BlackShark and laser designation

[Zacho]

Can the BlackShark designate targets for Semi-Active Laser Homing like Kh-25L and Kh-29L missiles?

[GGTharos]

I don't know - though I do know that neither of these weapons are cleared for carriage on the operational Ka-50 - well, last I heard anyway.

[Weta43]

until the missile enters the cloud of smoke and can't see the beam anymore.

Yes, but that's probably - what 10m - 20m from the targeted point?

 

From this discussion it seems to me that there are 4 (?) laser beams in the Su-25T & 2 on 25?

1 for the rangefinder, low power, no runtime limit.

1 for target illumination (for Kh-25L etc). This one being high power & having an 11 sec runtime.

2 (one for each of X & Y axis, maybe one laser with optics) low power guiding laser for the beam riding Vihkr.

 

So - when using the Vihkr there shouldn't be an 11 sec runtime (is there one in the Ka-50? BS) but this should be there for all other laser guided weapons.

 

I don't know - though I do know that neither of these weapons are cleared for carriage on the operational Ka-50 - well, last I heard anyway.

 

This may also be why the Ka-50 doesn't carry Kh-25L etc - no 'illumination' radar as standard fitout ?

[Alfa]

Bien dicho gallego!! :D

 

But I think the LWR are more effective with narrow beam, not with wide beam laser. A wide beam laser is more difficult to differenciate from a point light source (a lamp, for example). So, I think the wide beam is the key, and for that, the Beam riding missile are difficult to spot with LWR. However, a wide beam gives less precision and less range, so you should ajust this for correct performance.

 

Regards

 

Actually it is the opposite - laser beam riders usually provide better range because they aren't looking for target reflected energy ahead, but looking back for the laser energy emitted by the launching aircraft.

 

Anyway, one key thing to keep in mind with the discussion of laser beam riders vs. semi-active laser homers - the Vikhr is designed for attacking moving targets(tanks and armour) ;) .

[Esac_mirmidon]

Well, if you are moving you cant hide behind a fog cloud XDD

[Prophet]

This is the same prinicple the TOW uses, just different sensors. And for the same reasons.

[Weta43]

Just noticed - 31 views, 30 replies (& I looked once without posting)

Not a bad participation level for a thread!

[rogue_blade]

does the ka50 have LOAL and LOBL missiles??

[TekaTeka]

Just noticed - 31 views, 30 replies (& I looked once without posting)

Not a bad participation level for a thread!

 

Looks like ALL threads have +1 views against # of replies.:doh:

[zaelu]

Unfortunately, it is even more complicated. :)

 

The system actually has two laser beams that scan horizontally and vertically to form the "cone" in which the missile flies. The missile is designed to extrapolate its position within the cone based on a standard cone size (7 meters in radius or diameter IIRC :dunno:). So the system actually narrows the emission angle as the missile travels out, to keep the cone size around the missile at a constant size.

 

This means that when we in SU-25T manage to launch 2 or even 3 ViKh missiles towards a group and guide them to individual targets by moving the targeting system quickly to the next target imidiately after first missile has hit the target is not so acurate. The second missile and the third will have a narrower laser cone to ride so they would have bigger chances to lose the guiding beam isn't it?

[EvilBivol-1]

In general, yes. There are more details, but I'm afraid I may be out of place discussing them at this point. I apologize and hope you understand, but I'll have to draw the "NDA" line here for now and ask you to wait until more info is available officially.

[amalahama]

EvilBivol-1

 

It's really interesting that. Do you have some links to pages which explain how this guide works with some detail?

 

Regards

[504smudge]

extract from wiki

 

The aircraft carries a substantial load of weapons in four external hardpoints under the stub wings plus two on the wingtips, a total of some 2,300 kg depending on the mix.

The main armament are the twelve laser-guided Vikhr anti-tank missiles with a maximum range of some 10 km. The laser guidance is reported to be virtually jam-proof and the system features automatic guidance to target enabling evasive movement immediately after missile launch. The fire control system automatically shares all target information among the four Black Sharks of a typical flight in real time, allowing one helicopter to engage a target spotted by another, and the system also can input target information from ground-based forward scouts with man-portable target designation gear. The integrated 30mm cannon is semi-rigidly fixed on the helicopter's side, movable only slightly in elevation and azimuth. The aircraft's agility allows the weapon control system to turn (the entire helicopter and) the cannon at the target acquired in the pilot's helmet sight about as fast as the cannon turret of the Apache or the Mil-28 turns. The semi-rigid mounting improves the cannon's accuracy, giving the 30mm a longer practical range and better hit ratio at medium ranges than with a free-turning turret mount.

 

'The fire control system automatically shares all target information among the four Black Sharks of a typical flight in real time, allowing one helicopter to engage a target spotted by another, and the system also can input target information from ground-based forward scouts with man-portable target designation gear'

[EvilBivol-1]

Wiki is inaccurate.

 

Amalahama, that's the problem - I don't have any public links which describe the system in detail. Almost everything I know about the Ka-50 comes from ED's work on the model, so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to share the info at this point, considering the game is still in beta.