Carrier landing without flaps

[Simicro]

Hi all,

 

I bought the Hornet recently and I'm practicing carrier landing.

 

I have not practiced carrier landing since the days of Hornet 2.0 by Graphsim for Macintosh!

 

In DCS I am using the instant mission provided.

 

I can now land successfully. However I realize that I read too quickly Chuck's Guide. Indeed, during all my approach I don't use flaps and can manage easily the AOA (maintain the yellow "donut"). I'm used to doing that way now. I tried to deploy the flaps as per the procedure but flying the approach become then more difficult: need more power and correct trimming.

 

I am seeking for thoughts on that, and especially: is it OK to land on the carrier without using flaps?

[Gandalf_56]

I beleive the the normal procedure is using full flaps.

 

When you deploy the full flaps, the nose of the plane will be up and the tail and the hook will go down. In this way you will increase the chances to get a wire on the deck.

 

 

 

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[SonofEil]

I beleive the the normal procedure is using full flaps.

 

When you deploy the full flaps, the nose of the plane will be up and the tail and the hook will go down. In this way you will increase the chances to get a wire on the deck.

 

 

 

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Technically if he's got the donut he's at the correct angle for a wire catch. The problem (if this were reality, or when ED updates damage models to ship and/or plane) is that with flaps up he's likely traveling much too fast for a safe trap.

[Talonx1]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215106

Tons of videos and tips on carrier landings. Search around forums and youtube.

[maxTRX]

Hi all,

 

I bought the Hornet recently and I'm practicing carrier landing.

 

I have not practiced carrier landing since the days of Hornet 2.0 by Graphsim for Macintosh!

 

In DCS I am using the instant mission provided.

 

I can now land successfully. However I realize that I read too quickly Chuck's Guide. Indeed, during all my approach I don't use flaps and can manage easily the AOA (maintain the yellow "donut"). I'm used to doing that way now. I tried to deploy the flaps as per the procedure but flying the approach become then more difficult: need more power and correct trimming.

 

I am seeking for thoughts on that, and especially: is it OK to land on the carrier without using flaps?

 

If you leave the flaps in Auto, you are in UA mode (up & away) and the flaps are controlled by fbw so if the pitch CAS decided the flaps are needed... the flaps drop down, not to full though.

I don't know what the limit is for UA. The jet flies quite different with gear down and flaps up.

Of course I had to try landing in UA mode (you made me do it!) I was light weight, the nose was "a bit" high when touching down at 178 kts. Loud thump but no scraping the runway with the tail and the tires were ok. In the external view during approach it looked like the flaps were lowered somewhere near the half position.

[Eldur]

Basically, you land on-speed AoA. Flap settings then just alter the speed you bring in. And that is static when 8.1° AoA is being held by the CAS, so it should not play around with the auto flaps. It's just needless stress to the airframe, but not a real issue in DCS since you'd get a brand new airframe everytime you start a mission. Just try to get used to configuration with flaps full down, drop them and gear after slowing down past 195 KIAS and add power in time to prevent yourself from brick falling down into the drink, stabilize with power, then trim the E bracket (you start out trimmed to 4.1° AoA if you don't touch it and it's easier to trim when being stable already).

[AMEDooley]

It does change the pitch of the plane if you land with no flaps. The angle is not correct and you’re too fast. To achieve the right angle to trap, in real life not the game, you have to use flaps to slow you down to the correct speed. Trust me, having done some LSO missions with the Stingers you learn really fast when someone’s not configured correctly. There’s a reason why Flaps to full is part of the landing checklist.

[Doum76]

It does change the pitch of the plane if you land with no flaps. The angle is not correct and you’re too fast. To achieve the right angle to trap, in real life not the game, you have to use flaps to slow you down to the correct speed. Trust me, having done some LSO missions with the Stingers you learn really fast when someone’s not configured correctly. There’s a reason why Flaps to full is part of the landing checklist.

