throttle trying to add a lever extension mod. Ordered a new one. The new one has the updated TDC. Can I use the Delta fast slew firmware in the newest TM TDC?

[Deltaalphalima1]

10 hours ago, Sn8ke said:

I I damaged my last throttle trying to add a lever extension mod. Ordered a new one. The new one has the updated TDC. Can I use the Delta fast slew firmware in the newest TM TDC?

Yes the updated firmware should work fine, please let me know if you see an improvement as I haven’t tested it myself yet.

My slew upgrade and the new TM slew should be interchangeable too, in case you wanted to swap them at any point.

 

[Sn8ke]

6 hours ago, Deltaalphalima1 said:

Yes the updated firmware should work fine, please let me know if you see an improvement as I haven’t tested it myself yet.

 

My slew upgrade and the new TM slew should be interchangeable too, in case you wanted to swap them at any point.

 

I updated your firmware to the upgraded TM TDC (2022+ throttles), it has a faster and smoother slew rate. Thanks!

[IR.Clutch]

Where can I download the firmware? Forgot where to download it, couldn't find. Thanks

[MAXsenna]

I am overall very happy with the upgrade, but it seems it has a build in deadzone or acceleration during the first 10 percent of travel which makes precision impossible in some modules. Especially the Shkval in the Ka-50 and Su-25T.
Testing in DIview, and it sort of jumps when I barely touch it in both axis. It's smooth as butter and highly enjoyable in the rest of the range!
Anyway to get rid of this without setting a deadzone in DCS, which I truly deeply hate doing?

Cheers!

 

 

 

[Deltaalphalima1]

22 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I am overall very happy with the upgrade, but it seems it has a build in deadzone or acceleration during the first 10 percent of travel which makes precision impossible in some modules. Especially the Shkval in the Ka-50 and Su-25T.
Testing in DIview, and it sort of jumps when I barely touch it in both axis. It's smooth as butter and highly enjoyable in the rest of the range!
Anyway to get rid of this without setting a deadzone in DCS, which I truly deeply hate doing?

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

There is deadzone set in a few places, I will try to explain and some of them can be reduced.

Firstly there is some minimal deadzone built into the firmware in the slew upgrade, that is necessary as the ministick sensor doesn’t return exactly to centre every time, so you get drift without it.

There is also some deadzone inside the warthog throttle firmware that is set when running the Thrustmaster calibration tool. If you find the 'A10_calibration.txt' file inside the folder with the calibration tool, you can change settings:

Standard_DZ_SX = 0x05;   // 20
Standard_DZ_SY = 0x05;   // 21

It has already been changes to 5 as standard, but you can do down to 01, so change to:

Standard_DZ_SX = 0x01;   // 20
Standard_DZ_SY = 0x01;   // 21

Then rerun the calibration tool as normal.

Lastly make sure you have cleared any windows calibration, as that can add some.

If it is still too jumpy around the centre, adding curves in DCS is probably the best next step. That way you can reduced the sensitivity around the centre and hopefully make it smoother.

Let me know how you get on!

22 hours ago, IR.Clutch said:

Where can I download the firmware? Forgot where to download it, couldn't find. Thanks

Our modified fast slew firmware V100 can be downloaded from my website, https://deltasimelectronics.com/pages/install-instructions

The standard firmware comes with the update tool, which is included in the standard warthog driver package, available from the Thrustmaster website download section.

[MAXsenna]

@Deltaalphalima1

Thank you for your answer. This is exactly what I was looking for! 

Of course it needs a tiny deadzone, that makes sense. I've never done any Windows calibration with it, but if one was to "cleans it". Would "reset to default" be correct procedure? And then, the TM Calibration Tool will take me through the steps of all the other axis? It's such a long time sinse I installed your mod, and I don't think I did any calibration after the latest firmware upgrade. Maybe that's the issue.

I did find a little workaround for the Shkval. I did set a deadzone of 8, and whoa! That did sort it quite well. I love this upgrade. I will try your steps and report back! 

While I'm at it. Does one calibrate the Warthog stick in the same way? And what numbers to use? I have 2x20cm extensions, and I have physically reduced the deflection of the stick. But then had to resort to the Windows tool. 

Cheers! 

[Deltaalphalima1]

23 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

@Deltaalphalima1

Thank you for your answer. This is exactly what I was looking for! 

Of course it needs a tiny deadzone, that makes sense. I've never done any Windows calibration with it, but if one was to "cleans it". Would "reset to default" be correct procedure? And then, the TM Calibration Tool will take me through the steps of all the other axis? It's such a long time sinse I installed your mod, and I don't think I did any calibration after the latest firmware upgrade. Maybe that's the issue.

