F-14, the long waited aircraft! Will MIG-31BM be the next?

[Burning Bridges]

Afaik the MiG-25 had a structural limit of just 5g. I can already envision the outrage if their superplane flies apart as soon as people pull the stick. And I'm not saying that it would be impossible to fly but boring, more like an airliner.

[Burning Bridges]

The MiG-25 is the reason why Iran bought the F-14 in the first place and we have Iran in the game now, so that scenario can be modeled.

 

 

There was a lot of Western hysteria about the MiG 25, but once such a plane had defected it turned out to be mostly hype. You can google for a youtube documentary "Wings of the Red Star, Mig 25", it explains very well how the Mig-25 was designed only to catch Mach-3 bombers like the Valkyrie (the Russians were also prone to hype). It's capabilites as a fighter were null.

[MustangSally]

MiG-25PD would be a nice substitute for a MiG-31. It's combat proven and has shot down numerous aircraft.

 

....cough, cough - combat proven, really????

 

It was an overweight piece of junk that had the reliability of a Yugo!!!

Edited December 3, 2018 by MustangSally

[CarbonFox]

Zero expectations of ever seeing any variant of the Foxhound, even the early Mig-31A. Among Soviet-era aircraft, I'd rather see a full-fidelity MiG-23MLD.

[Mr_sukebe]

I’m sure I read somewhere of recommendations to avoid G limits beyond 2g in the Mig25. Good luck in any dogfight with that limitation.

Good bomber interceptor and recon, but fighter, maybe not.

[RaceFuel85]

I’m sure I read somewhere of recommendations to avoid G limits beyond 2g in the Mig25. Good luck in any dogfight with that limitation.

Good bomber interceptor and recon, but fighter, maybe not.

 

The maximum G load was rated at 4.5, however obviously in combat if you're really needing to you can exceed that.

 

In fact..a MiG-25 in Desert Storm got into a turning fight with a F-15..it didn't end well, but the F-15 pilot "began to suspect" that the MiG-25 pilot "wasn't Iraqi"..

 

being coy for indicating a Soviet pilot flying since the Soviet Union had a long history of supplying pilots unofficially.

[Eldur]

Afaik the MiG-25 had a structural limit of just 5g.

 

I've always been wondering about those numbers. I mean, this thing is built to go Mach 3+, how can it have at the same time have a structure that weak it's just safely capable of pulling 5G max? I'd suspect the speed puts a lot more stress on the airframe. Is it perhaps a limit that applies with missiles loaded? Would be more reasonable. But however, this thing would lose most dogfights anyway.

 

Wouldn't mind a MiG-25RBT module

[Vatikus]

At combat speeds 25 or 31 are flying 4.5g is more than enough. You need to remember to maneuver at high Mach, you are more limited to thrust than G. Mig25 and 31 will outturn most in sustained high speed turning.

[MustangSally]

I've always been wondering about those numbers. I mean, this thing is built to go Mach 3+, how can it have at the same time have a structure that weak it's just safely capable of pulling 5G max? I'd suspect the speed puts a lot more stress on the airframe. Is it perhaps a limit that applies with missiles loaded? Would be more reasonable. But however, this thing would lose most dogfights anyway.

 

Wouldn't mind a MiG-25RBT module

 

Easy, predominantly made of nickel steel, woeful quality control during manufacture and engines that couldn't be operated at max thrust for more than a few minutes.

[Silverado]

It was an overweight piece of junk that had the reliability of a Yugo!!!

Are you talking about F-14? :D

[Burning Bridges]

I've always been wondering about those numbers. I mean, this thing is built to go Mach 3+, how can it have at the same time have a structure that weak it's just safely capable of pulling 5G max? I'd suspect the speed puts a lot more stress on the airframe. Is it perhaps a limit that applies with missiles loaded? Would be more reasonable. But however, this thing would lose most dogfights anyway.

 

Wouldn't mind a MiG-25RBT module

 

 

As far as I understand it's the other way around, the speed necessitated the plane to be weak. In order to attain Mach 3 they needed to make the plane as light as possible and they could also not build from titanium. So they had to use a shortcut which was to make it only as strong as necessary, i.e. to take off, accelerate to Mach 3, shoot down a plane and land.

[Burning Bridges]

according to US sources on captured plane: 2.2g with tanks, 4.5g without

[Cann0nF0dd3r]

I've always been wondering about those numbers. I mean, this thing is built to go Mach 3+, how can it have at the same time have a structure that weak it's just safely capable of pulling 5G max? I'd suspect the speed puts a lot more stress on the airframe. Is it perhaps a limit that applies with missiles loaded? Would be more reasonable. But however, this thing would lose most dogfights anyway.

 

Wouldn't mind a MiG-25RBT module

 

That's easy, because it was never designed as an air superiority fighter. It was basically wings and a cockpit with a huge radar and a couple of weapons strapped to two massive engines. It was designed as a high speed high altitude interceptor, not a dog fighter.

[Burning Bridges]

Interceptors are an area where decision makers occasionally go overboard.

 

Think of what the Germans did with the Me-163. The first airplane that could break the sound barrier but it had only fuel for a few minutes of powered flight, went up vertically to the bombers overhead and was made from wood.

 

A british design - I believe it was the Saunders Roe SR 53 - had a mixed rocket/jet propulsion and would perhaps be much more interesting from a technical point of view. This could have been the standard interceptor of NATO forces, but as it went the Americans "persuaded" German defence minister Strauss the contract went to the Starfighter and the British design was abandoned.

[DartzIRL]

the Mig-25 was the way it was because its mission required it to be. It didn't need to turn hard. It needed to be fast - which meant resiliance to thermal stresses. It also needed to be light.

 

 

 

Unlike the Blackbird - it also had to operate in rough environments, on a battlefield, and be manufactured in mass quantities. This was not possible with Titanium. This made steel the logical choice.

[captain_dalan]

That's easy, because it was never designed as an air superiority fighter. It was basically wings and a cockpit with a huge radar and a couple of weapons strapped to two massive engines. It was designed as a high speed high altitude interceptor, not a dog fighter.

 

Essentially this. It's not the g-restrictions that make the MiG-25 a poor dog fighter, rather it's the lack of lift available. I mean, take a look at that envelope:

[Vatikus]

Unlike the Blackbird - it also had to operate in rough environments, on a battlefield, and be manufactured in mass quantities. This was not possible with Titanium. This made steel the logical choice.

And yet, it has higher G limit than Blackbird ;)