Operation Constant Peg: Huh???

[rikkles]

Tried instant action op constant peg, Gen 3 fighters. So you're up against a couple of Mig 23s and a Mig 21. That's somewhere around 25 missiles minimum.

 

You're closing in. You switch to sparrows. You try to tell that imbecile Jester to lock SOMETHING in front of you. By then you have at least 2 launches. You jinx and counter. Now you're in heatseeker territory and you get another 3 launches. Jester still smoking a cigar and spotting nicely but hey, let's not use the damn radar, eh? What for?

 

Oh yeah, thanks for the report that "we're hit bad", buddy.

 

Am I missing something?

[DD_Fenrir]

Tactics?

 

Using F-Pole?

 

Disengaging/re-engaging?

 

You're on the wrong side of a 3-1 fight. They ain't gonna sit there and say "shoot me, shoot me!"

 

Tomcat's good but not the all killing overlord of fighter aircraft.

[rikkles]

Well at least I want to fire off a couple of sparrows at the start of the engagement, then break and get a better position. The problem is that I can't figure out how to tell my dear Joker to use the correct radar mode to get a lock.

I assumed he'd do that by default, but I guess not.

 

I tried some of the modes where I say lock target, etc... but no dice. And by then I'm fully engaged and don't have time to breathe.

[OnlyforDCS]

rikkles, you need to turn cold and burn away immediately. At that point tell Jester to switch the radar range to 20 Nm. Once you are at least 15 nm away from the bandits turn back in hot, and tell Jester to STT lock enemy target ahead. Remember you can only lock one bandit at a time with the AIM7, and you won't have the others on your radar once you do.

 

Fire off the Sparrow at around 8 Nm and crank and maneuver until you get the splash, by that time you will be deep in WVR so use your ACM radar modes, either PLA or VSL HI or VSL LO. Jester won't be much help within 10nm.

Edited March 15, 2019 by OnlyforDCS

[Morat]

Jester isn't much use at all. Just use ACM radar modes, trying to outrun a Flogger is pretty futile anyway. You'll die every time but you'll get some Sparrows off.

[jojo]

Within 15Nm you will be better using PAL mode.:smilewink:

 

Don’t freak out if MiG-23 is firing at you in BVR. Jink from left to right to exhaust the missiles.

[TLTeo]

It's honestly not that hard of a mission once you realize how dumb the AI is. Both the R-24 and R-60 that they are armed with have far, far worse performance than your AIM 7 and AIM 9, to the point where you can defeat their first shot just by cranking a little.

 

The Floggers don't seem to attack you together, so while one guy is shooting the other guy is just kind of...doing DCS AI things. I've flown this mission dozens of times to warm up, and never had both Floggers firing on me at the same time.

 

What I found works basically every time is tell Jester to lock target in front of me (not enemy, target, otherwise you have to wait for him to IFF) or use PAL or VSL Lo. Crank away from the Flogger you do not have locked up, fire 1-2 AIM -7s at ~10 nm. The AI sucks so it always takes one to the face and dies. By now the second Flogger has done something dumb and slowed down to the point of not being a threat, so you can just merge with the Fishbed, kill it, and then turn back to the last Flogger. If you don't manage to kill the Fishbed, extend and turn back around, while looking for any possible launch from the Flogger which by now has probably regained some energy. If the second Flogger does turn out to be a threat, crank his shots, then go to the merge; this will give you more time to take care of the Fishbed before he second Flogger is a threat again.

 

I hope that makes sense. I've attached a track that shows this.

Tacview-20191108-212206-DCS-F-14B_IA_NTTR_Constant_Peg_GenIII.zip.rar

[captain_dalan]

Within 15Nm you will be better using PAL mode.:smilewink:

 

Don’t freak out if MiG-23 is firing at you in BVR. Jink from left to right to exhaust the missiles.

 

It's honestly not that hard of a mission once you realize how dumb the AI is. Both the R-24 and R-60 that they are armed with have far, far worse performance than your AIM 7 and AIM 9, to the point where you can defeat their first shot just by cranking a little.

 

The Floggers don't seem to attack you together, so while one guy is shooting the other guy is just kind of...doing DCS AI things. I've flown this mission dozens of times to warm up, and never had both Floggers firing on me at the same time.

 

What I found works basically every time is tell Jester to lock target in front of me (not enemy, target, otherwise you have to wait for him to IFF) or use PAL or VSL Lo. Crank away from the Flogger you do not have locked up, fire 1-2 AIM -7s at ~10 nm. The AI sucks so it always takes one to the face and dies. By now the second Flogger has done something dumb and slowed down to the point of not being a threat, so you can just merge with the Fishbed, kill it, and then turn back to the last Flogger. If you don't manage to kill the Fishbed, extend and turn back around, while looking for any possible launch from the Flogger which by now has probably regained some energy. If the second Flogger does turn out to be a threat, crank his shots, then go to the merge; this will give you more time to take care of the Fishbed before he second Flogger is a threat again.

