Avenger cannon

[Kuky]

I agree with you brewber... I find killing any ground targets in the A-10 very easy... you can get whole coloumn of vehicles (non armour ie. tanks) with guns in one pass... but in the Su-25 it's much harder... probably due to AFM where as you fire the gun recoil is well modeled and the aircaft noses down... firing the gunpods I find only very effective on clusters of light vehicles (trucks hummers etc) and manpads... but even then due to large dispersion hitting something is much harder in the frog.

[EscCtrl]

You call hits of depleted uranium amunition and its radioactivity after explosion negligble?

 

geees... it must be all the physicists are just crazy then :music_whistling: Do you have any idea what happens to our internal organs after you breathe in radioactive matierial?

 

Anyway... in the tank subject... best place and aspect to destroy a tank is from its rear and high

 

EDIT: by the way... those "heavy metals" are actually radio active elements because of the size of their nuclei... the large number of same charge particles (protons) is too great for the nuclei to be stable... which is why they "radiate" particles from the nuclei... which is what radioactivity is all about. The most radio active element is Plutonium...after which I think comes Uranium.

 

oh and this is good... half life for Uranium 235 (of which DU is made from) is about 700.000.000 years... Uranium 238... well...few Billion years :D

 

Am I right in thinking the majority of the radiation is alpha? if so then unless you are shot with the uranium round I doubt it'd do much if it landed in your tank, it's not at critical mass, it's not being induced via neutron bombardment. Alpha has a very short range as I'm sure you know.

 

As for plutonium being the most radioactive, what do you mean by that? Most unstable? releases the most mass in a given time period? longest/shortest half life?

[Kuky]

Alpha radiation is very damagable... but the particle has very short range in air... its only about few cm..10cm the most I think.

 

The reason why DU is so dangerous is not because it might hit you straight.. all the rounds need to do is hit the tank... the round explodes... it creates dust smoke... which contains DU particles... you enhale it and you're history.

 

Alpha radiation is very short ranged because of its mass (2 protons and 2 neutrons) but if you enhale particle radiating it you're a gonner... because it has very high tissue damaging effect. Going through the skin will take lots of its kinetic energy but once inside a body it's very very bad.

 

So people are fighting against use of DU because of this... and because of its half life rate it's pretty much dangerous forever.

 

By most radio active I mean overall most partcles released/time and duration of half life. There are radioactive particles used to inject into patients bloodstreem so it travels through whole your body... but it's half life is only few minutes so it's not that dangerous.

 

It's the accumulated radioactivity that becomes dangerous but in a case where radioactive particle with long half life enters your system it's permanently damaging to internal tissue, well how should I say... for a long time... untill you die... from it

[Viper101]

wtf is this....question about the avenger cannon, to the types of tanks there are, to the competition of who can kill a T-80 faster, to Uranium and Radiation chats. Man, after the last one I am almost certain the CIA and FBI are all up in your butts checking out who you are! LMFAO

[EscCtrl]

Alpha radiation is very damagable... but the particle has very short range in air... its only about few cm..10cm the most I think.

 

The reason why DU is so dangerous is not because it might hit you straight.. all the rounds need to do is hit the tank... the round explodes... it creates dust smoke... which contains DU particles... you enhale it and you're history.

 

Alpha radiation is very short ranged because of its mass (2 protons and 2 neutrons) but if you enhale particle radiating it you're a gonner... because it has very high tissue damaging effect. Going through the skin will take lots of its kinetic energy but once inside a body it's very very bad.

 

So people are fighting against use of DU because of this... and because of its half life rate it's pretty much dangerous forever.

 

By most radio active I mean overall most partcles released/time and duration of half life. There are radioactive particles used to inject into patients bloodstreem so it travels through whole your body... but it's half life is only few minutes so it's not that dangerous.

 

It's the accumulated radioactivity that becomes dangerous but in a case where radioactive particle with long half life enters your system it's permanently damaging to internal tissue, well how should I say... for a long time... untill you die... from it

 

Ah right makes sense now, was thinking so what if a lump of motlen DU sits next to you in a tank as you can give it 1-2cm of space and it'll leave you alone, didn't factor breathable dust.

