Doubleseaters...

[smithyc]

I've played the good old Longbow Apache in coop mode, gunner-pilot via LAN...and it was absolutely perfect gaming experience...what is your opinion to doubleseaters in future Lock-On addons ?

[Woodstock]

I've played the good old Longbow Apache in coop mode, gunner-pilot via LAN...and it was absolutely perfect gaming experience...what is your opinion to doubleseaters in future Lock-On addons ?

First, there won´t be any "future LockOn add-ons".

But, there are plans for successor simulations, like e.g. "Tank Killers".

If we speculate and say Tank Killers will feature Su-25, A-10, Ka-50 and AH-64D as flyables, which is not shure yet, then it would be wise of ED to make at least the apache multiplayer-doubleseater and maybe consider a Ka-52.

It is one of the coolest features ever in flight simulator games that dates back to Microprose´s F-15E Strike Eagle III and it made the Longbow series and Jane´s F-15 outstanding games.

While in the last years it was omitted in Falcon4 and LOMAC, I guess mainly because of time/money restrictions, the trend definitely goes towards including it again. Microsoft made the first step with the multicrew-cockpit in FSX, FighterOps will have it as well, and so should every other sim to come!

[Highwayman-Ed]

I absolutely would love a double seater. I really really hope I don't have to wait too long before I get to fly the AH-64 again, as it's been too long since Janes Longbow...

 

I know it's been said over and over that there will not be 2 seaters in Lock On, but how I wish... :(

 

Even a single player AH-64 experience would do :noexpression:

[Groove]

Tu-160 sim for the win if we speak about multiseaters !

[britgliderpilot]

I think it'd be fantastic for gameplay, but with a sim of Black Shark's complexity will be difficult to both implement and use . . . .

 

 

There's something about the network code that makes it difficult, too - I can't remember exactly what, though.

 

v1.02 included some experimental code that allowed control of an aircraft in a LAN game by two players at once - I made a little mod for it and at least one squad used it for training flights in an Su30 :)

 

However, I understand there was a significant difference in the LAN and internet coding - and the LAN code got junked at v1.1.

 

 

Just thinking about the amount of information that would have to be passed back and forth between the two players of a two-seater gives me a headache . . . .

 

 

With all that said, the Ka50 is the only single-seat military chopper . . . well . . . ever, really. So if ED want to move on to other helicopters then they'll have to crack the two-seat idea :)

[britgliderpilot]

Tu-160 sim for the win if we speak about multiseaters !

 

I hate to say it . . . . but do you not think that might be a bit boring? ;)

[Groove]

I hate to say it . . . . but do you not think that might be a bit boring? ;)

 

britgliderpilot, after this saturdays multi-squad mission nothing is boring for me. Imagine all the ordenance you can use with the Tu-160 !

 

 

And then in future Multi-Squad Missions i would use this baby against the evil BlueForce:

 

 

Ah hell, let me my dreams !!!1

[thesystem]

what the heck....

 

That's one huge missile:pilotfly:

[Focha]

Oh yeah... crew of two!

 

PLEASE :cry: MAKE IT!

[zaelu]

I am shure coding a multiseater airsim would be a great deal but the gains in gameplay, immersion, atmosphere would be great also.

 

The first step would be to model not the dual control but the double sitters as pilot and weapons operator. There are a lot of airplanes or helos that could fit here... F14 and Apache could be some of them.

 

I think the future lies in here and the game developers (not only the sim ones) are coping with the demand too slowly.

You see... 'cooperative gametype' of gameplay is something gamers "asked" after 'teambased gametype' hit the market yet the response from game producers was almost none (remember how much time CS was the king in this realm). Console gaming is apparently the leading front in cooperative gaming as split screening facility kind of demands it.

 

I think one of the fears of game devs are that nobody wants to be the second crew member in a plane or tank etc... I think Battlefield serries proved this presumtion false. I played numerous time as "Weapons Operator" in double sitters in BF2 and it was very rewarding when at least a minimum of comunication was present between me and the pilot. Sometimes the pilot was driving perfectly (for the arcade style of the game of course) the helys or the Su-34 (F15E) with a gamepad while I was unable to do some good work with a HOTAS and Rudder Pedals but, that didn't put me down in having fun and great satisfaction after winning a match by sheer air domination. Heck... my best score in BF2 is made as a weapons operator in F15E and is a match I remember even now (it was on Kubra Dam :D ).

 

Team based gameplay made posible a new level of interconnection between players. It made the Internet gaming explode. There is no real Internet Game that doesn't have teamplay as its core. First was a team of equal players like Quake 3 TDM or CTF... then it was Team Arena which brought the specialized "start on power ups", this made the players be better at specialized tasks, then you have CS and WoW... two games I din't played and I kinda hate but, I cannot stop and give them a Hats Off before criticise them :) . An evolution is BF2. It's caracter persistence and team based/ squad based multirole gametype is ground braking.... and money bringer for Dice and EA. And it has multi sitters with multi roles vehicles :) .

 

I am shure people here can bring a lot of other examples of good games that have at least partialy those options.

 

I play IL-2 (for example) not because of the "kills" or "target hits" but because of the fun and great experience i get to fly with my squad where most of the time there are roles assigned for everyone... some are great and herolike type some are grunt like type... but that's the beauty of it. And sometimes we just make a 'coop' where we climb as gunners on some bombers and try to defend our "lifes" from incoming fighters.

 

Another great experience was when I was playing a coop match against AI on a third party map in "Far Cry"... we were 7-8 humans against "an island" of enemies. That was before BF2 :D ...

 

Anyway... my point is... cooperative gaming is teh future and one good mean to attract and hook more fans of one particular game. Having cooperative operation type vehicles adds a next bar to the genre.

[graywo1fg]

it would be sooooOOOOOOO awesome for training purposes too.

[Highwayman-Ed]

I think it'd be fantastic for gameplay, but with a sim of Black Shark's complexity will be difficult to both implement and use . . . .

 

 

There's something about the network code that makes it difficult, too - I can't remember exactly what, though.

 

v1.02 included some experimental code that allowed control of an aircraft in a LAN game by two players at once - I made a little mod for it and at least one squad used it for training flights in an Su30 :)

 

However, I understand there was a significant difference in the LAN and internet coding - and the LAN code got junked at v1.1.

 

 

Just thinking about the amount of information that would have to be passed back and forth between the two players of a two-seater gives me a headache . . . .

 

 

With all that said, the Ka50 is the only single-seat military chopper . . . well . . . ever, really. So if ED want to move on to other helicopters then they'll have to crack the two-seat idea :)

 

I don't see how it would be that complex though... If I'm missing something obvious let me know, but how much more data would need to get passed compared to the amount passed between two clients flying a tight two ship formation of A-10's for example?

 

The CPG would basically be along for the ride as far as the flight model goes, so their computations should actually reduce... and the data that he is generating in the case of lets say and AH-64 for example is purely where the TADS, etc are pointing and the release of weapons (which would have an effect on the flight model granted, but very minor).

 

Having flown multi ship formations on line with 1.12, I don't see how there would be any more complicated data being generated. Of course you're going to be more reliant on a lag free connection though to prevent the stuttering you sometimes get...

 

The real problems come if you needed an AI Crewman I'd say, then I could see there being complications... let's face it, there are lab rats with more tactical abilities than some of the AI in Lock on at the moment :thumbup:

[rogue_blade]

there already is a two seater addon somewhere i saw on lockonfiles. you can have two people in the f15 but the person in the back just has the same cockpit i think

[Aeroscout]

Ya, that's basically all you need... look at the same pit, right?

 

One armature idea i discovered was giving your friend the keyboard while you fly.

[Highwayman-Ed]

One armature idea i discovered was giving your friend the keyboard while you fly.

:megalol:

 

Like it, maybe for that TU-160 idea, you could give the throttle to another guy, and the monitor to someone else!

 

:joystick: :joystick: :joystick: :joystick: = 4 seater!

[Jester_159th]

I think the future lies in here and the game developers (not only the sim ones) are coping with the demand too slowly.

........

 

I think one of the fears of game devs are that nobody wants to be the second crew member in a plane or tank etc... I think Battlefield serries proved this presumtion false. I played numerous time as "Weapons Operator" in double sitters in BF2 and it was very rewarding when at least a minimum of comunication was present between me and the pilot.

 

 

I fully agree with you. Steel Beast ProPE allows you two or three players in a single tank (commander, gunner and driver), and although the driver's position is a bit on the boring side the overall experience is absolutely brilliant. I've not been online much with SB Pro, but the times I have, those with multi player crews were by far the best and most interesting.

 

If it was possible to get this in LOMAC's successor it would be great.