Question about course line

[unknown]

Hi @ll,

i have a question about the course line. If i select a TACAN channel or a waypoint a get a marker on my HUD heading tape to indicate my course to the TACAN/waypoint(picture 1). As soon as i set a course line for that selected waypoint/TACAN the marker disappears(picture2). Is this working like intended?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's perfectly right, as it does make sense: if you want to track a course line, you need to concentrate on that; a heading bug is a distraction.

[mhe]

Look below on the second pic. Next to your FPV in the HUD there is now a CDI that also rotates. And you can read CSEL value and see the course line on any DDI/AMPCD that displays the HSI page with TACAN selected. But you only really need the HUD if you selected a course.

According to the HUD view on the second picture, you selected the course line 180° off (pointing away from the boat instead towards it).

[Goa]

is the CSEL same of BRC (base recovery course) ?

[TonyG]

NATOPS pg 176

 

 

18. Command heading marker. When waypoint/OAP or TACAN direct great circle steering is selected, the command heading marker is displayed just below the heading scale.

19. Steering arrow and dots. When waypoint/OAP or TACAN course line steering is selected, the steering arrow and dots appear on the HUD.

 

 

It's one or the other.

[TonyG]

is the CSEL same of BRC (base recovery course) ?

 

Yes, you would set CSEL to the BRC.

[ttaylor0024]

NATOPS pg 176

 

 

 

 

 

It's one or the other.

 

Incorrect, the steering arrow and dots = CDI on the HUD, which is in the middle. The command heading marker is up in the heading tape. When you box your source (WPT or TCN), the command heading marker will show up as a wind corrected direct to heading to whatever you have selected. Putting in a course does not remove this, in fact it's very handy to have the command heading marker up because when you're on a radial tracking it inbound, no matter what the wind is, place your heading on that marker and you will not drift off your radial. If you continue looking in the examples a few pages prior to the page you listed, you'll see an example of the course line being up without the command heading marker on, and that's because in the description it says ILS steering, which means that ILS would be boxed, ILS doesn't work like TACAN with radials, it's just basically two frequency bands for for localizer (and two more for glideslope) and your aircraft compares where you are in relation to the two as your localizer / glideslope, meaning there's no way for that to have a command heading marker.

 

You should be able to have both up at the same time, you should be able to see your tacan course line even if the tacan symbol isn't visible on the map's scale.

Edited June 8, 2018 by ttaylor0024

[TonyG]

I’m not going to argue with you, if you can post the applicable notice or page from the NATOPS manual please go ahead.

 

What is referenced in the NATOPS manual coincides with the behaviour in the sim. Are they both wrong?

[ttaylor0024]

I’m not going to argue with you, if you can post the applicable notice or page from the NATOPS manual please go ahead.

 

What is referenced in the NATOPS manual coincides with the behaviour in the sim. Are they both wrong?

 

What you posted said nothing about one being removed when the other was on. Steering arrow and command heading marker aren't the same thing. How I described it is how it actually works.

Edited June 9, 2018 by ttaylor0024

[TonyG]

I’m aware they’re different. I posted the relavent sections showing that the Command Heading Market and the Steering arrow and dots are mutually exclusive of each other.

 

Show me where it says you can have the course line on and also a Command Heading Marker on at the same time.

 

I said nothing about ILS and posted nothing about ILS.

[ttaylor0024]

I’m aware they’re different. I posted the relavent sections showing that the Command Heading Market and the Steering arrow and dots are mutually exclusive of each other.

 

Show me where it says you can have the course line on and also a Command Heading Marker on at the same time.

 

I said nothing about ILS and posted nothing about ILS.

 

As per your post:

 

18. Command heading marker. When waypoint/OAP or TACAN direct great circle steering is selected, the command heading marker is displayed just below the heading scale.

 

19. Steering arrow and dots. When waypoint/OAP or TACAN course line steering is selected, the steering arrow and dots appear on the HUD.

 

So when one is selected, both items happen. Where does it say one is removed in lieu of the other? It's difficult to find HUD footage of boring enroute stuff from IRL, but here's a snip of a hud repeater of a rhino coming into the break. You can clearly see the command heading (although hard to see because of the footage, but right side of the heading arrow) and course, because again, that's how it works. You won't see it on most videos though landing on the boat because ICLS is boxed and displayed.

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by ttaylor0024

[TonyG]

OK, great picture of a Super Hornet.....looks like the heading caret to me, unless the Super Hornet also removes the heading caret to make room for the heading command marker.

