Cougar HOTAS questions!

[Raised_Dead85]

Does anyone prefer x52 over HOTAS? I should be getting the joystick soon so is there any good profiles that some one knows about? And lastly i want to know how the two compare in realism?

[Ven]

X52 is a HOTAS too. And which "joystick" are you getting soon? X52 or Cougar?

 

I chose X52 Pro over Cougar. Money was no issue but I chose it for comfort as I have pretty small hands. And X52 can be adjusted where as I almost have to stroke the damn Cougar to reach all the buttons.

 

Back when I was racing online, I bought ECCI for $1000 thinking that it'll make me faster. But then I found out that the best drivers were using the old Thrustmaster T1 (not even T2) and regular joysticks. Better equipments might give you better immersion and durability but wont make you better pilot. Whatever you chose is always the best equipment.

[Shaman]

Does anyone prefer x52 over HOTAS? I should be getting the joystick soon so is there any good profiles that some one knows about? And lastly i want to know how the two compare in realism?

 

I do. I've switched from X52 to Cougar and never looked back (sold X52 quickly) :joystick:

[TucksonSonny]

Does anyone prefer x52 over HOTAS? I should be getting the joystick soon so is there any good profiles that some one knows about? And lastly i want to know how the two compare in realism?

 

Thrustmaster Cougar (original/no mods) :thumbup:

[159th_Viper]

If you're a Frequent Flyer - go Cougar :thumbup:

[Skopro_PL]

yeah i got a cougar,and aside from the nice durability of the metal,the stick is a piece of crap if left un-modded,i just found out that i have to redo the antenna pot cause its broken out of the box.IMHO the money that you pay for this thing it should be working out of the box without you having the open it up and make changes,thats just ridiculous,i mean its a good stick for a starting point if you get it cheap,and get one of the mods (that runs around 400$ to 600$) depending on what you want to get,but honestly you shouldn't have to go through all this trouble to get something that should work "out of the box",i got one so i could mod it later on, i prefer my Microsoft Precision 2 over the cougar until i mod it.

[S77th-konkussion]

Does anyone prefer x52 over HOTAS? I should be getting the joystick soon so is there any good profiles that some one knows about? And lastly i want to know how the two compare in realism?

 

Raised D- It would be both a mistake and a shame to not consider the CH line.

[EscCtrl]

CH products are too expensive for the casual simmer such as myself though. It's difficult to warrant $100 for an X45 I bought years ago let alone several hundred for a modded joystick such as a CH product, those things belong in the diggers they were originally made for and not in your homes making me jealous!

 

As for profiles, if you are talking about getting them for the X52 I think Precog made some for it, he made one for the X45 which I use and it works great. Might want to check LockonFiles for it.

[PoleCat]

yeah i got a cougar,and aside from the nice durability of the metal,the stick is a piece of crap if left un-modded,i just found out that i have to redo the antenna pot cause its broken out of the box.IMHO the money that you pay for this thing it should be working out of the box without you having the open it up and make changes,thats just ridiculous,i mean its a good stick for a starting point if you get it cheap,and get one of the mods (that runs around 400$ to 600$) depending on what you want to get,but honestly you shouldn't have to go through all this trouble to get something that should work "out of the box",i got one so i could mod it later on, i prefer my Microsoft Precision 2 over the cougar until i mod it.

 

This is complete nonsense and a gross exaggeration of the truth at best. One guy with a busted antenna knob does not mean that the Cougar is not a fine HOTAS stock. I dare say that the thousands of people who have received their stock Cougars in perfect working condition and have been enjoying them ever since are likely not going to take the time to post a problem that did not exist for them or the gross majority of happy STOCK Cougar owners.

 

The Cougar STOCK is IMHO much better then all the others choices on many levels. Do yourself a favor and try one. If you put your hands on a Cougar it is likely you will not even look at another HOTAS. The truth is with a minimum amount of care and an investment of 0 to 5 dollars you can easily maintain and keep your stock Cougar ticking away nicely for many, many years to come with little to no issues at all. Stock or not all the other sticks out there except the Cougar feel weak and insubstantial in many ways including, materials, force and mass. I have extensive experience with all manner of Cougars, both stock and modded and I have and would take a stock one over any of the other HOTAS out there

 

Should you optionally choose to mod your Cougar then you would have the finest HOTAS barring none. When you discuss an NXT or FSSB, modded Cougar then you are discussing a stick that is in a league by itself. No other stick on the market can even come close. Mentioning any other HOTAS along side of a modded Cougar is simply laughable.

