Valve Index Hands On

[Twwhitey]

So my Index arrived yesterday and after spending a few hours on prep (backups of the current rift setup, base station mounting and wire management) I'm finally getting a chance to explore the Index within DCS. The good and the bad right off the top of my head

 

The good:

1. IPD and eye relief adjustments are exactly what I needed (my IPD is in the 70ish range and I've used every mm of adjustment)
   
2. Color richness & FOV.... when combined with being able to adjust it correctly for my eyes is a massive improvement over the Rift S. Cockpit is clear as day even in peripheral vision, way more so than the Rift S. And I don't find the colors quite so washed out as the Rift S. So in a sense I got what I was paying for.
   

 

The bad.... and these are tough to swallow for $1,000

1. Argh, 1 of the 2 Base Stations is LOUD... constant whizzing in the background. I'm even running a fan right now (it's hot in SoCal) and I can hear it over the fan. A massive annoyance. The other is dead silent so I think I'll be filing a ticket w/ Support. I can live with the annoyance now that I've figured out you can get SteamVR to turn them off when not in use but I'm concerned about longevity... whatever bearing is in there doesn't sound good.
   
2. Dead pixels... never expected I'd see this one based on my research but I've got what I think are a cluster 3-5 dead pixels slightly offset of center on the left eye piece... that blows. I'll definitely be filing a ticket with support.
   
3. Random "USB Device Not Recognized" error message every time you boot up the system. Granted it's only been a day but crawling under the desk to unplug/replug the HMD power
   to reset sucks. And I'm using the same USB 3.0 input I was using for the Rift (w/o) so I know it's good.
   

 

So I'm going to stick with it (though I won't be immediately selling my Rift S quite yet) and try to work through the issues. I've been messing with a TON of config settings in DCS, SteamVR and dabbled in the Nvidia settings (based on this article) and I've got "decent" performance. I'm getting 45fps on the Instant Action Free Flight (Caucasus) HOWEVER I'm having (2) issues with the visuals that I'd welcome any insight based on my settings below.

1. When performing any maneuver in the plane (say roll the F/A-18 in this case) and looking at the ground I get double vision on every object... Motion Smoothing is turned off because it creates horrific waviness/warping when you simply pan your head (if you look at the mirror frame on the cockpit its literally bent/warped as you move your head that 100% goes away when you turn off motion smoothing). Literally double vision... I see 2 buildings instead of one.
   
2. Along those lines EVERYTHING outside the cockpit is slightly blurry when in motion... I know the plane is moving... but this isn't high speed passes...trees, buildings, everything have no crispness even at slow speed..and I definitely don't recall it looking like that in the Rift S.
   

 

I ran the Rift S with ASW on (motion smoothing) and I really think the Index needs the same but the warping/bending/waviness in my experience makes it completely unusable. Has anyone out there figured out a way to fix that? Is anyone using the SteamVR motion smoothing? (My research seems to indicate most turn it off).

 

My settings are below and I've spent a bunch of trial & error time (one change at a time) trying to fix the sense of ground object blurriness... any recommendations based on the below I'd welcome the input while I continue to evaluate (while my 30 day return window counts down!)

[Naruto]

So my Index arrived yesterday and after spending a few hours on prep (backups of the current rift setup, base station mounting and wire management) I'm finally getting a chance to explore the Index within DCS. The good and the bad right off the top of my head

 

The good:

1. IPD and eye relief adjustments are exactly what I needed (my IPD is in the 70ish range and I've used every mm of adjustment)
   
2. Color richness & FOV.... when combined with being able to adjust it correctly for my eyes is a massive improvement over the Rift S. Cockpit is clear as day even in peripheral vision, way more so than the Rift S. And I don't find the colors quite so washed out as the Rift S. So in a sense I got what I was paying for.
   

 

The bad.... and these are tough to swallow for $1,000

1. Argh, 1 of the 2 Base Stations is LOUD... constant whizzing in the background. I'm even running a fan right now (it's hot in SoCal) and I can hear it over the fan. A massive annoyance. The other is dead silent so I think I'll be filing a ticket w/ Support. I can live with the annoyance now that I've figured out you can get SteamVR to turn them off when not in use but I'm concerned about longevity... whatever bearing is in there doesn't sound good.
   