I did find a little workaround for the Shkval. I did set a deadzone of 8, and whoa! That did sort it quite well. I love this upgrade. I will try your steps and report back! 

While I'm at it. Does one calibrate the Warthog stick in the same way? And what numbers to use? I have 2x20cm extensions, and I have physically reduced the deflection of the stick. But then had to resort to the Windows tool. 

Cheers! 

Yes the 'reset to deault' will clear any windows calibration, I think apply will be greyed out if it is already cleared.

The calibration tool does all the axes on the throttle, it isn’t required to recalibrate after installing the new firmware, but it is probably a good to do it every now and again anyway.

There are two calibration programs in the folder you can download from my website, 'HW_Stick Calibration' and 'Throttle Warthog Calibration' , so you calibrate them separately.

If your happy with how your stick is working then no need to recalibrate it too, especially if you have custom limits that might get complicated.

 

[Frost_rus]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:51 AM, Deltaalphalima1 said:

Sorry to hear that, the most common thing that causes a problem like this is if the 5-pin cable and connector to the new slew sensor have worked loose, and are no longer making a good connection.

I would recommend opening the throttle grip and disconnecting the cable from the new sensor, and then swapping the ends of the cable around, so the end that was connect to the throttle is now connected to the sensor and vice versa, that will make sure all the connections have been re-seated.

You might need to run the calibration tool again after you have done this, before the sensor will start working again.

If that doesn’t fix it if you can send me an email or message I can walk you through some more steps.

Hi @Deltaalphalima1

I just got my slew upgrade (order #9603), installed it, and have the same issue.

Click works fine, but X/Y axes do not work.

Tried both TM v23 and Deltasim v100 firmware. Updated firmware with both old and new mini sticks installed

Cleared windows calibration and used TM calibration tool (v1.07).

Tried to swap 5pin cable ends - same result. 

Slew axes work when I connect original sensor and recalibrate.

Cable continuity looks good (checked with ohm meter), but maybe I should still try another cable to be 100% sure?

What else can I do to troubleshoot?

(I'm using Win 11 22H2 if it matters)

 

Thank you,

Andrey

[Deltaalphalima1]

3 hours ago, Frost_rus said:

Hi @Deltaalphalima1

I just got my slew upgrade (order #9603), installed it, and have the same issue.

Click works fine, but X/Y axes do not work.

Tried both TM v23 and Deltasim v100 firmware. Updated firmware with both old and new mini sticks installed

Cleared windows calibration and used TM calibration tool (v1.07).

Tried to swap 5pin cable ends - same result. 

Slew axes work when I connect original sensor and recalibrate.

Cable continuity looks good (checked with ohm meter), but maybe I should still try another cable to be 100% sure?

What else can I do to troubleshoot?

(I'm using Win 11 22H2 if it matters)

 

Thank you,

Andrey

That's a strange one, sounds like you have tried everything I would normally recommend.

Probably best to go back to the start, make sure you are on v23 firmware, connect the old sensor and recalibrate, and check both axes are moving.

Unplug the throttle, reconnect the new sensor, then plug the throttle back in and without recalibration or anything, check if you can see any movement on either axis.

If the old sensor is working in that configuration, but the new sensor still shows no movement, then it is probably something hardware related with the new sensor.

If you can send me a pm or email I can give some move specific advice

[Frost_rus]

6 hours ago, Deltaalphalima1 said:

That's a strange one, sounds like you have tried everything I would normally recommend.

Probably best to go back to the start, make sure you are on v23 firmware, connect the old sensor and recalibrate, and check both axes are moving.

Unplug the throttle, reconnect the new sensor, then plug the throttle back in and without recalibration or anything, check if you can see any movement on either axis.

If the old sensor is working in that configuration, but the new sensor still shows no movement, then it is probably something hardware related with the new sensor.

If you can send me a pm or email I can give some move specific advice

Ok, will try tomorrow and then let you know. Thanks 

[Frost_rus]

21 hours ago, Deltaalphalima1 said:

That's a strange one, sounds like you have tried everything I would normally recommend.

Probably best to go back to the start, make sure you are on v23 firmware, connect the old sensor and recalibrate, and check both axes are moving.

Unplug the throttle, reconnect the new sensor, then plug the throttle back in and without recalibration or anything, check if you can see any movement on either axis.

If the old sensor is working in that configuration, but the new sensor still shows no movement, then it is probably something hardware related with the new sensor.