 

IMHO even when trying to fairly compare the stock Cougar and the other stick whose name shall not be mentioned here there are always the exaggerations, misrepresentations, and ululations of a select few which are used over and over (and are probably necessary) in order to cast this remarkable one of kind HOTAS in a shadow dark enough for most to even consider purchasing another HOTAS.

 

The vast majority of stock Cougars work just fine out of the box, and they are all metal, heavy, substantial, very realistic, ergonomic, and aesthetically pleasing . IMHO the others are not.

 

Out

[S77th-konkussion]

CH products are too expensive for the casual simmer such as myself though. It's difficult to warrant $100 for an X45 I bought years ago let alone several hundred for a modded joystick such as a CH product, those things belong in the diggers they were originally made for and not in your homes making me jealous!

 

As for profiles, if you are talking about getting them for the X52 I think Precog made some for it, he made one for the X45 which I use and it works great. Might want to check LockonFiles for it.

 

 

One should note that "several hundreds" is from the perspective of a UK citizen. It is certainly NOT several hundred US dollars to obtain a CH Fighter stick and throttle.

 

I think you'll find an average of about $300 US dollars if you were to buy the Fighterstick, Pro throttle and the pro pedals at once.

[PoleCat]

My stock Cougar sucked compared to my stock CH gear. My X-45 was more reliable than the Cougar.

 

Surprise!:megalol: Did it literally suck things into it like papers on your desk etc? Or is that your technical description of its problems?

 

IMHO when trying to fairly compare the stock Cougar and the other stick whose name shall not be mentioned here there are always the exaggerations, misrepresentations, and ululations of a select few which are used over and over (and are probably necessary) in order to cast this remarkable one of kind HOTAS in a shadow dark enough for most to even consider purchasing another brand.

 

To echo your sentiments in reverse would be to do the same. Instead I will just say I easily prefer the Stock Cougar over the CH for the many reasons I and many others have already stated.

 

Out

[Kuky]

Surprise!:megalol:

 

That was bit of provocation PoleCat... if you guys don't want this kind of thing (to stop unneccessary flame wars) please don't do it yourself.

[PoleCat]

That the "stock Cougar sucks compared to the CH" is not exactly a fair and balanced approach either is it? Yet I see no post from you on that. Why? It is rhetoric. Posted to enflame and mislead while cloaked in the safety of a personal opinion. Am I not also entitled to mine? I do not have to say that the CH sucks even though I and many others would prefer a stock Cougar any day of the week.

To imply that you need to spend hundreds of dollars on the Cougar to have an excellently working stick is simply a lie, plain and simple.

Out

[Ven]

If we're just talking stock, I would never again buy a controller using cheap linear carbon potentiometers. I've messed with them too many times with racing wheels and over the years, replacement cost of those do add up. Perhaps you do wear them out faster on wheels than joysticks but still...

[Ven]

One should note that "several hundreds" is from the perspective of a UK citizen. It is certainly NOT several hundred US dollars to obtain a CH Fighter stick and throttle.

 

I think you'll find an average of about $300 US dollars if you were to buy the Fighterstick, Pro throttle and the pro pedals at once.

 

Checked couple weeks ago and they're $150 US each totaling $450 if you were to buy all 3 new. Or $300 just for the stick and throttle.

[PoleCat]

Partially incorrect. If you buy directly from CH they charge retail. Buy from NewEgg or Provantage and they're $99 each. Heck, at Fry's Electronics I bought my Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals for $99. CH does this on purpose. They don't want you to pay full retail.

 

Polecat, answer the question posted previously: Have you ever owned CH? I've owned both CH and Cougar. Owned.

 

Here's your rhetoric. The airbrake switch broke several days into using the stick. Seems it was installed incorrectly and at the time I was a n00b and didn't realize that a bit of surgery was needed to keep this from happening. Pots wore out more frequently than any stick I've ever used, including Saitek. Three PCB's died from static electricity. I live in Arizona where the air is dry. I have carpet on my floors. That's a recipe for disaster with Cougar PCB's. I have no idea why they don't design the stick differently so that you don't kill the PCB just by touching the stick. I can tell you that after the third one died I jury rigged some rubber "bumpers" to hold the board so that never happened again. The stick was a complete mess inside and everything was assembled with hot glue and tape. It looked like a cluster F inside.

 

Then there was the horrible customer service from Guillemot in receiving my spare parts. 3 months once to get a PCB. I never saw that from CH nor Saitek. Yeah Polecat, the above is "rhetoric" according to you. Or maybe it's the truth coming from a FORMER Cougar owner. Call it what you will. Head over to Frugal's and take a look at how many people are having trouble with brand new Cougars as of late. Seems the gimbals are even more poorly built than in the past. There's a slew of new posts the past few months.

