Landing Gazelle

[FragBum]

SnowTiger is right the Gazelle (well all helis) needs only a small amount of cyclic to manoeuvre.

 

Check out the amount cyclic movement in this video, very small cyclic movement is all that is required

 

AP system and trim off.

 

I've said this before I think a lot of issues especially with the Gazelle gets back to the input device you use. :)

[molevitch]

Totally agree!

[ouPhrontis]

As with any aircraft, it seems to ring true in simulations; finger and thumb, no need for a death grip and rarely any need for large deflections.

[Quadg]

this is me with less than 3 weeks flying the gazelle. so still rough round the edges.

trying out the L.

 

I have some reasonable wind which you will notice I turn into for the landing.

makes things easier.

 

 

wind, VR and no springs in my warthog. also good pedals :)

 

sorry I don't have tackview. so cant watch your tracks to help.

[Cunning_Fox]

Well, I am literally using miniscule changes to fly the thing as I've said before.

 

 

I wonder what do I do to makes sure it doesn't get out of hand. If I don't compensate enough, the situation develops even further.

 

Also, about that Land/take-off practice - I've done it before, so I decided I'd try to hover in order to shoot those tanks. Hovering where I want to, not where she lets me.

 

*proceeds to put on Offspring SMASH album on and tries again*

 

Thank you for your input guys. I'm trying my best to watch your videos, but I don't want to get discouraged by how awesome people's flying is hah.

 

----------------------

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eihdNM03zfEqAkxWJDQX1jDN7_EPphZa/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mBEwhqySmR7z04A0wZd2RkEJSmU0AdYi/view?usp=sharing

 

Felt like a wild weasel, but what a ride!

 

Bring your vomit bag.

 

I know I've wasted those flares, but I wanted to look cool and that's what a pilot would do anyway if he was attacked, even if it wasn't a heatseeking missile, right?

 

They really should attach one Strela to those tanks, just in case, so that the loader can get out and shoot a Heli down (since they've removed the AA MG). The little threahead in me wouldn't shut up.

 

Did you see that miss at 22:30?!

 

What about 24:33? It went above the head of the pilot, through the rotor disc, next to the rotor shaft and out. This is the some Matrix stuff right there!

Edited June 2, 2018 by Cunning_Fox

[FragBum]

This is only a suggestion.

 

 

Add some curvature to you throttle (collective) input to help make the lower AoA settings have a bit more travel, try -10 this can help with hovering IGE and setting down and pickup.

 

Put saturation into X and Y with a joystick you could drop saturation down to maybe 50% and for the Gazelle maybe a little curvature.

 

Get some books or something and stack these beside the joystick as a rest for hand use one or 2 fingers and thumb to move the cyclic, seriously.

 

Watch these guys it's a very "casual" grip on the cyclic and the wrist is supported.

 

 

With my logitech 3DPro it had a built in dead zone and this makes sense as far as a joystick goes but it doesn't for a cyclic and the centric nature of the Gazelle s cyclic in particular. As what it did was caused me over correct then I would have to correct that out and so forth because with a slight input nothing happened causing me to add more input then well that input acted on the aircraft, I was okay after I worked out what was going on, even better now that I have reasonable cyclic control input. :)

 

Another technique is to just blip the cyclic to apply the input and bring it back to the position where the aircraft is balanced so that you end up just doing a series of blips rather then pushing the cyclic over.

 

HTH:D

[Cunning_Fox]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J6reyWQA0DEnbcltLmrxgA6p63Xwxmrm/view?usp=sharing

 

Don't exactly have a dream setup here.

 

I have to extend my arms to use the HOTAS and that beanbag behind the chair is stopping it from rolling away.

[FragBum]

Gotta say that stick might have been nice this afternoon when I took the FA18 out. :D

 

Not as fancy this way.

 

 

BTW what map are the trk files for?

[Cunning_Fox]

Caucassus

[Quadg]

OP the videos are supposed to encourage you not discourage you :)

I could not fly helicopters at all 24 months ago.

and if an idiot like me can learn it, without lessons, anyone can :)

 

as long as they put the hours in.

 

this forum is full of people looking for shortcuts :)

 

and the truth is there are no shortcuts to learning helicopters.

you just need to get to 1000 hours as quickly as possible.

you really cannot pay to win :)

 

because its your muscles that need to learn and not your brain. they need to learn "soft hands"

 

why I sopped making hardware changes at taking the spring out and then spent 6 months flying to get good :) boring training flights. mostly take-offs and landings.

 

and yes my brain got bored. but when I noticed I was flying and completely daydreaming about something else for an hour. then I knew my muscles were ready.

 

and from that point it has all been giggles. you graduate from being a peter pilot to pilot.

 

so don't get discouraged. what you are going through all helicopter pilots go through.

 

and another thing, you never stop learning either.

probably 1500 hours in the huey and I still learn stuff every flight. or see something old from a new angle.

 

why I frigging love helicopters. just when you are getting bored you have a "I did not know it could do that" moment..

