BFM vs. AI feasible?

[Nealius]

We all know the DCS AI are cheaters with their energy management, but as I'm not really available for much online play I like to try BFM with the AI. Problem is I can't kill them in the Tomcat. I can stay on their tail for the majority of the fight, but to do so I'm pegging the AoA at 15 units with full AB. To rate the nose for a kill I need 20-25 units, at which point I've lost 150kts in an instant, succumb to dutch roll, or both. Then I have to unload, full burner, nose down attitude, struggling to get back up to 300kts. Meanwhile Mr. AI Eagle or Mr. AI Tiger is doing loop after loop after loop, stopping in mid-air and spinning his nose 180 degrees back on me if I take too long to accelerate and reposition.

 

With such restricted AoA and instantaneous hemorrhaging of airspeed, how do you move from on the bandit's 6 to getting a gun solution?

[razo+r]

Have you tried dragging the AI low? They usually like to kiss the ground.

[Nealius]

I get fairly low into a scissors situation and get some very close snapshots, but I can never pull that extra couple units alpha to fine-tune my pipper to actually hit him. The F-5 on occasion has lawn-darted, but the Eagle rarely does.

 

Update:

 

Up until now I was doing BFM with about 11,000lbs of fuel. I decided to try 8,000lbs and it made a much bigger difference than I thought it would. I ran two sessions and hit the Eagle both times. The first time was extremely odd, though: I completely shredded his left engine, and yet this bugger continued fighting me. With flames and black smoke bellowing out of his tail. In the vertical. Something tells me an Eagle shouldn't be capable of fighting in the vertical with only one good engine....

Edited April 6, 2019 by Nealius

[VC]

You can bean the AI Su-27 in the "dogfight" instant action mission in a single loop. F-5s take a few but are basically sitting ducks because you have so much more power than they do. The key here is to use the F-14 almost purely in the vertical, AB only on the way up, throttle back on the way down. Practice some loops starting at about 400 knots, get them really smooth and tight with constant AoA and minimal speed loss. Eagles have more power than you but you turn better, so flip tactics here and practice tight consistent turning at ~300 knots.

[lunaticfringe]

Eagles have more power than you

 

Only with abbreviated AI FMs that don't honor the Ps charts below 25k.

[captain_dalan]

We all know the DCS AI are cheaters with their energy management, but as I'm not really available for much online play I like to try BFM with the AI. Problem is I can't kill them in the Tomcat. I can stay on their tail for the majority of the fight, but to do so I'm pegging the AoA at 15 units with full AB. To rate the nose for a kill I need 20-25 units, at which point I've lost 150kts in an instant, succumb to dutch roll, or both. Then I have to unload, full burner, nose down attitude, struggling to get back up to 300kts. Meanwhile Mr. AI Eagle or Mr. AI Tiger is doing loop after loop after loop, stopping in mid-air and spinning his nose 180 degrees back on me if I take too long to accelerate and reposition.

 

With such restricted AoA and instantaneous hemorrhaging of airspeed, how do you move from on the bandit's 6 to getting a gun solution?

 

As always, it's about the energy management. The AI is cheating, but that doesn't mean it's invulnerable. Some planes are harder then others to beat this way though. Here's a few VS AI fight i've had since the F-14 is out:

 

 

 

In reverse order. Some fights are more successful, but then again i'm still learning how to read her properly. And is it me, or have the later patches change the way she handles a bit? I hadn't touched her in two weeks you see, and she feels a bit different. :thumbup:

 

Safe flying and clear skies!

 

EDIT: something changed about the way we post Youtube videos as well? I thought we were only supposed to past the part of the link after the "v=", right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT 2. Never mind, it was a browser thing. Posted in chronological order. :thumbup:

 

I completely shredded his left engine, and yet this bugger continued fighting me. With flames and black smoke bellowing out of his tail. In the vertical. Something tells me an Eagle shouldn't be capable of fighting in the vertical with only one good engine....

 

Man, i fought a Mirage with one wing, and the thing capt climbing and turning until it ran out of gas :music_whistling::megalol:

Edited April 6, 2019 by captain_dalan

[Nealius]

I haven't been able to patch up yet (internet issues) so I'm still on the first iteration's FM. I did manage this decent fight against an F-15: Tacview file

 

The only way I can do any damage is to force a rolling scissors and go for a snapshot.

[VampireNZ]

The SU-27 Instant Action is a bit of a cakewalk, good one to start with - 90 seconds from the merge to dead, Tacview attached.

Pretty much goes the same way most times. I would have been happier with the 70 second killshot but that was early days and was still getting used to the gun reticle.

 

There is a post here wondering why the Tomcat doesn't accelerate very well down hill - here I was coming down on him at 4-5g and still accelerating like a beast. This aircraft is lots of fun.

My advice regarding ' instantaneous hemorrhaging of airspeed' would be don't just crank it into the turns with too much stick, those are some big air-brakes out the back if you use them to much.

F-14 vs SU-27.rar

Edited April 7, 2019 by VampireNZ

[Nealius]

I wonder if the acceleration was tweaked recently. As I'm still on the initial FM version, I too have a tough time accelerating nose-down unloaded like the other poster, but that doesn't seem to match what everyone else is experiencing.

[*Aquila*]

My advice regarding ' instantaneous hemorrhaging of airspeed' would be don't just crank it into the turns with too much stick, those are some big air-brakes out the back if you use them to much.

This was a huge peace of a problem with the release FM. The wings didn’t sweep past 5G. You had to merge at less than Mach 0.8 for the wings not to be fully swept, and start your turn smoothly or the F-14 behaved like a delta, losing all airspeed in the turn and flying like a dustcart after a few seconds. Now, the wings continue to sweep past 5g and a MiG 28’s life has become a full size nightmare.

 

OP : update ASAP and you’ll enjoy the cat !

[Tomsk]

Generally my preferred technique for defeating the AI (and humans) is scissors. Scissors rely more on good timing and reading of the position than raw power or turn rate. You can often beat significantly superior planes in scissors, including the cheating AI. Takes a fair amount of practice to get good at, and you do need to be able to fly the plane on the edge, but when you get it the AI fall easily.

[Top Jockey]

Generally my preferred technique for defeating the AI (and humans) is scissors. Scissors rely more on good timing and reading of the position than raw power or turn rate. You can often beat significantly superior planes in scissors, including the cheating AI. Takes a fair amount of practice to get good at, and you do need to be able to fly the plane on the edge, but when you get it the AI fall easily.

 

Very true.

 

One of the many perks I enjoy in DCS really is the perceptible differences at the various aircraft own flight models.

 

For example, when doing the scissors with the MiG-29 it really is somewhat tolerant to very low speeds until stalling... now with the F-14, if one pushes it, there will be a departure soon.

[captain_dalan]

I wonder if the acceleration was tweaked recently. As I'm still on the initial FM version, I too have a tough time accelerating nose-down unloaded like the other poster, but that doesn't seem to match what everyone else is experiencing.

 

I never had issues with acceleration in the dive, not in the first fights not in this latest one. Though, i did patch only once, this last Friday. Maybe i just didn't test it enough. But i do disengage burners when pulling over the top of the egg.