 

Your $800 modded Cougar may indeed be the best stick on the planet. If I'd paid that much money you bet your behind it better be. I'm not fond of the slider throttle on the CH gear, but I'm tickled to death to be able to get a 1-2 knot increase with a sensitive touch on my Pro Throttle when I'm refueling. I never could do that with my Cougar throttle.

 

Like I stated previously, in RF2 I flew an Su25T and ran an F15 out of it's remaining missiles and it's guns. I never could have done that with a Cougar. It just isn't responsive enough. Additionally, I let the CH software program my chaff and flare dispensing duties because I was busy flying at the time. How many logical flags has Foxy? IIRC it's something like 45. CH has 128 per mode. I'm currently using 40+ and I'm not even finished with programming my stick. How many axis can Foxy emulate? CH can do 64 per mode. I could go on and on but anyone who would argue that Foxy's software is superior is in denial. I know the gentleman who created both. Foxy is 10 y/o technology that Mr. Hallows has added on to. CH is constantly being updated to today's standards by the guy who created the software for both joystick companies mentioned in this thread.

 

Yeah Polecat, my Cougar sucked. It was beautiful to look at, that's why I bought it. Too bad it didn't live long enuf and perform as well as it looked. In fact, my right forearm is just getting back to the right size that matches my left after fighting those overly heavy springs in my Cougar. I'll give you this though, I've had my hands on a modded Cougar. It was slick as hell. It's not a much of a Cougar though, it's a different animal underneath the Cougar shell.. Just as a '67 Chevy II Nova with a 502 and a 6 speed manual only resembles my grammies grocery getter on the outside. If you're gonna argue about something make it apples and apples. The Cougar stick when fully modded is a piece of art. The throttle and the software tarnish that art for me though..........

 

Tell the truth Polecat, if someone made you go back to a stock Cougar there's be bodies everywhere wouldn't there? :)

 

Nope. I would take the stock Cougar any day buddy. You know that. Never owned and will never own a CH. Why would I want to own some thing I do not like? I do not think that strengthens your argument. I have used them many times before and had my hands on one AGAIN just last week as you know. It was quite an absolutely unremarkable experience I have to say. The exact opposite of my experience with a stock Cougar which I feel is quite remarkable by comparison. The CH worked and that is all I can say about it. Strangely enough and contrary to most of your well publicized personal horror stories the Cougar also works fine right out of the box, the software is actually quite impressive, and the throttle is simply awesome. You are the one in denial if you think that Foxy software does not offer more then most will ever use in the way of advanced programming. I think you already know this as well. I am sure that your horrible Cougar experience has to be one in a million.

 

 

 

Out

[Kuky]

That the "stock Cougar sucks compared to the CH" is not exactly a fair and balanced approach either is it?

 

That comment I don't find provocative... it's his opinin and it's not aimed at anyone. Your comment was aimmed at Rugg.

[Kuky]

Guys can we please just leave personal stuff out of this and just post our own experiences and issues we have.had with certain products... it's hard enough for people who want to make a decision on what to buy to do that with "this stick is better than yours" thing.

 

I've never ownd CH stuff anf I did TM F-16FLCS and now the Cougar. I wasn't very impressed with stock cougar as I aam picky and I too thought such expensive HOTAS should be built bit better. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Foxy, I think software is really supperb.

 

The only other bas side in the Cougar are the pots... they chose carbon film pots and they wear out. I replaced them in the stick to Hall Sensors and actually even for the throttle I replaced them with my own more expensive pots (I actually had to modify it to fit it).

 

Overall I think if people are perfectionists and they want things really well done (I am one of them) stock Cougar will be bit of disapointment. Moded... it's a dream come true... I have no reservations on this statement at all.

 

The switch misalignment can be fixed really easy but again if someone doesn't want or know how and what to do... switch holder can and probably will get broken... this is very bad engineering on TM stuff and really should have been fixed.

 

It really does come down to personal opinions and tastes and expectations... price is biggest factor for most (I am sure)... but then again good information is very important too. If you expect 100% and get 90% you will say it's crap... and most likely bash the product... If you had good experience you will like it and recomed it.. that's human nature :)

 

Kuky over'n'out :D

[Raised_Dead85]

Wow i dint expect so much posts! And what in the world does modding mean in Cougar? Some of you were talking about its about 600 dollars to mod it... what is that?

 

Oh i am getting the Cougar HOTAS both stick and throttle. I ordered it from amazon for about 200 bucks. My x52 was good but my roommate dont have a stick so i sold it to him for 80 bucks. I like to try alot of new things... I am really bad money spender.

 

I was in Circuit City about a year ago and i saw it for sale for 250 and in the box label it said it is used my USAF training for the simulator so im guessing thats a good thing in to do with realism how many buttons you can have on that stick.

