Accuracy of GBU-12

[Wizard1393]

So I've been using the GBU-12's quite alot and I've noticed that when dropping them on a lased fast moving target they always fall behind.

 

Often say the first vehicle in a moving column is lased, the bomb will hit spot on the second vehicle.

 

IIRC the GBU's managed to hit lased moving targets pretty much flawlessly back in the day with the A-10C.

 

Did they change the behavior of the GBU's? Anyone else getting these inaccuracies?

[DeathAngel1]

LGBs and JDAMs will be inaccurate until we get TGP. That's why I don't use it anymore...

[gekoiq]

LGBs and JDAMs will be inaccurate until we get TGP. That's why I don't use it anymore...

 

This is flat out false. Both are plenty accurate if you give them good data.

 

This means for LGBs: you need a JTAC either Human in CA or added in the ME to lase for you, they are extremely accurate. Against a fast moving target the bomb might not have enough energy to hit the target if it is moving away from you or moving at a high LOS to the bomb.

 

JDAMs: are extremely accurate if targeted on a waypoint in TOO mode, and in PB mode as well if the target is at the beginning of the second of the Lat/Long. ie: if the target is at xx*yy'zz.00", a good way to place targets in the ME is to put them at the lat/long as it ticks up to the next number. Put the target right where it goes from xx*yy'12" -> xx*yy'13" for instance and then use xx*yy'13" for your coords.

[DeathAngel1]

This is flat out false. Both are plenty accurate if you give them good data.

 

This means for LGBs: you need a JTAC either Human in CA or added in the ME to lase for you, they are extremely accurate. Against a fast moving target the bomb might not have enough energy to hit the target if it is moving away from you or moving at a high LOS to the bomb.

 

JDAMs: are extremely accurate if targeted on a waypoint in TOO mode, and in PB mode as well if the target is at the beginning of the second of the Lat/Long. ie: if the target is at xx*yy'zz.00", a good way to place targets in the ME is to put them at the lat/long as it ticks up to the next number. Put the target right where it goes from xx*yy'12" -> xx*yy'13" for instance and then use xx*yy'13" for your coords.

 

Dont teach me please, I know how to use both of them pretty well. All that I want to say is that guided bombs will be way more accurate and effective when we can use TPOD.

[gekoiq]

They will not be more accurate, that is false, they hit very accurately to the laser-spot or coords they are given, the only limitation right now is not being able to self-lase and not being able to input precision coordinates.

 

The TPOD is not used for every single JDAM/LGB drop IRL either, it's not a requirement for precision weapon employment, it's merely a useful tool for ID'ing a target and self-designation.

[A2597]

OK, I was under the impression that GBU-12s were broken in the current beta?

(Laser mavericks see the laser and work perfectly, switch to GBU 12 with same code, and it's permanently Xed out and can't fire).

 

 

Am I missing something? Or are you guys on stable branch?

[A2597]

How will tpod affect accuracy of a bomb? Nonsense.

 

 

 

Make sure it has correct code, mfuze - off, efuze - inst.

 

 

Aha! mfuzing was the issue. I honestly thought they were just broken, spent ages trying to get these to work, somehow missed that despite multiple videos and several attempts!

Thank you sir!

[DeathAngel1]

=4c=Nikola?

How? Really?

 

First of all, with TGP I will be able to see the target and to lase and designate by myself.

....

So?

Edited April 11, 2019 by DeathAngel1

[bfr]

=4c=Nikola?

How? Really?

 

First of all, with TGP I will be able to see the target and to lase and designate by myself.

....

So?

 

Which assumes the only fault can be with your buddy-lase/JTAC. I haven't found JTAC to be particularly unreliable, nor have I found self-lasing with a TPOD (I also own the Harrier) to be infallible.

[A2597]

=4c=Nikola?

How? Really?

 

First of all, with TGP I will be able to see the target and to lase and designate by myself.

....

So?

 

 

It won't change accuracy, the bomb/missile is just chasing that little red dot. It will just change the ease of employing the weapons, and not having something/one else to blame if they miss. :)

[GazAce]

JTAC on my Radio menu

 

How will tpod affect accuracy of a bomb? Nonsense.

 

 

 

Make sure it has correct code, mfuze - off, efuze - inst.

 

Hey I can't even get JTAC up on my radio menu, tried so many diff units but they don't pop up. I know I'm missing something? Any help much appreciated.

G

:huh:

[609_Relentov]

So I've been using the GBU-12's quite alot and I've noticed that when dropping them on a lased fast moving target they always fall behind.

 

Often say the first vehicle in a moving column is lased, the bomb will hit spot on the second vehicle.

 

IIRC the GBU's managed to hit lased moving targets pretty much flawlessly back in the day with the A-10C.

 

Did they change the behavior of the GBU's? Anyone else getting these inaccuracies?

 

I’ve been having the same difficulties with AI JTAC lately. They are accurate with stationary targets, once they lase I have no issues hitting the targets. However, moving targets it’s another story. I can tell the AI JTAC (using a TOW equipped HMMWV usually, on weapons hold ROE) is lasing, as I can see the GBU-12 adjusting its flight path.. but in all cases with moving targets the bomb hits behind the moving units (unless it’s a long column on a straight road, then you might get lucky and hit one). It’s almost like at some point the AI JTACs were changed to area track and don’t continue tracking the moving vehicles. I recall it used to work for moving targets.

