Vehicle mounted guns too accurate

[schurem]

Hi guys,

 

I just tried the A-10A instant action scenario. It's two A-10A's, a gaggle of T-72s and BTR-80s vs a company of T-90s and BMP-3s. And one shilka. You'd think the shilka is the most dangerous threat for the A-10, being a radar laid dedicated air defence asset. But its not. The BMP's are far more deadly with their 30mms. They annihilate the AI wingman and me every single time as soon as we enter firing range. No amount of jinking will do.

 

Is that proper? Should an IFV, on the move, be able to accurately gun down manouvering jets with their (relatively) slow firing 30mms? I don't think so.

 

Is there a way to edit the unit files to make them less accurate vs air targets? I'm ok with the shilka being able to throw fire accurate enough to blast my engines if I present it with an easy predictable target, but the BMP's and tank cupola guns should be fireworks that get lucky only once in a thousand hours.

[Flappie]

Hi, it is known that both BMP-3 and BMP-2 are surprisingly very good snipers in DCS (I think BMP-2 is the best of the two). I agree with you: this seems unreal, and should be fixed.

 

I don't use them anymore in my missions: I now use BMP-1 instead.

[Mr_sukebe]

Wait until a T55 bags you with it’s 105 main gun whilst you’re moving.

It’s a known issue that has been raised

[schurem]

Heh yeah that's happened to me too. Not in an A-10 tho, I was trying to shkval the bastard from a km or four away in a Ka-50. Mighty fine shot indeed! And that's just on "average" skill setting, imagine the mad skills they'd have at expert! Every man a Zaitsev!

[firmek]

I'll most probably not be able to find a specific post on this topic but I was rather sure the accuracy of anti-air fire of armored vehicles has been reduced.

Unless it's a placebo effect and I just got used to it and manage it it's nowhere a problem as it used to be. At least to the extent of applying some basic good practice like not overflying the targets.

[Eviscerador]

I already faced what you said.

 

I recommend you to take a look at a lot of good advice people gave me in this topic:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=206210

 

So yeah, BMP 2 and 3 are like entry level AAA if you fly low and make newbie mistakes, like any newbie does when is starting.

 

All I can tell you is that following the advice given in that thread, my kill ratio improved a lot against AAA, and I've never had a problem with BMPs or even BTRs anymore.

 

PS: Yeah, I also have been shot down in a Su25T by a T55 main gun...

[schurem]

Yeah not a problem at all with certain vehicles' accuracy just git gud mate! Perfectly realistic for a tank to blat a Su-25T with its maingun, especially a tank built in the fifties!

[Eviscerador]

Nobody said the problem is not there. It has been raised to the devs and I guess they are doing dev stuff.

 

What I told you is that you can avoid most of the threat of such vehicles with the advice given in the previous thread.

 

Or you can keep whining, whatever you desire.

[firmek]

...It has been raised to the devs and I guess they are doing dev stuff.

Snapshot from a live web cam of devs doing dev stuff while nerfing the AA fire :D

 

 

[msalama]

It helps if you increase the deviation_error_speed_sensor values found in Scripts\database\scripts\sensors.lua. Makes them less accurate against moving targets.

[Fri13]

Heh yeah that's happened to me too. Not in an A-10 tho, I was trying to shkval the bastard from a km or four away in a Ka-50. Mighty fine shot indeed! And that's just on "average" skill setting, imagine the mad skills they'd have at expert! Every man a Zaitsev!

 

If even a T-55 gunner would shoot at something on ground in daytime past 1km.....

[malibu43]

It helps if you increase the deviation_error_speed_sensor values found in Scripts\database\scripts\sensors.lua. Makes them less accurate against moving targets.

 

Wow! Thanks for this tip!

 

Do you have any suggestions for new values for the different WSNs?

[schurem]

Nobody said the problem is not there. It has been raised to the devs and I guess they are doing dev stuff.

 

What I told you is that you can avoid most of the threat of such vehicles with the advice given in the previous thread.

 

Or you can keep whining, whatever you desire.

 

You're right of course, and I had this coming :) what I was looking for, instead of advice on how not to fly too straight was

 

It helps if you increase the deviation_error_speed_sensor values found in Scripts\database\scripts\sensors.lua. Makes them less accurate against moving targets.

 

The error in the file is quite obvious: the deviation values for BMP-2 and -3 class vehicles are the same as for radar laid guns. Putting h4}{0r hat on.. Starting experimentation for improvement now...

 

OK here's what I found: The BMP-3 (and similar vehicles) have the same values for miss distances as the Tunguska and Shilka have. If they should be better than their predecessors, it should not be in orders of magnitude (not from 0.003 to 0.0007) but more like from 0.003 to 0.005. Still more accurate because newer, more modern vehicle, but still only gets hits if lucky against a dumb target.

 

Then I tried the mission. It. was. AWESOME! Tracers flying everywhere, flack thick as a blanket. Scary but not saw-off-your-wing as soon as they see you scary. I did get hit but only slightly. The sort of sporadic hits a CAS aircraft should be able to handle. Much fun. Far more like what I imagined flying a hog over a soviet company of targets to be like.

 

This file does not seem to distinguish between air and ground targets... or does it?

Edited April 25, 2018 by schurem
the code... the results

[malibu43]

You're right of course, and I had this coming :) what I was looking for, instead of advice on how not to fly too straight was

 

 

 

The error in the file is quite obvious: the deviation values for BMP-2 and -3 class vehicles are the same as for radar laid guns. Putting h4}{0r hat on.. Starting experimentation for improvement now...

 

OK here's what I found: The BMP-3 (and similar vehicles) have the same values for miss distances as the Tunguska and Shilka have. If they should be better than their predecessors, it should not be in orders of magnitude (not from 0.003 to 0.0007) but more like from 0.003 to 0.005. Still more accurate because newer, more modern vehicle, but still only gets hits if lucky against a dumb target.

 

Then I tried the mission. It. was. AWESOME! Tracers flying everywhere, flack thick as a blanket. Scary but not saw-off-your-wing as soon as they see you scary. I did get hit but only slightly. The sort of sporadic hits a CAS aircraft should be able to handle. Much fun. Far more like what I imagined flying a hog over a soviet company of targets to be like.

 

This file does not seem to distinguish between air and ground targets... or does it?

 

Actually, after looking at the files today, it looks like ED actually updated this file in the 2.5.1 patch and didn't include it in the notes.

 

When I first opened the file before patching, the deviation_error_speed_sensor values for the BMPs was 0.1. However, after patching to 2.5.1 those values are changed to 0.2 (as suggested by msalama). I confirmed this by going back to my release branch folder, where the values are still 0.1.

 

So, it's possible that the end result you saw (which is a very good thing), was from the change ED finally made in the patch. It would take more testing to know if it's from your change, or ED's.

[msalama]

Do you have any suggestions for new values for the different WSNs?

 

Multiplying the values by 1.5 and then tweaking from there is what I did myself.