[PoleCat]

I wouldn't place any bets if I were you. The CH forums are full of unhappy Cougar owners who have had the same experiences I have.

 

My point about owning both sticks is that I have intimate knowledge of both. It was to point out that I haven't messed around with someone's Cougar for a few hours and made a decision. I liked the way my Cougar felt. It didn't perform as advertised and neither did Guillemot's customer service crew. Good on you that you'd take the stock Cougar. You'll never have to though will you? There's a huge problem with the ones that are being produced now and customers are complaining even more about the bad gimbals. You can't change that.

 

Rugg, I fully understand your point, I just happen to disagree with it.

The Cougar Forums are also full of people who do not like the CH stuff as well. We just do not spend our time trashing it to the very best of our ability, although we easily could on many levels.

 

You can argue all you want and that is fine by me. But I will not stand by while you overstate and exaggerate every single Cougar issue you can find with out comment. It just isn’t so for most stock Cougar owners buddy, like it or not. I use a stock Cougar sometimes and I would use it any day over a CH. I am sorry if it irritates you but your information about the Cougar no where near reflects the average users experience. I have been recommending them to people and the most recent was purchased just a couple of weeks ago. My friends and customers love their stock Cougars. They do not fall apart in their hands and to them the stock Cougar is every bit what it appears to be, a fine quality perfectly working all metal HOTAS. Bad gimbals huh? Tell that to them.

Out

[LawnDart]

Didn't we just have this argument in another thread a week ago!? I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE PEOPLE... (to quote Will Ferrell)!:megalol:

 

Good to see everyone passionate about their setups though! ...so, I'll throw my two cents into the fire as well: GO KITTY, GO KITTY!!!:joystick: :thumbup:

[Kuky]

Wow i dint expect so much posts! And what in the world does modding mean in Cougar? Some of you were talking about its about 600 dollars to mod it... what is that?

 

Head over to Cougarworld (cougar.frugalsworld.com) and you'll find out anything you want or need to know about Cougar, programming with Foxy, mods... basically everything. It's a long read though but ell the information you'll ever need is there.

[Shaman]

This is complete nonsense and a gross exaggeration of the truth at best. One guy with a busted antenna knob does not mean that the Cougar is not a fine HOTAS stock. I dare say that the thousands of people who have received their stock Cougars in perfect working condition and have been enjoying them ever since are likely not going to take the time to post a problem that did not exist for them or the gross majority of happy STOCK Cougar owners.

 

The Cougar STOCK is IMHO much better then all the others choices on many levels. Do yourself a favor and try one. If you put your hands on a Cougar it is likely you will not even look at another HOTAS. The truth is with a minimum amount of care and an investment of 0 to 5 dollars you can easily maintain and keep your stock Cougar ticking away nicely for many, many years to come with little to no issues at all. Stock or not all the other sticks out there except the Cougar feel weak and insubstantial in many ways including, materials, force and mass. I have extensive experience with all manner of Cougars, both stock and modded and I have and would take a stock one over any of the other HOTAS out there

 

Should you optionally choose to mod your Cougar then you would have the finest HOTAS barring none. When you discuss an NXT or FSSB, modded Cougar then you are discussing a stick that is in a league by itself. No other stick on the market can even come close. Mentioning any other HOTAS along side of a modded Cougar is simply laughable.

 

IMHO even when trying to fairly compare the stock Cougar and the other stick whose name shall not be mentioned here there are always the exaggerations, misrepresentations, and ululations of a select few which are used over and over (and are probably necessary) in order to cast this remarkable one of kind HOTAS in a shadow dark enough for most to even consider purchasing another HOTAS.

 

The vast majority of stock Cougars work just fine out of the box, and they are all metal, heavy, substantial, very realistic, ergonomic, and aesthetically pleasing . IMHO the others are not.

 

Out

 

Just want to say I totally agree with you. I'm one of those very happy customers who received latest version of HOTAS Cougar with all hardware working properly and accurately, with latest software on a CD and latest firmware installed. All I need now is to download Vista drivers from TH site, they are already there, and connect my Cougar to this notebook I'm currently using.

I'm looking forward to get hall-sensors for my Cougar when my stock pots start to wear, but for now it is very accurate

[Kuky]

...I'm one of those very happy customers who received latest version of HOTAS Cougar with all hardware working properly and accurately...

 

Did they fix the Dogfight switch plastic holder missalignment (or was it the Speedbrake switch?)

[Shaman]

Did they fix the Dogfight switch plastic holder missalignment (or was it the Speedbrake switch?)

 

You're talking about the speedbrake. It seems fixed, I have no problems with it. I have my stick since Dec'06.