[REPORTED]RWR spikes seem to be shared in MP

[Kappa]

33 minuti fa, DD_Fenrir ha scritto:

Some here need to do some research on how radars and RWRs actually work….

 

What do you mean? 

[DD_Fenrir]

4 minutes ago, Kappa said:

 

What do you mean? 

 

1. Side lobe - Wikipedia - this means you don't even have to be within the localised azimuth of an engaged target for your RWR to pick up signals that it could interpret as threat.

 

2. Outgoing radar energy travels far further than you'd expect. A radars output energy has to take the inverse square law into consideration. It's got to push out a signal than will weaken by the power -squared every time the distance doubles, and still have useful signal to noise ratio left for it's receivers to pick-up. You could be twice as far (or even further depending on how sensitive your RWR is) from a threat radar as the target it is engaging is and still pick-up a threat warning.

 

Look at it this way. It's night, and you are being hunted by a man with a flashlight - it may seem like he has the advantage but you can detect his torch beam at far greater range than his light beam can reflect a useful amount of light from you into his eyes.

 

3. To quote Cobra847 of Heatblur:

Quote

A typical RWR is quite good at letting the crew know that there’s a radar emitter. However, it struggles at providing precise information on the distance, elevation, and what is the target of interest for that emitter. Additionally, the calculated direction is usually inaccurate. An RWR doesn’t know if a threat is above or below. It has no way of telling if it observed the main lobe or a side lobe; or what was the threat’s radar power of the emitter. It must assume many factors and combine that into the most accurate yet the most pessimistic (or conservative) picture. It is better to warn about a threat that isn’t there, rather than to let the pilot fly into a deadly trap of an enemy SAM by hiding some weak and ambiguous signals.

 

 

All this means that just because you are not the engaged target doesn't mean that your RWR cannot detect the emissions and identify them as a threat.

 

Some peeps got far too comfortable with the (inaccurate) RWR behaviour from FC3 generation aircraft. The reality is far less clean cut.

[dorianR666]

Yes but as far as i know, radar sidelobes arent simulated in DCS, apart from decreasing your radar's range if youre near ground level (its mentioned in su-27 manual at least, i havent tested it).

 

The bugged RWR lock warnings are random and usually happen to multiple players simultaneously (eg. multiple players spread over the map get lock warning from the same plane at the same time). This is a bug in DCS netcode and has been accepted by ED as a bug. The game simply sends out the lock warning message to wrong clients.

 

Though it would be nice if RWRs in DCS had more realistic limitations.

[DD_Fenrir]

Just now, dorianR666 said:

Yes but as far as i know, radar sidelobes arent simulated in DCS, apart from decreasing your radar's range if youre near ground level (its mentioned in su-27 manual at least, i havent tested it).

 

The bugged RWR lock warnings are random and usually happen to multiple players simultaneously (eg. multiple players spread over the map get lock warning from the same plane at the same time). This is a bug in DCS netcode and has been accepted by ED as a bug. The game simply sends out the lock warning message to wrong clients.

 

Though it would be nice if RWRs in DCS had more realistic limitations.

 

Ok fair enough, this isn't something I've had first hand experience of as our squad tends towards PvE in smaller numbers; if ED have acknowledged your particular issue then I'll stand down, but I suspect some of those jumping on this particular bandwagon would be well versed to heed my response to Kapa before assuming that getting threat warnings from a radar  that is engaging a different aircraft is automatically a bug.

[Kappa]

Well @DD_Fenrir  this is a REPORTED bug so I guess ED recognise it as a bug.

Also radar locks from other players doesn't have de same issue as fa as I know...

[GGTharos]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:03 AM, DD_Fenrir said:

 

Ok fair enough, this isn't something I've had first hand experience of as our squad tends towards PvE in smaller numbers; if ED have acknowledged your particular issue then I'll stand down, but I suspect some of those jumping on this particular bandwagon would be well versed to heed my response to Kapa before assuming that getting threat warnings from a radar  that is engaging a different aircraft is automatically a bug.

 

Sidelobes are fairly weak (-20db) and RWRs aren't that stupid.  They'll have a threshold to trip a lock warning, if you're sitting 100nm away it isn't going to pretend that you're being attacked if you're nowhere near the beam.

 

As for DCS, it simulates none of this (except HB has put some effort into simulating this sort of thing for the F-14).     In DCS, if you're in the radar detection zone of the AI and the AI locks onto anything, you get spiked.  That radar coule be tracking something on the opposite gimbal from you, and you would still be getting spiked.

 

So, RWR warnigs in DCS are not 'shared', they're just not simulated well.

[nighthawk2174]

Especially considering how high gain most TR's are if your not in the main lobe, especially at any kind of long range, it should be like you said below the threshold for being tripped.

[thornx]

Any News?

Yesterday 4 F16 doeing SEAD Mission in the North Caucasus. RWR spikes, missile launches ... "lovely experienced" by all 20 player on our Server. FOR 4 HOURS. There was awful nsfw language born again .

 

"Got a spike" ... "no thats the f16" .. "okay" ... explosion. "#&§%&##&% "
 

We came up with this idea: Record 2h of RWR spikes and dingeling from radar guided SAM missiles. Everyone in the team who thinks this is a low priority problem have to listen to it until the bug gets fixed.

You simply can't play on a Server with a SEAD mission ongoing until you turn off the RWR.

FIX THIS PLEEEEASE!

[Kappa]

This really need to be fixed, please!

[Maverick87Shaka]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:43 PM, Kappa said:

This really need to be fixed, please!

Definitely, not sure why at the beginning in 2018 it was categorized as "low priority", I'm sure ED has their valid motivation even if we can think it different, but after 3 years even a low priority bugs deserve to be addressed!

Runway lights that is for sure more "easy" bug to be smashed, remains stuck for long long time as well.

With the growing interest in the multiplayer missions, server and campaign, this bug need to be squeezed out.

Fly Safe

Edited September 13, 2021 by Maverick87Shaka

[RasendeWildsau]

3 years later...(on 17th of Dec.) @BIGNEWY

Do we want to have a little birthday party for the bug, or will it possibly and completely unexpectedly be fixed before then?

Edited September 18, 2021 by RasendeWildsau

[RasendeWildsau]

@BIGNEWY @Kate Perederko Just a few customers here, waiting for a fix for three years now... nothing special... 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI

[BIGNEWY]

5 minutes ago, RasendeWildsau said:

@BIGNEWY @Kate Perederko Just a few customers here, waiting for a fix for three years now... nothing special... 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI

 

Its not a simple matter, it will require a rework of the current implementation, I dont have a ETA to share with you. 

 

When I have some news to share I will share it.

 

thanks