[GazAce]

We are drifting offtopic a bit, but to try to answer: The problem can be you're using wrong radio channel, or that jtac is setup incorrectly.

 

Troubleshoot radio channel first. Make sure you know jtac freq, enter it in the radio (1 or 2) and then use radio button for that radio (1 or 2) to contact it.

 

If no luck, then try to troubleshoot mission. You can watch yt video tutorials how to set up jtac.

 

Thanks, I appreciate your input and sorry to butt in back there but I'm pretty good with setting up JTAC and Radio usage/freq and stuff. I believe the problem is the location I'm flying in, well that's my guess anyway. It's a new location that was added in yesterdays Update.. BAM City. I posed the same question within a thread more applicable to this topic and someone mentioned they were having dramas with JTAC freq at different locations. Anyway, I''l keep tinkering and set up same conds in another map. Thanks again.

[GazAce]

Hey successs! I found this setting worked in the same Map, I think was the Laser I was applying in Designation instead of Auto. I'm not entirely sure but I know this works. JTAC was in Radio menu this time and there was an option for Laser during Nine Line.

Thanks again for your input.

Gaz

[Wizard1393]

I’ve been having the same difficulties with AI JTAC lately. They are accurate with stationary targets, once they lase I have no issues hitting the targets. However, moving targets it’s another story. I can tell the AI JTAC (using a TOW equipped HMMWV usually, on weapons hold ROE) is lasing, as I can see the GBU-12 adjusting its flight path.. but in all cases with moving targets the bomb hits behind the moving units (unless it’s a long column on a straight road, then you might get lucky and hit one). It’s almost like at some point the AI JTACs were changed to area track and don’t continue tracking the moving vehicles. I recall it used to work for moving targets.

 

Thank you. Finally one answer I was looking for. I know there's not a "bomb energy"-problem as someone said. I've tried everything. Slow and fast, high and low, from all directions. Also no wind. With the same result. GBU-12 won't hit a "fast" moving ground target. Please can anyone else also test and confirm? Set a ground unit, a truck or whatever, to move at 70kmh or whatever their max speed is. Have a JTAC or Lase of choice lase the truck for you. Drop the GBU. Report back.

 

I wonder if this applies only to MP. As in the Laser "lags" a bit and thats the problem perhaps. Must test this in SP....

[StormBat]

JDAM Works pretty good without TGP

 

 

 

 

Just takes a little practice mate. Cheers.

[EcceHomo]

GBU-12 is a general term, it has a variety of models, and the game is the existence of second-generation LGB. It is a relay mode (bang. bang. bang), which can not track fast targets very well. So there is a third generation of LGB like GBU-24. DCS does not attach importance to advanced LGB, it seems that it is difficult to achieve. In the 21st century, only GBU-24B/B, not GBU-24E/B, is still the only F-18C.

Don't worry about that, because GBU-12 is really old.

[Terry T.]

This got a little off track.

 

The other issue is using a 10-series bomb on a moving target. This is difficult because the bomb would have to lead the target much like an A2A missile does. We have the GBU-54 to do this. It's a dual mode weapon that can use a laser like a 10-series but uses the lasers rate of movement and GPS to calculate an impact point out in front of the target. This way the weapon will not lose energy by constantly trying to catch up with the target.

[Ignition]

GBU-12 is a general term, it has a variety of models, and the game is the existence of second-generation LGB. It is a relay mode (bang. bang. bang), which can not track fast targets very well. So there is a third generation of LGB like GBU-24. DCS does not attach importance to advanced LGB, it seems that it is difficult to achieve. In the 21st century, only GBU-24B/B, not GBU-24E/B, is still the only F-18C.

Don't worry about that, because GBU-12 is really old.

 

 

The GBU-12 is a 500lb bomb with Paveway II

The GBU-24 is a 2000lb bomb with Paveway III

[Ignition]

So I've been using the GBU-12's quite alot and I've noticed that when dropping them on a lased fast moving target they always fall behind.

 

Often say the first vehicle in a moving column is lased, the bomb will hit spot on the second vehicle.

 

IIRC the GBU's managed to hit lased moving targets pretty much flawlessly back in the day with the A-10C.

 

Did they change the behavior of the GBU's? Anyone else getting these inaccuracies?

 

 

I didn't try them yet. Did you drop them perpendicular to the target or in front or from the back? If the target didn't move very fast they sould have a good accuracy. The wind needs to be considered.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Ignition

[Wizard1393]

I didn't try them yet. Did you drop them perpendicular to the target or in front or from the back? If the target didn't move very fast they sould have a good accuracy. The wind needs to be considered.

 

As the title stated, fast moving ground targets. As my second post stated, tried from all directions, perp/front/back, high/low alt, high/low speed, all tests 0 wind.

 

Peoples explanations/posts in this thread about GBU-12 performance seem reasonable, but,

my gripe with this would be that I seem to remember the GBU-12's having no issues like this back in the day with the A-10C.