 

I hope that makes sense. I've attached a track that shows this.

 

 

What these guys are saying:thumbup:

 

I too noticed that a well pumped AIM-7 shot will either kill the first 23 (8 times out of 10) as long you maintain the lock (acquired in PAL) all the way through your crank, or get him so defensive that a follow up AIM-7 or AIM-9 always gets him. Then you face shot the 21, which is BTW almost always going to be the next in line of sight as you turn into the bandits from your left crank. After that, you are in a turning fight with a Flogger. Not likely to lose that one, unless you get really carried away and forget to evade a potential missile shot. These would usually be radar guided, which means you still have amble of warning. BTW, Jester (God bless him) will warn you of any heaters too! :thumbup:

[IronMike]

Jester isn't an imbecile lol, no RIO is very effective below 15 nm. This is why you have PAL, VSL and PLM. Also some tactics would help, like snaking, shaking and baking. Here is an example of how to:

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I might also add that it is very easy to blame Jester, if one does not understand the AWG-9, the general limitations of a RIO and also the particular limitations of JESTER properly. Very often I see ppl complaining about Jester not doing what they want, but for example simply giving wrong commands (lock bandit ahead, when no bandit is designated on the TID, so lock target ahead would be appropriate, cause Jester doesnt know it is a bandit yet, or trying to tell him to STT lock a high maneuvering target at 10nm which will be out of the radar cone within a split second and so on.) Secondly, a lack of Situational Awareness is an additional reason for failure in many situations. If you SA is impeccable, then the calls from Jester are very helpful, because it doesnt take you long to filter out those that increase your SA, or those that might add to confusion if your SA is poor in the first place. Thirdly a lack of tactical knowledge and "wanting too much too early" also leads to failure, for example not knowing how to crank, to beam, to notch, to snake, and most importantly when to do it and when not to do it. All that combined makes it easy to go "Jester the idiot didnt help me!" He is a complementary to the basics you need to get peeled out first, only relying on him, ofc will not help a lot. That said, I personally can do almost anything with him I need, on the server or offline alike, because I know what I can expect from him and what not and where to fill in the gaps. Understanding the AWG9, the limits of RIO and Jester, is crucial for that.

Edited February 2, 2020 by IronMike

[jojo]

I would say we are a little bit short on official documentation about Jester.

 

For instance, I don’t know if Jester is moving scan zone elevation up and down to scan the airspace.

Jester commands to scan low/ middle low doesn’t tell me how much it’s moving, and if there are gaps ?

Does it take into account scan lines number ?

 

I would like to know what Jester is doing with the radar...

[draconus]

I would like to know what Jester is doing with the radar...

 

He does not scan at all. You can tell him where to point the radar.

[jojo]

He does not scan at all. You can tell him where to point the radar.

 

So he is a little bit passive then :music_whistling:

[draconus]

So he is a little bit passive then :music_whistling:

 

My answer was only about his scanning on elevation and azimuth. He does a lot on himself, ie. IFF and target markings, radar modes, etc.

[jojo]

My answer was only about his scanning on elevation and azimuth. He does a lot on himself, ie. IFF and target markings, radar modes, etc.

 

Yep, but I would expect him to scan up/ down to sanitize the air space in front of the Tomcat

From pilot cockpit, scan up/ low Jester command doesn’t tell me much about how high or low he is scanning.

[IronMike]

Yep, but I would expect him to scan up/ down to sanitize the air space in front of the Tomcat

From pilot cockpit, scan up/ low Jester command doesn’t tell me much about how high or low he is scanning.

 

 

We said often that whether or not we will implement active scanning for Jester, we will see only after TWS Auto has been finished, as this will show where to fill the gaps.

 

Don't use the high med low scan submenus for now, their angles are too steep, use the elevation for distance submenus instead.

 

When it comes to sanitizing the sky, Jester is completely passive for now. He will only look at where you tell him to. This is of course a limitation contrary to a human RIO.

[draconus]

From pilot cockpit, scan up/ low Jester command doesn’t tell me much about how high or low he is scanning.

Again, there's no scan command, just radar elevation set. FYI: you know what elevation Jester sets for commands Med Low or Low - look at TID. They were -16 and -40 degrees afair.

[jojo]

We said often that whether or not we will implement active scanning for Jester, we will see only after TWS Auto has been finished, as this will show where to fill the gaps.

 

Don't use the high med low scan submenus for now, their angles are too steep, use the elevation for distance submenus instead.

 

When it comes to sanitizing the sky, Jester is completely passive for now. He will only look at where you tell him to. This is of course a limitation contrary to a human RIO.

 

Ok thanks. Both are much needed improvements :thumbup: