Best joystick out there

[VVanks]

OK...in order for me to shell out 250 bucks for a new Cougar...it better be the cats own ass. How well does it perform out of the box? And how long will the thing last? (modless of course)

 

Edit: nvm...I just bought a Cougar on ebay for 170 brand new...supposedly. Thing better fetch me a beer when I tell it too.

 

Nice.

 

I gotta get my computer first,

 

24 inch Dell 1920x1200 res LCD

Core 2 Duo 3ghz

2gig DDR2 800 OCZ

8800GTS

 

So hold on to the X52 for a while. Probably a month or two.

[Kuky]

There are things you can do with CH Control Manager that the Cougar can't even dream of doing.

 

So what can this thing do that Cougar can't... programmability wise?

 

And one advice for you Hitman... if you want to use the Foxy to make your own profile and take it easy... I hope you don't get put off by it as it does seem very complicated. I have to admit After trying out TouchBuddy I was also very confused and didn't have a clue how to make these buttons and such... but once I learned how to make basic stiff I fugure it's actually very easy... and same with Cougar. Mind you, once you start making complicated logical programming you can veeeery easily get completely lost... like lost in space :megalol: Sometimes I could spend a whole day literally, trying to get something to work in logical programming... and I just couldn't... but sometimes I get it working :thumbup:

 

So congratulations on your purchase!

[SuperKungFu]

yea hitman, let me know how the cougar works out. For those who have used it, any problems with it without any mods. I'm thinking about swinging by comp usa one of these days and buy one, if i don't like it, i can always return it within a couple of days.

[Kuky]

...For those who have used it, any problems with it without any mods...

 

Cougar out-of-the-box is still a great stick... but not quite suitable for prop aircraft sim's like IL-2. Flying a modern jet it's another storry.

 

The reason so many are modding it is because of to much wear and tear on the gimbals. Make sure you open the stick base and check you have enough greese on that shaft. If not... clean it up and add some.

 

So out of the box the Cougar is quite heavy on the hand... it has heavy springs and if you like to yank and bank a lot it will be going of the table so make sure you fasten it somehow. But to make it absolutely a dream HOTAS get the IJ's mod... the thing should last for many years (I have mine for some 4-5 years now and it's as good as new.. well with exception of some pealed paint :music_whistling:Interestingly... quite a few people have reported in early batches that sweat from their hands makes the paint peel off quite fast :lol: since I wear gloves I havnt' has such issue... after 4-5 years of using it the paint is holding on very good. The throttle is as new but the stick base I've repainted once maybe 3-4 years ago just to make sure that balck paint stays on..which it did)

[hitman]

Thats good..I havent paid for it yet, but I want to know how accurate the stick is. If I nudge the stick ever so slightly forward, will the nose cant downward? If I fart, will the plane jiggle with the vibrations? Yeah I want it that sensitive...not like thats going to happen.

[SuperKungFu]

Stupid question: How come its not really good from prop sims? I would have thought the stiffness of the stick would be ideal for prop sims since the gun cursor would be accurate.

 

And also, aside from using ropes or whatever to fasten the hotas down, are there any slots under the stick that we can place a suction cups like what the X-52 has?

[hitman]

Im just going to bolt mine down.

[Kuky]

The stick base is just flat with 4 square rubber padds. I screwed mine to my "fying chair" (both Stick and Throttle).

 

I say it's not good for prop aircraft since in sims like IL-2 there is good simulation of tail slide in turn, the shake when shooting, the engine torque... in last patches all this made aiming very hard (ask some people still flying IL-2). In earlier versions on IL-2 aiming was much easier as the aircraft would be lot more steady... and the reason Cougar is not good for such flying is because unlike in fast jets and BVR engagements it's all about dogfight and trying to get on someone's 6. If you boom and zoom it's easier (if you allign for the attack properly) bit if you're trying to gun down a Zero in turning fight... you'll see how anoying it gets to feel that distinct crossing over from one side of the axis to another... it makes a bit of noise as metal hits metal (springs hitting the stopper) and also once you are in transition from - to + (or other way around) pressure on the stick is not gradual. What I mean is no matter how much you pull on the stick (or bank) the pressure is the same... once you're in the middle there is none.. then again you go to another side it's sudden pressure again just in opposite side.

 

So, this actually suits extremely well flight sims like F4 and LockOn (especially F4 since F-16 stick works on pressure) but not sims like IL-2.

 

Once you try it, you'll see what I mean... and I'm sorry I don't know how to explain this better.

[SuperKungFu]

that's cool, it was a good explanation. I'm just trying to save up the money for one because i know if i get a cougar, i also need to get rudder pedals to go along with it. And maybe some money to mod it, so that's about $1000+? Damn, i wished i won that one competition the virtual thunderbirds was hosting so i could get that cougar prize. lol but sadly the world is not in my favor.

[Kuky]

oh and sorry I didn't answer your question... Cougar is very precise. You can expect some spiking after some use because stock Cougar uses normal carbon contact potentiometers...but if you ever mod with HallSensors (yes they are very pricey too) you should never get any spiking.

[LawnDart]

The reason so many are modding it is because of to much wear and tear on the gimbals. Make sure you open the stick base and check you have enough greese on that shaft. If not... clean it up and add some.

 

The reason for me to mod is not due to any deficiencies out of the box, but simply because there are Sierra Hotel mods out there that will turn your little Pinto into a Ferrari! The aftermarket parts for the Cougar make it UNBEATABLE! :v:

 

Although I do agree that the Cougar (modded or stock) needs the same care and attention as your '67 Chevy and as long as it receives it, won't let you down! :thumbup: (Grease 'er up, clean the pots, re-cal the FSSB if you own one, buy shop towels, use compressed air to clean, Q-tips etc etc). Order Cubby's screw kit mod (regardless if you plan on modding anything else), and order spare pots from TM support. The pots are the weakest link, but they can be cleaned quite easily too - although it doesn't hurt to have a a few spare ones. Keep the Allen screws tightened up and re-tighten nuts and bolts periodically. Any time you open the base up, clean and grease it up again. That about sums it up... May sound like a lot, but it's really simple!

 

My personal choice (I love the FSSB R2): Force Sensor Stick Base = Pretty much as close as you can make it to the real Viper! Removes the gimbals, making the stick static or motionless. You fly simply by putting more pressure on the stick shaft, much like the stick in the real F-16 that doesn't move. (The realism was confirmed by a friend who used to be a Viper driver and tested out a setup identical to mine... He's now flying the Nighthawk again, but had a blast zipping around in the virtual skies... He had nothing bad to say about the Kitty or how realistic it felt, although his comments on the F-15 model in LOMAC weren't quite as kind... :music_whistling: :yes:).

 

 

i wished i won that one competition the virtual thunderbirds was hosting so i could get that cougar prize. lol but sadly the world is not in my favor.

 

I'll talk to TM again and see if they are interested in running another promo with price giveaways sometime in the future? It's part of our ammended contract, just gotta come up with an event or venue for it... VFAT, Nellis '07 possibly...?

[SuperKungFu]

that sounds awesome, hopefully we would see that in the future.

[mikoyan]

The reason for me to mod is not due to any deficiencies out of the box, but simply because there are Sierra Hotel mods out there that will turn your little Pinto into a Ferrari! The aftermarket parts for the Cougar make it UNBEATABLE! :v:

 

Although I do agree that the Cougar (modded or stock) needs the same care and attention as your '67 Chevy and as long as it receives it, won't let you down! :thumbup: (Grease 'er up, clean the pots, re-cal the FSSB if you own one, buy shop towels, use compressed air to clean, Q-tips etc etc). Order Cubby's screw kit mod (regardless if you plan on modding anything else), and order spare pots from TM support. The pots are the weakest link, but they can be cleaned quite easily too - although it doesn't hurt to have a a few spare ones. Keep the Allen screws tightened up and re-tighten nuts and bolts periodically. Any time you open the base up, clean and grease it up again. That about sums it up... May sound like a lot, but it's really simple!

 

My personal choice (I love the FSSB R2): Force Sensor Stick Base = Pretty much as close as you can make it to the real Viper! Removes the gimbals, making the stick static or motionless. You fly simply by putting more pressure on the stick shaft, much like the stick in the real F-16 that doesn't move. (The realism was confirmed by a friend who used to be a Viper driver and tested out a setup identical to mine... He's now flying the Nighthawk again, but had a blast zipping around in the virtual skies... He had nothing bad to say about the Kitty or how realistic it felt, although his comments on the F-15 model in LOMAC weren't quite as kind... :music_whistling: :yes:).

 

 

 

 

I'll talk to TM again and see if they are interested in running another promo with price giveaways sometime in the future? It's part of our ammended contract, just gotta come up with an event or venue for it... VFAT, Nellis '07 possibly...?

what did he say about lock-on's f-15 model ?

[LawnDart]

what did he say about lock-on's f-15 model ?

 

Gosh... I don't remember exactly, it wasn't an in depth discussion - but basically, it felt under powered, a little slughish and we didn't even touch most of the other gripes of players (i.e. AIM-120's etc)... What I remember the most was his comment on the lack of acceleration or thrust!

[mikoyan]

thanks for the reply

:thumbup:

[hitman]

Im putting on hold for the cougar because my uh...internet cable provider...didnt listen to a damn word I said on the phone so it cost me $210 for an "alternate" isp and kevin be one pizzed off muhfukkah.

[PoleCat]

Bob Church is working on it. The Vista support for the Cougar (Foxy) is beta. Rest assured that CH will have Vista support. The software took a huge jump ahead of the capabilities of any of the software for any other joystick available. Yes, even the Cougar. There are things you can do with CH Control Manager that the Cougar can't even dream of doing.