 

 

 

 

I might be mistaken, if he's on Speed, Orange Donut, his AoA/Pitch should be 8.1, though to achieve it, he needs to be faster as more throttle is required to maintain the drag required to avoid falling down like a rock with the lack of drags from the flaps deployed, so more likely faster than the 150 kts zone, but i might be wrong as i never tried with flaps up.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Doum76

[AG-51_Razor]

Being a rotorhead, I could be mistaken about this but I do believe that the AoA is an angle that is NOT dependent on the aircraft speed, and is not a set angle relative to horizontal. However, if the landing configuration - gear and flaps deployed and a specific range of landing weight - is constant then the actual angle of the airframe relative to the flight deck should be fairly consistent and I believe that is how they determine the geometry of the tailhook. If you're approaching with the flaps in auto (or up) and they are not fully down, then the airspeed will be higher and therefore the actual angle of the airframe relative to the deck will be different (higher?). Does this make sense?

Edited July 12, 2018 by AG-51_Razor
Clarification

[Talonx1]

Back to original post, to answer your question “is it ok?” Thats subjective. Can you live through it in DCS? Youve already answered that for yourself so is it OK in regards to what? Would any real pilot being doing it unless it was required for emergency? No. Are you in a wing/squadron that tries to replicate real world procedures? If no then knock yourself out. If yes then do what they expect of you. IMO just learn to do it properly. Its worth it and if ED update the damage model to reflect damage from improper landing procedures you’ll be glad you did.

[Simicro]

Many thanks everybody for all your valuable inputs and views :)

 

For your information, without flaps, with the right AOA (yellow donut displayed) I touch down on the deck at 160-170 kts.

 

Back to original post, to answer your question “is it ok?” Thats subjective. Can you live through it in DCS? Youve already answered that for yourself so is it OK in regards to what? Would any real pilot being doing it unless it was required for emergency? No. Are you in a wing/squadron that tries to replicate real world procedures? If no then knock yourself out. If yes then do what they expect of you. IMO just learn to do it properly. Its worth it and if ED update the damage model to reflect damage from improper landing procedures you’ll be glad you did.

 

You said it all Talonx1 :thumbup:

 

I'm not in a squad and I'm lazy but I'll now train to land with full flaps as per the procedure.

 

Thanks again everybody for your kind help.

[crab]

Being a rotorhead, I could be mistaken about this but I do believe that the AoA is an angle that is NOT dependent on the aircraft speed, and is not a set angle relative to horizontal. However, if the landing configuration - gear and flaps deployed and a specific range of landing weight - is constant then the actual angle of the airframe relative to the flight deck should be fairly consistent and I believe that is how they determine the geometry of the tailhook. If you're approaching with the flaps in auto (or up) and they are not fully down, then the airspeed will be higher and therefore the actual angle of the airframe relative to the deck will be different (higher?). Does this make sense?

 

 

For practical purposes AOA is relative to flight path and does not change when considering a specific number, 8.1 degrees AOA is 8.1 AOA in any configuration and speed in which it can be attained. What does change terms of approach is the flight path, speed, and relative angle to the surface. As an example consider a clean aircraft traveling at 350 knots; use the stick to put it into an 8.1 AOA and you're climbing with a different angle to the surface than when doing the same at a lower speed and configuration where you might be in level flight or descending.

 

 

 

I in no way mean to be condescending here because I'm just now starting to get half decent at maintaining a decent AOA on approach but here it is... Practice. If a pathetic old man like me can get half ass anybody can, keep working at it.

[Jabbers_]

As explained here, the reason you want onspeed AOA of 8.1 isnt the speed as much as it gives you the proper angle between the hook and and gear so the hook grabs the wire at the same time your wheels hit the deck, to little pitch, the hook can miss, to much and the wire will slam you into the deck.

 

lm-M3VUy-_I

[Nosferatuwhisky 1-1]

part of the point of flaps is to give you the most lift at the lowest speeds...you don't want to land fast....its bad mmmkay

[BSS_Sniper]

Nothing bad will happen if you land with flaps auto. You will trap, game will work fine, aircraft will be undamaged.

 

 

For now...the entire point of these modules is to do things correctly. Landing at 160-170 isn't correct and will break things. Hopefully in the near future it will be implemented along with landing over weight.