2. Dead pixels... never expected I'd see this one based on my research but I've got what I think are a cluster 3-5 dead pixels slightly offset of center on the left eye piece... that blows. I'll definitely be filing a ticket with support.
   
3. Random "USB Device Not Recognized" error message every time you boot up the system. Granted it's only been a day but crawling under the desk to unplug/replug the HMD power
   to reset sucks. And I'm using the same USB 3.0 input I was using for the Rift (w/o) so I know it's good.
   

 

So I'm going to stick with it (though I won't be immediately selling my Rift S quite yet) and try to work through the issues. I've been messing with a TON of config settings in DCS, SteamVR and dabbled in the Nvidia settings (based on this article) and I've got "decent" performance. I'm getting 45fps on the Instant Action Free Flight (Caucasus) HOWEVER I'm having (2) issues with the visuals that I'd welcome any insight based on my settings below.

1. When performing any maneuver in the plane (say roll the F/A-18 in this case) and looking at the ground I get double vision on every object... Motion Smoothing is turned off because it creates horrific waviness/warping when you simply pan your head (if you look at the mirror frame on the cockpit its literally bent/warped as you move your head that 100% goes away when you turn off motion smoothing). Literally double vision... I see 2 buildings instead of one.
   
2. Along those lines EVERYTHING outside the cockpit is slightly blurry when in motion... I know the plane is moving... but this isn't high speed passes...trees, buildings, everything have no crispness even at slow speed..and I definitely don't recall it looking like that in the Rift S.
   

 

I ran the Rift S with ASW on (motion smoothing) and I really think the Index needs the same but the warping/bending/waviness in my experience makes it completely unusable. Has anyone out there figured out a way to fix that? Is anyone using the SteamVR motion smoothing? (My research seems to indicate most turn it off).

 

My settings are below and I've spent a bunch of trial & error time (one change at a time) trying to fix the sense of ground object blurriness... any recommendations based on the below I'd welcome the input while I continue to evaluate (while my 30 day return window counts down!)

 

Your settings are way too high and aggressive. SteamVR recommends 150% for SS with a 2080 TI and you put yours to 200%. I have zero ghosting or judder as long as I use reasonable settings with smoothing checked. Try Steam SS at 60 and DCS PD between 2.0 - 2.5, Vis range to high and check smart smoothing. Put shadows to Flat.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Naruto

[Twwhitey]

Your settings are way too high and aggressive. SteamVR recommends 150% for SS with a 2080 TI and you put yours to 200%. I have zero ghosting or judder as long as I use reasonable settings with smoothing checked. Try Steam SS at 60 and DCS PD between 2.0 - 2.5, Vis range to high and check smart smoothing. Put shadows to Flat.

 

Interesting I'll give it a try but for the record I was running SteamVR at 150% for most of the day... I bumped it up to 200 just to try it with no change in the issues I'm experiencing. Granted I'm very new to Steam/SteamVR so this is all new to me and I've read conflicting recommendations stating it's better to use Steam SS vs. DCS PD... i.e. you get better performance if you increase the SteamVR SS and just leave DCS Pixel Density to the default 1.0 so that's what I was trying.

 

Also I read the following in post #433 regarding equivalent SS to PD comparisons... no idea if it's correct but again I was getting good perf just can't get motion smoothing to not warp everything.

 

150% SS (equivalent to PD 1.225)

200% SS (equivalent to PD 1.414)

300% SS (equivalent to PD 1.732)

 

Also, these were all the same settings I was running on Rift S (though a PD of 1.5 with ASW on).

 

Given it looks like we have very similar setups what type of settings are you running apart from the ones you mentioned? (i.e. what would you consider "reasonable" vs aggressive?)

 

Thanks!