If you can send me a pm or email I can give some move specific advice

wow, today I did what you suggested, and it works! Thank you again!

I have no idea what I did wrong last time (as far as I remember, already tried these steps yesterday). 

The only thing now is when I slowly move mini stick, the cursor starts to "shake" and "jump" to 0 and back to real values in some positions (both in v23 and v100, and after recalibration). I still suspect it may be one of 5 pin cable wires a bit loose. So I'll try another one. These ones should fit, right? https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/adafruit-industries-llc/4925/14291408 or 0151340500 Molex | Cable Assemblies | DigiKey

Edited October 4, 2023 by Frost_rus

[Deltaalphalima1]

3 hours ago, Frost_rus said:

wow, today I did what you suggested, and it works! Thank you again!

I have no idea what I did wrong last time (as far as I remember, already tried these steps yesterday). 

The only thing now is when I slowly move mini stick, the cursor starts to "shake" and "jump" to 0 and back to real values in some positions (both in v23 and v100, and after recalibration). I still suspect it may be one of 5 pin cable wires a bit loose. So I'll try another one. These ones should fit, right? https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/adafruit-industries-llc/4925/14291408 or 0151340500 Molex | Cable Assemblies | DigiKey

 

That's great to hear! Sometimes these things can just get stuck in a loop, turning everything off and on again and going back the start can get it working again

If it is working at all it's probably not the cable. It is a digital communication for the axes so if there are any bad connections it will almost always just stop working entirely on both axes.

Have you cleared the windows cal and run the tool from my website? Where are you testing to see the jumping you describe?

If you want to try a new cable the Molex PicoBlade is the correct genuine part, just make sure you get one long enough, that link is only 50mm.

[Frost_rus]

On 10/4/2023 at 1:52 AM, Deltaalphalima1 said:

That's great to hear! Sometimes these things can just get stuck in a loop, turning everything off and on again and going back the start can get it working again

If it is working at all it's probably not the cable. It is a digital communication for the axes so if there are any bad connections it will almost always just stop working entirely on both axes.

Have you cleared the windows cal and run the tool from my website? Where are you testing to see the jumping you describe?

If you want to try a new cable the Molex PicoBlade is the correct genuine part, just make sure you get one long enough, that link is only 50mm.

Correct, cleared windows calibration and run calibration tool from https://deltasimelectronics.com/pages/install-instructions

I have only tested it using standard windows device settings window. I'll check later if it affects real usage scenarios in DCS. +also ordered molex 10cm cable, just in case.

[Frost_rus]

Ok, I can confirm it was a damaged cable.

After a couple days it stopped working again. Disassembled the throttle, reconnected the cable, it started to work, still unstable.

Then a new 5pin cable arrived. The problem was that the cable I ordered had reversed pinout. So I had to cut all wires (except the middle one) and reconnect them as needed (1st to 5th, 2nd to 4th).

I'm not good at soldering, so initially it was also jumping. Now soldered again and it finally works as expected. I hope soldered wires won't break super soon  maybe I'll order one more cable, with correct pin out this time.

TLDR: if ministick response is unstable (does not work, or "jumping") it is most likely a cable. Even when it seems to be ok. Most likely, some wire was a bit damaged, and its resistance was higher or it was loosing continuity randomly

[MAXsenna]

@Frost_rus
Tip for the future. While I haven't seen pictures of the cable you ordered, most terminated cables can be easily rearranged. Just use a small pin/needle to carefully to bend up the connector and pull out the crimped cables. Then, just reinsert the cables in the preferred order. Now, this would be easier with four hands, but can be done with two. I've been doing this for ages to get a square connector through a smaller round hole.

(Just remember to take picture of the original order before you start).

Cheers!



Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Deltaalphalima1]

2 hours ago, Frost_rus said:

Ok, I can confirm it was a damaged cable.

After a couple days it stopped working again. Disassembled the throttle, reconnected the cable, it started to work, still unstable.

Then a new 5pin cable arrived. The problem was that the cable I ordered had reversed pinout. So I had to cut all wires (except the middle one) and reconnect them as needed (1st to 5th, 2nd to 4th).

I'm not good at soldering, so initially it was also jumping. Now soldered again and it finally works as expected. I hope soldered wires won't break super soon  maybe I'll order one more cable, with correct pin out this time.

TLDR: if ministick response is unstable (does not work, or "jumping") it is most likely a cable. Even when it seems to be ok. Most likely, some wire was a bit damaged, and its resistance was higher or it was loosing continuity randomly

I'm glad to hear you were able to get it working! Did you get the genuine Molex cable? That should have the correct pinout.