 

 

By most radio active I mean overall most partcles released/time and duration of half life. There are radioactive particles used to inject into patients bloodstreem so it travels through whole your body... but it's half life is only few minutes so it's not that dangerous.

 

Though this makes little sense. How can a radioactive mass have one of the longest half lives and release a substantial mass per unit of time? a longer half life means less mass is released at a given time period.

[EscCtrl]

Just a little bit of trivia, Plutonium can be found in the power supply of some models of pacemakers, which are keeping many heart patients alive. :D

 

I assume it works on the same principle as an atomic clock then? using the the half life as a counting mechanism as opposed to a quartz crystal or articficial clock as in a CPU?

[EscCtrl]

I'm thinking that's probably true, but I don't know exactly how the Plutonium is employed. All I know is that it was chosen as a power source because it would last the lifetime of the patient, and nobody would have to open him back up again to change the batteries. :)

 

Heh I was wrong it has nothing to do with the half life this is the actual reasoning:

 

Frequency reference masers use glowing chambers of ionized gas, often caesium because that is the element used in the official international definition of the second.

 

Since 1967, the International System of Units (SI) has defined the second as the duration of 9 192 631 770 cycles of the radiation which corresponds to the transition between two energy levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom. This definition makes the cesium oscillator (often called an atomic clock) the primary standard for time and frequency measurements (see caesium standard). Other physical quantities, like the volt and metre, rely on the definition of the second as part of their own definitions. [1]

 

The core of the atomic clock is a tuneable microwave cavity containing the gas. In a hydrogen maser clock the gas emits microwaves (mases) on a hyperfine transition, the field in the cavity oscillates, and the cavity is tuned for maximum microwave amplitude. Alternatively, in a cesium or rubidium clock, the gas absorbs microwaves and the cavity contains an electronic amplifier to make it oscillate. For both types the atoms in the gas are prepared in one electronic state prior to filling them into the cavity. For the second type the electronic state of leaking atoms is detected and the cavity is tuned for a maximum of detected state changes.

 

 

 

Effectively the radioactive element ionises the gas (in this case caesium) this is where electrons in an atom are given energy by gamma radiation and jump to a higher energy state (atoms have energy states or layers where electrons reside, 2 in the first 8 in the next,8 ,18, then 36 i think and so on) once the electron has jumped it can't remain there for long unless it has the energy to jump the atom completley else it falls back to it's original postion. The time it takes to do this is what defines the time in an atomic clock.

 

Unless I've made another mistake that is how I think it happens.

[Dunkan Aidaho]

At least Ive tried...:)

AIM120BvsT90.rar

[Viper101]

now its chat about Plutonium.....now the UN is after you guys hahahhaa

[Groove]

DU is "great" as long as you dont inhale the DU aerosol after the impact of a DU round. This little nasty alpha radiation in your lung is not THAT healty.

 

Some guys which made some "trophy photos" on destroyed iraqi tanks in the 2nd gulf war could tell you something about the radiation of DU.

[EscCtrl]

DU is "great" as long as you dont inhale the DU aerosol after the impact of a DU round. This little nasty alpha radiation in your lung is not THAT healty.

 

Some guys which made some "trophy photos" on destroyed iraqi tanks in the 2nd gulf war could tell you something about the radiation of DU.

 

That'll teach them to go mock their fallen enemies!

[nscode]

Speaking of radiation... few years ago, my faculty's lab was about to test some samples from a local medical institute. The samples were brought to the lab by a currier in a totally unprotected bag. When the GM-counter was turned on, and they saw the level of radiation everyone ran out of the room. Btw, the who guy brought the sample got there by public transport, and even stopped a few times to do some other things he was gonna do that day.

 

 

:|

[hitman]

I grew up near the Dugway Proving grounds, and as you can tell from the avy, I was an FLK. The whole town of Tooele, UT basically stands downwind from the proving grounds near Lehi. Now dont quote me on this but Dugway, being part of the Edgewood Arsenal, has been known to carry every single piece of NBC weapon in the inventory (nuclear material, yes, nuclear weapons, no) and I grew up around this. I have an uncle that developed Gulf War Syndrome during the first gulf war. Then again we all had to deal with that kinda trash around where we are from. He was just an munition supply driver and wasnt exposed to any DU. Go figure.