Edited July 28, 2019 by Twwhitey

[Naruto]

Interesting I'll give it a try but for the record I was running SteamVR at 150% for most of the day... I bumped it up to 200 just to try it with no change in the issues I'm experiencing. Granted I'm very new to Steam/SteamVR so this is all new to me and I've read conflicting recommendations stating it's better to use Steam SS vs. DCS PD... i.e. you get better performance if you increase the SteamVR SS and just leave DCS Pixel Density to the default 1.0 so that's what I was trying.

 

Also I read the following in post #433 regarding equivalent SS to PD comparisons... no idea if it's correct but again I was getting good perf just can't get motion smoothing to not warp everything.

 

150% SS (equivalent to PD 1.225)

200% SS (equivalent to PD 1.414)

300% SS (equivalent to PD 1.732)

 

Also, these were all the same settings I was running on Rift S (though a PD of 1.5 with ASW on).

 

Given it looks like we have very similar setups what type of settings are you running apart from the ones you mentioned? (i.e. what would you consider "reasonable" vs aggressive?)

 

Thanks!

 

Run pretty much the same settings except those already mentioned and trees max, grass at zero, full Screen checked, VR IPD at 66 and at 90 HZ. I like to lower SS below 100% and increase DCS PD. It feels like I get better performance that way. I started with Steam SS at 20% and DCS PD at 2.5 and slowly worked my SS up and found 50% to 60% gave me good performance and good visual clarity without the ghosting.

[Twwhitey]

Run pretty much the same settings except those already mentioned and trees max, grass at zero, full Screen checked, VR IPD at 66 and at 90 HZ. I like to lower SS below 100% and increase DCS PD. It feels like I get better performance that way. I started with Steam SS at 20% and DCS PD at 2.5 and slowly worked my SS up and found 50% to 60% gave me good performance and good visual clarity without the ghosting.

 

Right on... I'll give those exact settings a try tomorrow (I've spent too long already trying to sort this out).

 

I will say turning ON the motion smoothing in SteamVR definitely cleaned up the blurriness of the ground objects I mentioned... however that then creates all sorts waviness & wonkiness IN the cockpit when either maneuvering or snapping your head from side to side. When doing a simple barrel roll in the F/A-18 (in that Instant Action free flight I mentioned) and you just stare at the cockpit frame mirror it goes all sorts of crazy with the motion smoothing on... (when you turn it off, it stays locked in place). Or quickly panning from the right to the left side of the cockpit I can see the radar scan line curve. Weird.

 

Like I said, I'll give your settings a try tomorrow... I really like the HMD, I'm just struggling with the motion smoothing and getting that to work cleanly.

 

Thanks again

[RealDCSpilot]

@Twwhitey

 

 

If your CPU is really running stock clock @3.6 i would recommend overclocking the cores marked with "*" in the bios. You'll need at least something like 4.4 GHz to provide what CPU eater DCS wants. There is also this tool in the Steam store, fpsVR it can be of great help testing performance and to see whats going on. Another thing is "curve" overclocking the GPU (OC scanner) with Afterburner or EVGA Precision tool.

 

In your case i would also turn SS down first and disable every AA setting in game and the gpu driver. From there you can start to work your way up to find the best setting.

[Twwhitey]

@Twwhitey

If your CPU is really running stock clock @3.6 i would recommend overclocking the cores marked with "*" in the bios. You'll need at least something like 4.4 GHz to provide what CPU eater DCS wants. There is also this tool in the Steam store, fpsVR it can be of great help testing performance and to see whats going on. Another thing is "curve" overclocking the GPU (OC scanner) with Afterburner or EVGA Precision tool.

 

In your case i would also turn SS down first and disable every AA setting in game and the gpu driver. From there you can start to work your way up to find the best setting.

 

Good point on the CPU - I need to update my signature but yeah I’ve got the CPU OC’d to 4.7GHz at this point and surprisingly stable at this point.