 

and as you can see from my 3week gazelle video. most of the skills transfer between airframes and only need polishing.

 

so bin the trim and centre spring and teach your muscles, and be prepared for it to take some time.

listening to music to keep the brain occupied :)

 

try Fu Man Chu :) old but great for long journeys.

[fjacobsen]

The transition from forward flight to hove must be done gradually.

In hollywood movies You will see alot of quick stops - forget that.

 

 

pitch back on the cycle to reduce speed and lower the collective inorder not to climb.

 

 

Monitor descend rate and decceleraion.

 

 

Once You get slow - add som rudder to counter torque induced yaw.

Most important - monitor descend rate and keep it within safe margin.

 

 

Controlling the Gazelle near hover means alot of small corrections and focus on descend rate.

 

 

Learn to anticipate in what direction to control before required.

Be patient and wait forYour control input to take effect.

 

 

The helicopter will always lag behind You control input, so stop controlling just before start going in the opposit direction.

 

 

There is no substitute from practicing - practicing.

 

 

Don´t compare to the KA-50, UH-1D ot MI-8 !

This is a small light helo and very agile.

[Cunning_Fox]

Thanks guys.

 

I'd like to start from the top though, do you have a link to all the essential Heli videos for just learning how to fly?

 

I have been able to learn to fly Mistral good enough to shoot down SU-27 enemy AI.

 

Still, my heli driving is far from what I see on the net. Also, I have put the strongest string on my X-55 and it helped a lot. When I take it off -- the heli goes mental.

 

No sexual innuendos meant.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oS27A_5T4p8CRzhQMkHkHoLU_IIxe-lB/view?usp=sharing

[FragBum]

Thanks guys.

 

I'd like to start from the top though, do you have a link to all the essential Heli videos for just learning how to fly?

 

I have been able to learn to fly Mistral good enough to shoot down SU-27 enemy AI.

 

Still, my heli driving is far from what I see on the net. Also, I have put the strongest string on my X-55 and it helped a lot. When I take it off -- the heli goes mental.

 

No sexual innuendos meant.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oS27A_5T4p8CRzhQMkHkHoLU_IIxe-lB/view?usp=sharing

 

No one said anything,... :P

 

Just use the force,..

[ouPhrontis]

Maybe I am missing something in Tacview, but I don't find that terribly useful for watching pilot inputs, it's great from a tactical overview, though what would be more useful is the .trk file that DCS itself builds.

[Quadg]

the hardest bit to learn is the transition from out of ground effect forward flight to a stationary ground effect hover.

 

I learned this by hot spawning on the end of a runway. then I flew to the other end of the runway and landed. repeat the other way.

use the runways markings to aim for. and you have two landing spots a mile apart.

and you can do 50 landings in half an hour.

 

an afternoon of this or even just a couple of hours. and the gazelle will not feel so crazy.

and its not as boring as it sounds, as your confidence goes up you will start doing some of the more silly approaches :)

 

read the chucks guide, understand it. visualise it in your brain. then go teach your muscles by repeating until they start to get it.

I suppose with the gazelle having co-op you could also find someone to show you :)

you would probably pick up more tips in 5 minutes than hours of watching video :)

man I wish I could have done that in the huey :)

[Cunning_Fox]

Maybe I am missing something in Tacview, but I don't find that terribly useful for watching pilot inputs, it's great from a tactical overview, though what would be more useful is the .trk file that DCS itself builds.

 

Well, sometimes I forget to save the track file so I just pop into my TV folder.

[Rogue Trooper]

With the Gazelle you are simply applying pressure to the cyclic.

Small movements are king when you bring her in to hover.

 

 

This is the most enjoyable airframe when it comes to bringing weapons to bare.

[ouPhrontis]

Not that I am any kind of instructor, far from it, but I cannot help but think; wouldn't it be nice to have a control system for dual controlled modules, where you could take over control if things got wild, "I have control", so a 'student' was getting into PIOs, you could take the stick and override them.

 

I'd like to see Fox's inputs, Tacview is great but not suited to this, yet (2.0 inbound).

[Quadg]

the co-pilot can take command in the gazelle by pressing the A key. (technically they are vehicle commander)

 

but unless you, your co-pilot and the server are on the same LAN then there is terrible delay.

 

because the master aircraft is the pilots copy. so all inputs need to be checked with that.

[FragBum]

the co-pilot can take command in the gazelle by pressing the A key. (technically they are vehicle commander)

 

but unless you, your co-pilot and the server are on the same LAN then there is terrible delay.

 

because the master aircraft is the pilots copy. so all inputs need to be checked with that.

 

It's a shame that aspect of control got dropped. I understand the reasoning. I just wonder if they passed some token between players via the server if they could change the function of that aircraft to "master".

 

I never got to try that feature on a it wasn't useful on MP servers, how well did it work over a LAN?

 

 

@ Cunning_Fox

 

From when I used a joystick it's likely the spring maybe with a built in dead zone and the responsive nature of the Gazelle. Before I built the cyclic prototype I actually did use a stack of books to support my wrist and even loosing the center detent and spring from the joystick made a difference.

 

With regards to the cyclic (well all) input and I know this might sound a bit weird but whilst there is a delay from input to reaction, mass inertia etc. I find if you think of it as putting an input in "now" for some future desired outcome, think from 10's of milliseconds to seconds in the future flying is just simpler.

 

Having a break, even flying a different helicopter can help a lot. practice and even some theory can help as well.

[Cunning_Fox]

 

Having a break, even flying a different helicopter can help a lot. practice and even some theory can help as well.

 

Since I've got most of the modules this is what I do. But I have to force myself to learn Gazelle. I must be awesome at it. My target is to be instructor-level by the end of next week.

 

What's a good server to learn SA342, btw? I'm in Hong Kong, so I guess lag will be expected and people here don't really play stuff like this.

 

 

From when I used a joystick it's likely the spring maybe with a built in dead zone and the responsive nature of the Gazelle. Before I built the cyclic prototype I actually did use a stack of books to support my wrist and even loosing the center detent and spring from the joystick made a difference.

 

.

 

You've seen my setup, or if you haven't -- look in one of the previous posts. My hand is outstretched all the time, which makes it difficult to control anything, I can't even bend it. Thinking of buying a sim chair, but I don't want to invest into a specialised one just yet.

 

With the Gazelle you are simply applying pressure to the cyclic.

Small movements are king when you bring her in to hover.

 

 

This is the most enjoyable airframe when it comes to bringing weapons to bare.

 

I like a challenge, so yes. The way I hover is actually quite the opposite -- I ride her like a horse and I pull on the reins just before I hover (look for my replays in Tacview). Out of all the ways of flying that I've tried so far -- this has been the most successful; I also add collective vigorously as I compensate for the drop, and since my vector of thrust moves from down to forward -- the speed bleeds faster.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Cunning_Fox

[Holton181]

My hand is outstretched all the time, which makes it difficult to control anything, I can't even bend it.

The word "difficult" in this context I would say being a grave understatement!

If you want to be proficient flying helicopters, do whatever you can to change your setup. In my opinion, how your physical setup is configured is vastly more important for helicopter flying than any other type of simulation, no-one even come close!

Your fingers, hand and wrist (also the rest of your arm) need to be relaxed because it is with those you balance your helicopter to the most part. Thats why helicopter pilots, both simers and IRL, rest their forarm on their thigh, and basically holding the stick with only 2-3 fingers.

[Quadg]

 

I never got to try that feature on a it wasn't useful on MP servers, how well did it work over a LAN?

 

I forgot they disabled it..

I never got to try it either. but I figured if it was going to work it would have to be over LAN :)

way to much overhead in having the server between the two clients. for pings higher than 20 :)

 

they need to have the pilot and co-pilot clients talking to each other directly.

but even that would have some delay for the co-pilot. depending a lot on ping.

or do it like SRS. have a separate server for pilot/co-pilot. that frees them from the game server for controls. ie a dedicated server just for linking co pilots to pilots. join to that first then both go into multiplayer and join an aircraft.

let that server handle the communication between master and slave. the game server has enough on its plate. and if the pilot runs the sever.... then he can talk directly to a client..

 

cribob and polychop need to have a chat :) control inputs instead of voice input, every switch and light and function will need a channel. :)

 

or we need a dedicated game server that can handle it. but that's a whole different kettle of threads :)

[FragBum]

The word "difficult" in this context I would say being a grave understatement!

If you want to be proficient flying helicopters, do whatever you can to change your setup. In my opinion, how your physical setup is configured is vastly more important for helicopter flying than any other type of simulation, no-one even come close!

Your fingers, hand and wrist (also the rest of your arm) need to be relaxed because it is with those you balance your helicopter to the most part. Thats why helicopter pilots, both simers and IRL, rest their forarm on their thigh, and basically holding the stick with only 2-3 fingers.

 

Mighty interesting,.

[FragBum]

I forgot they disabled it..

I never got to try it either. but I figured if it was going to work it would have to be over LAN :)

way to much overhead in having the server between the two clients. for pings higher than 20 :)

 

they need to have the pilot and co-pilot clients talking to each other directly.

but even that would have some delay for the co-pilot. depending a lot on ping.

or do it like SRS. have a separate server for pilot/co-pilot. that frees them from the game server for controls. ie a dedicated server just for linking co pilots to pilots. join to that first then both go into multiplayer and join an aircraft.

let that server handle the communication between master and slave. the game server has enough on its plate. and if the pilot runs the sever.... then he can talk directly to a client..

 

cribob and polychop need to have a chat :) control inputs instead of voice input, every switch and light and function will need a channel. :)

 

or we need a dedicated game server that can handle it. but that's a whole different kettle of threads :)

 

Yes it seems like a great feature even if only for a LAN. :D WAN handover could be a second or so but can set that up in flight easily for the helis. :D