[Weta43]

The difference between lead & Uranium as far as the 'heavy metal poisoning' part of it goes is that Uranium is much more reactive & therefore oxidises more quickly into compounds that are easily dispersed & absorbed.

It's very dificult to machine & the swarf has a tendency to ignite.

 

The oxides are poisonous, AND carry the alpha particle emitting uranium atoms into the lungs, where, as someone mentioned they kill quite effectively.

That Russian poisoned with polonium in England died as a result of ingesting an alpha emitter. Paper will stop Alpha particles, & so will your DNA.

 

Leaving tons of perpetually highly poisonous, deadly radioactive material lying around a battlefield that will inevitably be some civilian's home at a later date seems pretty dodgy to me.(doesn't the US have test ranges for firing those things in Mexico?)

[nscode]

Not only lungs are at risk by inhalation. It can later find it's way into food and water and be taken that way.

 

But if someone asks, in a war, stress and it's consequences are the biggest silent killer.

[Kuky]

New Mexico, the state not Mexico the country. And IIRC they use the Nellis and Yuma proving grounds for that. Nothing much coming thru Yuma except illegal aliens.

 

hehehe :megalol: wait, wait... do we have legal aliens somewhere? :huh: hehehe... that was funny :smartass:

[Weta43]

New Mexico, the state not Mexico the country.

oops :-)

[Geier]

Nothing difficult:

[NotiA10]

Nothing difficult:

 

hmmm - i hope you dont mean this serious

 

 

ps./ geier if you mean it serious pls send me a pm

[Geier]

hmmm - i hope you dont mean this serious

 

 

ps./ geier if you mean it serious pls send me a pm

 

 

Oh, I didn't count my rounds:P How many of them did I spend?

[NotiA10]

didnt get a pm yet so ok - everything fine

[Geier]

hmmm - i hope you dont mean this serious

 

 

ps./ geier if you mean it serious pls send me a pm

 

 

Noti

How many rounds do you need to kill one tank?

[NotiA10]

Noti

How many rounds do you need to kill one tank?

 

hmmm - that is classified - but .... - are you on hl at all ? send me a msg and we will meet online :thumbup:

 

:pilotfly:

[ericinexile]

A friend and former A-10 pilot gave me a long-since-declasified report that described at length what happens to a shell when it strikes a tank with one sheep secured inside. (You read that right...a sheep). In addition to the poor lamb-chop the tank was fitted with multiple sensors and cameras. Four rounds were fired from the test gun fixed at a distance that I no longer recall. The rounds were fired at whatever rate is used by the Hog. The first round did not penetrate. The three that followed did. In the milisecond that transpired from the first round pentrating and the last round exiting a lifetime (for the sheep) of things happend: First the pressure inside the tank increased as did the temperature--not a little but to a point where the hair of that little lamb would have melted off in less than the blink of his big, round, not-yet-registering-and-never-will eyes. Then, once the third round made it's exit, the pressure and temperature decreased to a point where the lamb chops would soon freeze and be ready for market. The lamb, by the way, was secured in a position so that it would not be in the path of the rounds. When the test was complete the tank obviously had two holes and although I no longer remember their diameter I do remember being surprised that neither was very large. However, there was NO evidence of the lamb having ever been present in the tank other than a little blood and wool around the exit hole.

 

So for all the tank drivers out there you can take some comfort in knowing that the end will be very quick.

 

Smokin' Hole

[GGTharos]

Yeah. That pressure stuff? Not true at /all/. Period, end of story. Got that right from a tanker.

 

As a matter of fact IIRC an APC was hit by a HEAT projectile (and if a HEAT projectile ain't got and doesn't cuase overpressure, I don't know what does) and knocked out everyone in the APC. It didn't -kill- anyone, lucky for them, but the follow up round, had there been one, would have. This was during the whole Kosovo debacle.