 

I’ll def check out the fpsVR tool - I’ve seen mention of that before but didn’t realize it was a steam thing - very curious about that. Also interested in the GPU OC’ing thing you mentioned, I haven’t considered OC’ing that yet as perf hasn’t been too much of an issue it’s more artifacts/warping

 

Late last night I started down the road you mention. Turning off (setting to default or application controlled) all the AA settings on the Nvidia control panel and setting SS to 100% and PD up from 1.0 through 1.5. All the trial and error seemed to net that

1. I’m getting plenty of perf and visual quality at SS 100% & PD ~1.5 (even at 120Hz)

2. I def need SteamVR motion smoothing enabled vs. disabled. Disabled is a complete no-go

3. The amount of cockpit/static element visual warping I get in VR (def a negative byproduct of SteamVR motion smoothing) increases drastically based on MSAA and PD.. the higher I go the worse it gets. And I need a minimal amount of MSAA to get rid of shimmering...if MSAA is off I get A LOT of shimmering in the distance, runways, power lines etc.

 

Def a work in progress, I spend more time monkeying with settings than actually playing the game LOL

 

Anyhow thanks for the tips

 

I do feel like I’m making progress just need to sort out the warping of static elements when there’s a lot of motion on the screen.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Sorry to hear about your issues - when it works as it should it's great. Just those niggling things and in your case, faults that mean a new headset required.

 

At least you have the Rift S to keep you going if you have to be without the Index for a while.

 

I had that double object problem before, but in the CV1. Can't remember the exact circumstances, wasn't long ago - but it's gone now.

 

Hope you get your issues sorted.

 

btw I upped my refresh rate to 120Hz earlier today, but didn't notice any difference from 90. Also tried 80Hz, but things got a little blurry.

I increased the resolution as well, and am about to see what that looks like.

 

btw - one of my lighthouses makes a loud whining sound, too, audible over my fan as well. I don't mind it so much when in VR - but I have the sensors and headset all plugged into one multi-socket extension and when not in VR I just switch off the power. Sorted.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Brixmis

[Baldrick33]

I do feel like I’m making progress just need to sort out the warping of static elements when there’s a lot of motion on the screen.

Interesting as lots of reports of this same issue on the iRacing forums. Looking around objects like buildings warp. iRacing and DCS had the same issues with double vision impacting the Odyssey+ and other devices. Seems to be a common issue with the game engines?

[Vullcan]

I dont get those issues with motion smoothing turned off, steams smoothing isn't as good as oculus. If you need smoothing turned on its because you've jacked up the graphical options so high your computer is drowning and your FPS isn't sustainable. Like was said, steams smoothing can make obvious bends in the canopy, duplicate buildings.

 

Just need to limit the graphical eye candy: 1.0pd in dcs (never change) start at 100% resolution in steam and slowly increase until you cant maintain 45fps minimum. I only run 125% so I can enable 2x msaa to avoid shimmers that seem to really impact carrier landings.

 

The big benefit of the index or reverb is that the native res is so high you dont *need* to jack up the super sampling super high to have readable text.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Vullcan

[Johnny Dioxin]

I flew a mission earlier after turning the motion smoothing on - was previously off - but didn't notice any side-effects or other issues.

 

I also flew a bit in v1.5.8 and the performance was excellent with Index. The only thing I don't like (with any version of DCS World) is that it boots up Oculus Home. So I have SteamVR (which boots up Steam itself) and Oculus Home, all taking up precious resources.

 

I could have a try at using OpenVR, but DCS still boots up Home - guess I could see if I can just switch it off. I used openVR for other SteamVR based sims and it works well - don't know how it goes with DCS World but hope to find out this evening.

[Speedywrx]

Anyone upgrade from the original Odyssey to the Index? I'd like to hear your take on a few comparisons:

1) Tracking

2) SDE

3) Clarity (plane spotting)

4) Panel (OLED vs LCD) and glare

[Baldrick33]

I dont get those issues with motion smoothing turned off, steams smoothing isn't as good as oculus. If you need smoothing turned on its because you've jacked up the graphical options so high your computer is drowning and your FPS isn't sustainable. Like was said, steams smoothing can make obvious bends in the canopy, duplicate buildings.

 

Just need to limit the graphical eye candy: 1.0pd in dcs (never change) start at 100% resolution in steam and slowly increase until you cant maintain 45fps minimum. I only run 125% so I can enable 2x msaa to avoid shimmers that seem to really impact carrier landings.

 

The big benefit of the index or reverb is that the native res is so high you dont *need* to jack up the super sampling super high to have readable text.

