How to achieve smoother handling

[Shibbyland]

Just wondering if anybody here has tips for smoother low speed flying (hopefully a good controller setting), such as for a CASE 1 recovery.

 

 

I've got my curves set to about 35 to limit excessive movement with small inputs and I suspect it's a limitation of my controller (Logitech extreme 3D). I'm just finding the Hornet wallows around a lot at low speed and minimal control input. It's the only aircraft I have in game which seems to behave that way and it makes flying the ball quite tricky.

[Wrench]

I've said many times I don't use curves on any joystick for any module.

The extreme is a pretty precise joystick, so I'm surprised it's giving you trouble. I've always thought that the non-linearity of using curves actually makes it more difficult, as the stick deflection to control rate ratio is constantly changing. Cars don't have progressive steering or brakes, so why should a plane?

I haven't used my e3d for a long time though, so I'd be interested to know if for some reason the Hornet doesn't like it.

[BlackSharkAce]

Cars don't have progressive steering or brakes, so why should a plane?

 

 

Some cars actually do, see « Variable-ratio steering » here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering_ratio

 

Best regards,

[bbrz]

Furthermore stick length and deflection angle is usually way less on a joystick so using curves can be a necessary comprise.

Once you are using a 35 curve and maybe a large dead zone as well, it might be time to think about a new joystick.

After many years I've exchanged my still rather precise (so I thought) T16000M with a new one and the difference is surprisingly high.

 

Furthermore many aircraft are using a kind of 'progressive steering'. E.g. they switch off the outboard ailerons and/or restrict rudder travel above certain speeds etc.

Edited October 7, 2018 by bbrz

[Shibbyland]

I started using 30-35 for rudder years ago for WW2 sims, I found it helped make strafing runs a lot more manageable. I later found that it actually helped with fine control inputs across the board. I see what you're saying about progressive inputs and strictly speaking that's exactly what the curve is doing but I find it makes the inputs feel much more natural. At least with my Logitech, if I don't use those curves I find control inputs are incredibly aggressive. Admittedly my controller is 10 years old but it's always been really good and there's no other module in the game that feels so strange. The Hornet just loses the plot at low speed with my controller.

[David OC]

Just wondering if anybody here has tips for smoother low speed flying (hopefully a good controller setting), such as for a CASE 1 recovery.

 

I've got my curves set to about 35 to limit excessive movement with small inputs and I suspect it's a limitation of my controller (Logitech extreme 3D). I'm just finding the Hornet wallows around a lot at low speed and minimal control input. It's the only aircraft I have in game which seems to behave that way and it makes flying the ball quite tricky.

 

I have the CH fighter stick now and would like to upgrade, it is still very similar to your stick and my curves are only 15.

 

I do also have the CH Throttle tho!

 

Think you problem is controlling the throttle, if use the one on the Logitech? You don't pitch very much, if at all once on speed.

 

Are you controlling the throttle with the Logitech? If so, this would be very difficult with the hornet.

 

Here is a quick video I shot for someone recently.

 

 

Try to practice this out of the pattern first, get a good feel for her. Watch how there is very little pitching in the stick once on speed. You control your height with only the throttle.

 

If you need help understanding more about the navy on speed flying, check this thread. Watch the first video in that thread by a former F-18 pilot.

 

It's the only aircraft I have in game which seems to behave that way and it makes flying the ball quite tricky.

 

It's how the navy flies, there are no aircraft in the game that lands like this. All navy aircraft land like this for carrier operations.

 

Do you look like this video below when flying? It's all just throttle coming down to land flying the ball and bank for alignment.

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by David OC

[Wrench]

Some cars actually do, see « Variable-ratio steering » here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering_ratio

 

Best regards,

 

I know technically they do, but it doesn't really "kick in" until fairly close to the end of travel. This is more tonprevent having to crank the steering wheel at the extreme end of travel for parking. Not something one would ever notice while actually driving.

[Eaglewings]

This wallowing movement in low speed I have equalling discovered recently is causing me so much difficulty in Air to air refueling.

Can only make contact with basket with autopilot (Balt) engaged.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Eaglewings

[BlackSharkAce]

I know technically they do, but it doesn't really "kick in" until fairly close to the end of travel. This is more tonprevent having to crank the steering wheel at the extreme end of travel for parking. Not something one would ever notice while actually driving.

 

 

 

I think it also happens with relation to speed. I learned in university that your steering wheel is supposed behave differently with regard to speed so that if you yank it at high speed you’re less likely to crash. I’d need to try it in an actual car.

 

But I grew that’s different from a joystick curve in our case since it would not be speed dependent. Although maybe the FCS messes with it as well.

[David OC]

I think it also happens with relation to speed. I learned in university that your steering wheel is supposed behave differently with regard to speed so that if you yank it at high speed you’re less likely to crash. I’d need to try it in an actual car.

 

But I grew that’s different from a joystick curve in our case since it would not be speed dependent. Although maybe the FCS messes with it as well.

 

 

The only car I know that can do this is the Tesla "steer by wire", sort of the same as an aircraft. Like how the FCS can limit the controls for G's to protect the airframe and even more so when stores are added. Plus way way more stuff:cry:

 

Flamin_Squirrel

Answered the question about what a pilot feels from the FBW

[Talonx1]

35 is way too high. 15 is plenty for even the finest of small inputs during a2a refueling and if youre flying the plane properly on landing youre going to be using very little flight stick input as all your pitch control is made via the throttle once gear and flaps are down. At a setting of 35 youre gonna get almost no input then input is suddenly going to increase very rapidly resulting in constant over correcting. Ppl often dont realize that when you decrease sensitivity near the center of stick movement you are creating a sharp curve increasing sensitivity at the outer edges of movement. The less curves you use the more steady and predictable your movements are going to be.

 

My guess is that most of your problem though isnt curves but that youre not trimming to on speed aoa and are instead trying to man handle the plane down with the stick.

 

(Just saw DavidOC’s post earlier, basically just mirrored what he said)

Edited October 7, 2018 by Talonx1

[S]

I use a curve of 16 on X and Y axis on the stick. None on the rudders. I also have a deadzone of 10 on both X and Y (again, none on the rudders) and I don't have any trouble. I'm using the HOTAS Warthog so the deadzone really isn't 'necessary' but the stick is so sensitive that I found resting my hand on it was giving me a slight right-bank input so I put the deadzones in just to get rid of that. My brothers use a Logitech generic stick to fly and the deadzone/curves are an actual necessity with those so you may want to try adding in a deadzone of around 10 and see where it goes from there?

 

 

Cheers!

[Vannipo]

Virpil Stick:

• High deflection angle
  
• soft center
  
• 2 spring types
  
• useable without springs
  
• high resolution axis (16bit?) (CH not very useful, cause of 8bit)
  
• fantastic feel
  
• durable (base incl mechanics full metal)
  
• deadzone ZERO. No need.
  
• curve: ZERO. No need.
  

Believe me. "An expensive" joystick is more than worth the money.

You will get a complete NEW game, cause ANY modules feels new and great with it.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Vannipo

[bbrz]

I also have a deadzone of 10 on both X and Y (again, none on the rudders) and I don't have any trouble.

I did have to use a dead zone of 7 with my old T16000M and thought it was ok.

Now I'm using 1 on my new T16000M and the difference in handling and precision is like night and day.