Where to keep FPM during landing

[IceFire]

I see the ball just fine in a rift :)

[Strikeeagle345]

I see the ball just fine in a rift :)

 

Well you are OP and need to be nerfed.

 

Also, you probably set it up correctly. :D

[stuart666]

I wear glasses, which doesnt help any.

[shagrat]

Or, have an Odyssey+ and you can see the ball just fine

Well, I can't see the ball on my 2D screen, unless I massively zoom in, or am so close it doesn't matter...

So now I zoom in, which is bad for any peripheral vision.

That mod is highly appreciated!

[Strikeeagle345]

Well, I can't see the ball on my 2D screen, unless I massively zoom in, or am so close it doesn't matter...

So now I zoom in, which is bad for any peripheral vision.

That mod is highly appreciated!

 

Yeah, I have heard that from the 4K guys.

[shagrat]

Yeah, I have heard that from the 4K guys.

Not much difference in 1080p either... Need to try the mod, but a more visible Ball / IFLOLS will help a lot. Just a larger light halo around the lamp...

[Strikeeagle345]

Not much difference in 1080p either... Need to try the mod, but a more visible Ball / IFLOLS will help a lot. Just a larger light halo around the lamp...

 

I can see it no problem at 1080p (no mod, all default) :huh:

 

maybe its a person to person thing

[VampireNZ]

Or, have an Odyssey+ and you can see the ball just fine :thumbup:

 

 

Tried one and I agree, much better visuals! :thumbup:.

 

Didn't like the fit and a few other issues - so going to wait to check out the Rift S, Reverb, Index etc and see whats what. But def upgrading the CV1 for better clarity thou!

[The AMRAAMer]

So is trimming the HUD standard procedure for landings?

[Victory205]

Turn it off.

[Wrench]

AMRAAMer, IIRC the carrier glideslope is -3.5°, so adjust accordingly.

Feel free to google-check that number.

[shagrat]

So is trimming the HUD standard procedure for landings?

"Ye shall not use thou pitch ladder for landings!" the HUD cannot be trusted to be accurate.

If everything is perfect the FPM should be some additional help, but when in doubt trust your instruments, not the HUD.

 

EDIT to answer the question: It is standard procedure to mostly ignore the HUD and use the precision flight instruments and eyesight.

Edited April 17, 2019 by shagrat

[shagrat]

I can see it no problem at 1080p (no mod, all default) :huh:

 

 

 

maybe its a person to person thing

Can see vs. would love to see it a bit earlier and without zooming in.

My eyesight isn't what it used to be either. ;)

[Larkis]

So is trimming the HUD standard procedure for landings?

 

Trimming HUD is something you could a few times when in Flight. :smilewink:

 

On Landing i try to look only on the height and sink-rate Parameters of the HUD. Also i always activate ICLS to get a smooth transit from groove to glideslope.

 

That helps on flying the pattern and be on the right height on the right position. When on final i look on the ball.

 

Also i want suggest using Autothrottle. I need some time toget used to the change how the planeis flying. But when done you dont need to worry about OnSpeed and you could concentrate on the landing pattern. Feels more like an F18, except that you ignores the throttle and not the pitch.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Larkis

[Chuck_Henry]

"Ye shall not use thou pitch ladder for landings!" the HUD cannot be trusted to be accurate.

If everything is perfect the FPM should be some additional help, but when in doubt trust your instruments, not the HUD.

 

EDIT to answer the question: It is standard procedure to mostly ignore the HUD and use the precision flight instruments and eyesight.

 

At the risk of really getting into the weeds - is it standard procedure, or widely-accepted technique? I haven't scoured the F-14's NATOPS as much as the F/A-18's, but I definitely don't remember it saying anywhere that the pilot shall only utilize the analog instruments for landing and disregard the HUD.

 

Yes, the HUD lags compared to the VDI, but I have personally found it to be a great secondary tool to cross-check, particularly when it comes to my power adjustments. I don't know what it is, but even after Heatblur updated the FPM to be more reflective of the real aircraft, I'm still just as able (possibly more so) to recognize changes in my descent rate using it instead of the VSI. I've also noticed that if you keep the FPM in-line with the HUD projector, that more or less equals a centered slip/skid ball.

 

For what it's worth, these are the kind of discussions we like to have in IRL ready rooms. At the end of the day, put the aircraft on deck safely using every tool available to you. It's up to you as an intelligent aviator to decide when to use certain tools and when to disregard others. Personally, I like to turn the HUD off every now and then for the sake of keeping my pure analog gauge skills sharp, but most of the time I keep it on and split my instrument scan roughly 60% on the gauges and 40% on the HUD for a sanity check.

 

Bottom line - Recognize the capabilities and limitations of your avionics. What 1 person (albeit an experienced F-14 aviator) says about how to fly and land an aircraft is a great place to start, but not the end-all-be-all.

[Strikeeagle345]

So is trimming the HUD standard procedure for landings?

 

No, don't trim hud. The pitch ladder is an attitude indicate in relation to the aircraft symbol only. And even then, it is in accurate.

[shagrat]

At the risk of really getting into the weeds - is it standard procedure, or widely-accepted technique? I haven't scoured the F-14's NATOPS as much as the F/A-18's, but I definitely don't remember it saying anywhere that the pilot shall only utilize the analog instruments for landing and disregard the HUD.

 

 

 

Yes, the HUD lags compared to the VDI, but I have personally found it to be a great secondary tool to cross-check, particularly when it comes to my power adjustments. I don't know what it is, but even after Heatblur updated the FPM to be more reflective of the real aircraft, I'm still just as able (possibly more so) to recognize changes in my descent rate using it instead of the VSI. I've also noticed that if you keep the FPM in-line with the HUD projector, that more or less equals a centered slip/skid ball.

 

 

 

For what it's worth, these are the kind of discussions we like to have in IRL ready rooms. At the end of the day, put the aircraft on deck safely using every tool available to you. It's up to you as an intelligent aviator to decide when to use certain tools and when to disregard others. Personally, I like to turn the HUD off every now and then for the sake of keeping my pure analog gauge skills sharp, but most of the time I keep it on and split my instrument scan roughly 60% on the gauges and 40% on the HUD for a sanity check.

 

 

 

Bottom line - Recognize the capabilities and limitations of your avionics. What 1 person (albeit an experienced F-14 aviator) says about how to fly and land an aircraft is a great place to start, but not the end-all-be-all.

The F-14 HUD to my knowledge isn't rated as a "flight instrument". So a pilot who crashes or damages a plane and telling the board of inquiry he didn't use the instruments and just relied on the HUD likely face some inconvenient questions.

The pitch ladder of the F-14 HUD seems to be very unreliable and rarely indicating the horizon precisely, so to judge glideslope by FPM and its position on the pitch ladder is worse than simply using Mk I eyeballs. If you need a trustworthy indication of height, speed, AoA and sinkrate/glideslope, use the classic flight instruments, AoA Indexer and keep the FPM as a backup.

I may go for a car analogy (bear with me). You may judge your speed in a car by watching the antenna bending, or a piece of fabric dangling from the external mirror, but the police will insist you judge your speed by the speedometer. ;)

[Victory205]

At the risk of really getting into the weeds - is it standard procedure, or widely-accepted technique? I haven't scoured the F-14's NATOPS as much as the F/A-18's, but I definitely don't remember it saying anywhere that the pilot shall only utilize the analog instruments for landing and disregard the HUD.

 

Yes, the HUD lags compared to the VDI, but I have personally found it to be a great secondary tool to cross-check, particularly when it comes to my power adjustments. I don't know what it is, but even after Heatblur updated the FPM to be more reflective of the real aircraft, I'm still just as able (possibly more so) to recognize changes in my descent rate using it instead of the VSI. I've also noticed that if you keep the FPM in-line with the HUD projector, that more or less equals a centered slip/skid ball.

 

For what it's worth, these are the kind of discussions we like to have in IRL ready rooms. At the end of the day, put the aircraft on deck safely using every tool available to you. It's up to you as an intelligent aviator to decide when to use certain tools and when to disregard others. Personally, I like to turn the HUD off every now and then for the sake of keeping my pure analog gauge skills sharp, but most of the time I keep it on and split my instrument scan roughly 60% on the gauges and 40% on the HUD for a sanity check.

 

Bottom line - Recognize the capabilities and limitations of your avionics. What 1 person (albeit an experienced F-14 aviator) says about how to fly and land an aircraft is a great place to start, but not the end-all-be-all.