Let me now if you would like me to send a replacement cable, it might take a week or two to get to you but it's the least I can do if the original was faulty.

[jackd]

On 8/5/2023 at 3:22 PM, Assamita said:

I believe that's the software you need to use to update the firmware. 

I don't need that, as there is a tool installed on my PC called TMFirmwareUpdater.exe in ProgramFiles\Guilermot\tmfwupdater\

Just ran it, updated both warthog units OK.

[Frost_rus]

On 10/13/2023 at 2:16 AM, Deltaalphalima1 said:

I'm glad to hear you were able to get it working! Did you get the genuine Molex cable? That should have the correct pinout.

Let me now if you would like me to send a replacement cable, it might take a week or two to get to you but it's the least I can do if the original was faulty.

Hi again.

A couple more things to the knowledge base. Long story, see TLDR below.

I initially connected the sensor with the resoldered cable, and it seemed to work (checked in Windows device test tool). But I had no time to actually play.

Tried it in DCS after a couple weeks and found that it starts working properly but after a few minutes starts to "jump" again. Just a bit at first, then more and more, and after a few more minutes - completely stops working. Immediate device reconnect didn't help but letting throttle rest disconnected for a few minutes brought it to working state. And it kept working again for 2-5 minutes

I thought that maybe my soldered cable still had loose connection, so ordered one more 5pin cable (Molex with proper pinout this time).

Replacing the cable didn't change anything. I tried to use all USB ports, flashing original and patched firmware, recalibrating - same result. Original sensor had no issues, as well as other throttle axes and buttons.

Same results in MSFS. Then I tried to run hardware stress test (FurMark + CPU-Z) and figured out that the sensor stops working properly when the system is under heavy load. Actually, if only CPU or GPU alone is at 100% utilization - everything was fine, but issue starts under full load. As soon as I stop benchmarks (or DCS/MSFS) it gets back to a normal state after a few minutes.

For reference, the hardware is ZOTAC RTX 4090 / MSI MPG B650 Edge / Ryzen 7600X / Corsair RM1000x Shift. I suppose, the motherboard is relatively low-end and has issues under load. Or PSU issues (less likely).

Most likely something was wrong with USB voltage under load. I also found that sensor axes do not work completely (even in idle mode) when I connect the device using USB extender, while everything else worked fine (including original sensor). So maybe it requires more stable voltage than other parts of the throttle.

TLDR: at final I connected the throttle via externally powered docking station (Thinkpad, USB-C), run stress test and DCS and it seems to work. At least, no issues after 20 minutes (and before that it started to fail after 2-5 minutes). Will fly for a few hours this weekend to ensure it works stable with the dock. Hope that will help if anyone else have same issues

Update: I can confirm. Was flying DCS for a few hours - no issues anymore, while using the dock station

Edited November 22, 2023 by Frost_rus

[Priest]

This is an absolutely amazing modification I'm just blown away by how much of a difference it makes. Ordered it back in November finally got around to installing it and it was super easy, instructions are fantastic can tell they are a product of experience. Also really appreciated the extra screws because of course I dropped one of those tiny things into the base of the throttle during install and would have sucked to have to dig that out with the right throttle taken apart!

Can't believe I've been dealing with the TM ministick for 10+ years what a piece of crap that thing is. In just a couple sessions after installing the Deltasim stick and the fast slew custom firmware I'm doing things I never could have made work with the standard ministick. A-10C "II" is my main and this mod is a complete game changer for employment of Mavs, APKWS, anything TGP. It'll make you fly different because weapons employment is sooo much smoother. Can now slew across a huge range fast and have extremely accurate fine aiming control at the same time. That was just not possible with the standard ministick.

10/10!!!

 

[Serapus]

I just wanted to drop a note and say how fantastic this mod is.  Also, the responsive support from Damien at Delta Sim is very much appreciated.

I would be interested to know if someone has a USB hub that they know works as I have a custom chair and my PC is a fair distance and the cables are stretched (picture below for context and ego trip).  Thanks in advance.

nullMy best advice for using this mod is when you're setting things up, follow the instructions to the letter.  DO NOT use a USB hub while performing the setup.

[WurzelGummage]

Hi all,

 

I have the warthog with the analogue stick from the factory, today it stopped working suddenly, I've never had any issues with it before. 

 

I've tried a firmware update, recalibration and reset to default to no avail. Does anyone have any ideas if there is anything else I can try before I have to accept it's broken and order a replacement. 

 

Thanks