 

The Cougar Vista drivers are BETA RC1 but they work just FINE and are better then NOTHING.

 

It is also true that you can do some very complex programming with the CH , is it not true that often to achieve the same advanced function in logical programming you can get more simply with the Cougar on the CH it may require much more verbose programming?

 

What EXACTLY can you do so much more elaborately with your CH that can not be done with a Cougar?

 

Out

[Groove]

Could i get a price for a "pimped out" Cougar ?

 

500 $ ? 700 $ ?

[PoleCat]

Something to think about, there are more CH owners that used to own Cougars than vice-versa.

 

There are also a huge number of Cougar users that looked at a CH first and chose the Cougar instead and never looked back, many (the majority in fact) of them are stock Cougars, it would not be fair to fool yourself or others into thinking otherwise. The stock Cougars that I have experience with are around 2 years well used and do not suffer from any of the problems that just a very few CH users like to recite as serious issues over and over. Almost to the point where you might think if you were to order a Cougar, you would get nothing but a box of unusable scrap metal instead of simply one of the most aesthetically pleasing, ergonomically perfect, all metal, substantial and well designed HOTAS setups out there.

 

My experience with far more stock Cougars then the average person tells me that they work absolutely fine out of the box. Stock.

 

Out

[PoleCat]

For one (if you wanted to) you could do the entire startup sequence for F4 with one key. That's just not possible with Foxy.

 

I believe that statement is incorrect.

 

Let's not forget the guy who created Foxy has been doing all of CH's software for years.

 

Incorrect. It was James Hallows who created the Foxy software. Bob Church (yet another very very smart guy) did the Stickworks software for his TM FLCS/F-22 Pro/TQS Digital chips and as you know of course is the brain behind CH CM software now.

 

Out

[Manawar]

I owned a X52 then upgraded to a THRUSTMASTER COUGAR. If you want 100% cold steel quality and a life like feel, theres nothing on the market that even approaches it. IF you want plastic, poor construction well...then theres the others. Personally i like to purchase something right the first time and not replace a controller 6 months to a year. I cant even look at my X52. Its flimsy to the touch and feels like it could break at anytime. As far as programablity... Theres Nothing I havent been able to achieve... even one button ramp starts. Want to feel what the real pilots feel? Get a COUGAR.

 

Oh did i mention its STEEL!

[PoleCat]

Regardless of all this Rugg, I would still easily choose a stock Cougar. I contend that many others would as well. It is substantial. The CH lacks this to me and in this way is just like any other HOTAS except the Cougar. You can talk about the programming all day and not the feel. You know what the Cougars strong points are but you rather no one focus on that at all. I am sure you are aware that the Cougars advanced programming is also very powerful and can yield some very impressive results. Suffice it to say much more then the average user will ever need or use. The Cougar has CLEAR advantages over the CH or any other HOTAS. IMHO most of the negative comments on it lie some where between exaggeration and out right misrepresentation of the vast majority of Cougars in there original from the factory stock state.

 

I got a good CH question for you.

 

Do you think you ULF, GHOST, and REVVIN can show the world how to fairly compare it to the Cougar? Let me know I would like to see that. I haven't yet.

 

Is this really how CH would want you to get our business?

 

Out

[LawnDart]

...Want to feel what the real pilots feel? Get a COUGAR.

 

Oh did i mention its STEEL!

 

I had a long detailed response written, but then the forums decided to dump my post... :cry:

 

The real Viper stick is not made of metal or steel. It's a complex composite-material ("plastic" in layman's terms), designed to withstand extreme temperatures and moisture. If you ever have the chance to feel the real stick, you'd want one! Trust me, I know I do... :joystick:

 

Could i get a price for a "pimped out" Cougar ?

 

500 $ ? 700 $ ?

 

Cougar @ CompUSA $249.99

FSSB by Realsimulator R1: $430 (320 EUR), R2: $605 (450 EUR)

IJ's switch casings + Cubby's screw kit ~ approx $30

 

Total R1: $709.99, R2: $884.99

 

+shipping

 

If you chosse to use IJ's NXT gimbal mod instead of a Force Sensor mod such as the FSSB, the price with Hall Sensors (by Cubby) comes out to about the same as the R1. :smilewink:

[Viper101]

hahaha, I knew LD would come in with the Thrustmaster Title ;)

[LawnDart]

hahaha, I knew LD would come in with the Thrustmaster Title ;)

 

I don't work for Thrustmaster Viper! In fact they don't like me posting too much around here in regards to the Cougar (sponsor affiliate syndrome), so what you read is entirely my personal opinion.

 

Also, notice how I'm not arguing anyone else's decision either, just providing info. Everyone's entitled to make their own choice, but if I was shopping, I'd want to be well informed of the options available. Simple as that!