 

Again, please point out where in the NATOPS manual it says any of that about the Legacy Hornet? Review pages 748-752 of the manual and get back to me.

 

I understand you’re in the navy or something, but it doesn’t automatically make you right. Again, the NATOPS manual and the behaviour in the sim clearly disagree with what you’re saying.

[key_stroked]

 

 

Looks like the ILS needles to me near the VVI, not the course arrow and deviation dots.

And the top looks like the heading carrot for the heading tape. That isn't the thick line that shows direction to a TACAN source or a waypoint.

And as someone else said, it's not even the same jet.

 

You're trying to prove a point using pictures of a completely different jet, and the picture doesn't even show the symbology that everyone else is referring to.

[ttaylor0024]

The heading indicator is there, like I said, hard to see because of the video.

 

Looks like it could have been a software update to keep it displayed after looking through my stuff, as ours is persistent (even with the same great circle/steering terminology)

[key_stroked]

The heading indicator is there, like I said, hard to see because of the video.

 

Ok..even if it actually is the heading indicator, there is no course line/arrow or deviation dots showing near the VVI. All I see are the ILS needles.

And even if what you say is true, then how would you explain this video? It's also a super hornet, but there is no heading indicator on the HUD compass tape when the boat's TACAN CSEL course line is showing both in the HUD and the HSI:

 

 

I took a screenshot of the video right before he finishes his last turn into the groove.

 

Here's the original resolution:

 

 

Here's a zoomed in version with labels of what I think the symbols actually are.

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Halcyon

[IvanK]

I believe they are mutually exclusive. You either have Great Circle steering selected so you get the ref on the heading tape. If you move to Course Line steering the direct to marker on the heading scale is removed. In the case of NAVY ILS you are not using Course Line steering and the tick on the heading scale is an uplinked command heading anyway.

 

This HUD video shows a complete display in NAV master mode with Couse line steering selected. Granted a little hard to see bit no where throughout the display do you see a steering ref on the Heading tape.

 

 

 

 

In the second video a similar display with Great circle steering selected. the Heading marker clearly visible .. in most cases at full scale deflection

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by IvanK

[ttaylor0024]

Newer software packages do both, older does not, which is where my mixup came from

[key_stroked]

Newer software packages do both, older does not, which is where my mixup came from

 

That makes more sense. Afaik the version we got is a 2005 era F-18C.

[unknown]

Thank you all for your replys! I'm no aviation guy but whas curious how/why it's working like this.

Back to :joystick: this lovely bird for me now. :thumbup:

[Eaglewings]

Hello fellows

 

I have been experiencing lately some discrepancies in the way the course line is displayed in error on the HSI.

The course line does not align with the runway. This has happened to me in Nellis AFB (Nevada map) and Kutaisi Airfield (Caucasus map). The course line is placed far away from the actual runway heading.

Is there something I am not doing right? Has anyone experienced this or is a known issue?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Probably need a screenshot at least to help you. Remember that the TACAN isn't at the end of the runway, so don't expect your course, heading and deviation line to all line up as you cross the threshold.

[Mule]

Hello fellows

 

I have been experiencing lately some discrepancies in the way the course line is displayed in error on the HSI.

The course line does not align with the runway. This has happened to me in Nellis AFB (Nevada map) and Kutaisi Airfield (Caucasus map). The course line is placed far away from the actual runway heading.

Is there something I am not doing right? Has anyone experienced this or is a known issue?

 

Yep same here. I am always off by 20 degrees or so from runway heading. When I get visual I have to adjust a lot. I would have thought it would be more accurate than what's in the sim. I know it's a non precision approach but still.

[Mule]

Probably need a screenshot at least to help you. Remember that the TACAN isn't at the end of the runway, so don't expect your course, heading and deviation line to all line up as you cross the threshold.

 

I hear you but I get this about 6 to 8 miles out. I know it's more sensitive the closer you get etc.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I hear you but I get this about 6 to 8 miles out. I know it's more sensitive the closer you get etc.

 

That's a factor too, but not what I had in mind. I was referring to the TACAN being offset. If you keep getting this I'd be interested to see a screenshot (it's not something I've seen).

[Eaglewings]

Like Mule has noted the offset is so wide it is several miles away from the actual runway. Agreed it is not precision instruments but it should bring us near the neighborhood of the threshold.

I would try and reproduce and post a screen shot. It happens randomly.