 

When I take the time to comment, you can take it to the bank. No one used the HUD like you are suggesting to land. You couldn't even see the entire display without leaning well forward, and the FPM, VSI and RADALT jittered badly, especially in turbulence.

 

The FPM latéral position has nothing to do with slip skid, unless there is no wind.

 

Ask Oakie what he thought of the HUD for landing. He's easy to find.

 

Let him know that you are a Conehead, he'll understand.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Victory205

[The AMRAAMer]

When I take the time to comment, you can take it to the bank. No one used the HUD like you are suggesting to land. You couldn't even see the entire display without leaning well forward, and the FPM, VSI and RADALT jittered badly, especially in turbulence.

 

sorry whats the VSI? (is it the same as the VDI?)

[Zeroskills]

sorry whats the VSI? (is it the same as the VDI?)

 

Vertical speed indicator, it shows your rate of decent or climb.

[Larkis]

When I take the time to comment, you can take it to the bank. No one used the HUD like you are suggesting to land. You couldn't even see the entire display without leaning well forward, and the FPM, VSI and RADALT jittered badly, especially in turbulence.

 

The FPM latéral position has nothing to do with slip skid, unless there is no wind.

 

Ask Oakie what he thought of the HUD for landing. He's easy to find.

 

Let him know that you are a Conehead, he'll understand.

 

Wow man! I really don't like the way you post.

 

Yeah i know that you fly the real thing and has a lot combat experience on it. And its cool that you has a way whjch fits best to you.

 

But please please please accept that its not the only way to go. Other people will find other ways which work perfect to them depend on hardware and there experiences. For example i use a VR-Heatset. With that is much easier to "feel" speed and acceleration. But i also hat limited Vision and i need to turn my head to see the VSI Gauge.

So the digital VSI on HUD is an very important tool to me on carrier landings.

 

At the end the onky important thing is to get on the deck. And virtual pilots should use every bit if infotmation they want to use to achieve this task.

[shagrat]

Wow man! I really don't like the way you post.

 

 

 

Yeah i know that you fly the real thing and has a lot combat experience on it. And its cool that you has a way whjch fits best to you.

 

 

 

But please please please accept that its not the only way to go. Other people will find other ways which work perfect to them depend on hardware and there experiences. For example i use a VR-Heatset. With that is much easier to "feel" speed and acceleration. But i also hat limited Vision and i need to turn my head to see the VSI Gauge.

 

So the digital VSI on HUD is an very important tool to me on carrier landings.

 

 

 

At the end the onky important thing is to get on the deck. And virtual pilots should use every bit if infotmation they want to use to achieve this task.

He explicitly answered the question for "standard procedure" not what works, or doesn't work in the Sim!

He answered it clear and precise the first time.

If people don't want to hear the answer to their question, because it does not match their expectation, don't ask?

[Larkis]

He explicitly answered the question for "standard procedure" not what works, or doesn't work in the Sim!

He answered it clear and precise the first time.

If people don't want to hear the answer to their question, because it does not match their expectation, don't ask?

 

I dont say that he should not answer. I just say he should (in my opinion, maybe i understand him wrong) stomping on other people with different opinion.

 

Maybe i make a mistaje. Im from germany and i dont know all american phrases. But telling something he is a conehead (after google it and see pictures) didnt seems to be very nice to me. If im wrong on this im sorry.

[shagrat]

I dont say that he should not answer. I just say he should (in my opinion, maybe i understand him wrong) stomping on other people with different opinion.

 

 

 

Maybe i make a mistaje. Im from germany and i dont know all american phrases. But telling something he is a conehead (after google it and see pictures) didnt seems to be very nice to me. If im wrong on this im sorry.

He isn't stomping on "different opinion" real life standard procedure is real life standard procedure, the way the real pilots are required to do it. There is no "other" standard procedure.

That does not mean in the Sim you can't ignore "standard procedures", do things differently, or even experiment. We don't face consequences in the Sim like in reality, but he did answer the question correct. IRL the HUD is not rated as a flight instrument, it is an additional aid, but the aviators used the gauges and indexers/IFLOLS in real life, not the borked FPM and pitch ladder.

I interpret Victory's answer such, that they even deactivated the HUD to "max declutter" their view?