I get a bit confused with motion smoothing and re-projection. 45 fps by definition has re-projection running. So when does motion smoothing get applied? If I look in SteamVR for my Reverb for example I see re-projection on (set in the Mixed Reality settings) and motion smoothing off. I don't even know where I could turn motion smoothing on if I wanted it?

[Twwhitey]

I dont get those issues with motion smoothing turned off, steams smoothing isn't as good as oculus. If you need smoothing turned on its because you've jacked up the graphical options so high your computer is drowning and your FPS isn't sustainable. Like was said, steams smoothing can make obvious bends in the canopy, duplicate buildings.

 

Just need to limit the graphical eye candy: 1.0pd in dcs (never change) start at 100% resolution in steam and slowly increase until you cant maintain 45fps minimum. I only run 125% so I can enable 2x msaa to avoid shimmers that seem to really impact carrier landings.

 

The big benefit of the index or reverb is that the native res is so high you dont *need* to jack up the super sampling super high to have readable text.

 

Well after a few more hours tinkering today the kicker is i'm getting consistent 45+ FPS and still getting blurry double vision objects on the ground w/ motion smoothing off. And I definitely agree that Valve's current iteration of motion smoothing isn't nearly as good as the Oculus one.

 

As for limiting graphical eye candy - everyone keeps recommending that so - I went down to barebones and turned everything down to medium or low, grass off, shadows flat... in fact I reduced everything to the point that the standard "VR" option in the DCS system settings screen is recommending to turn settings UP from my baseline :cry:... anyhow, i reset all the nvidia settings to default, SteamVR motion smoothing off, set 90mHz and 100% SS and 1.0pd in DCS. Result... Poor visual quality in flight (due to the settings) and I still get blurry double objects on the ground when doing a simple roll/turn in the F/A-18.. (tried this at 80 & 120mhz with various permutations of MSAA off/2x, AF off/8x/16x too)... FPS consistently 45 & above ... and I still get double vision with everything. Turning on motion smoothing and the ground objects clear up but then I get the wonky cockpit frame warping and shuddering when maneuvering. Meanwhile at these settings the visuals are worse than the Rift S :/

 

Based on Naruto's recommendation I also tried dropping SS WAY down to 20% and PD up to 1.5, 2 & 2.5 (2-2.5 is absolutely required at that SS setting because even the main screen of DCS is a hot mess at 20% SS) and no improvement; same issues motion smoothing on; same issues motion smoothing off.

 

I've downloaded and started running fpsVR but I honestly need to learn what its telling me - it appears to be telling me my GPU times are capping, maxing, high, approaching meltdown etc. or something along those lines (I see a lot of Orange and Red colors in the chart thing on the left) which doesn't make any sense given the frame rates I'm seeing (45's, 60's, 70's even 90's over the ocean) so I need to learn more about that.

 

I'm convinced I'm not stressing the system too much, I mean I've dropped the settings to REALLY poor visual quality levels (and the settings I was previously running, while elevated weren't completely maxed and worked fine on the Rift S and a month old brand new system) there's just something else I can't figure out or there's something other folks are doing that I'm not.

 

I'm going to update the nvidia drivers as I'm a version behind (might as well at this point) then start looking into overclocking the GPU I guess. Apart from that I'm out of ideas... maybe a replacement HMD will help - I'll be sending this one back anyhow due to the dead pixels so we'll see. It's a bummer because I love the color quality, IPD & eye relief adjustments, I just never thought it'd be so much work to reproduce just the Rift S experience at a minimum.

 

The good news is I have the calming, reassuring, ever present buzz of the one Basestation 2.0 behind keeping me company during all of this...

[Vullcan]

I get a bit confused with motion smoothing and re-projection. 45 fps by definition has re-projection running. So when does motion smoothing get applied? If I look in SteamVR for my Reverb for example I see re-projection on (set in the Mixed Reality settings) and motion smoothing off. I don't even know where I could turn motion smoothing on if I wanted it?

 

I'm not an expert but I think when you have smoothing enabled it costs you a smidge of performance because its constantly generating the fake frames, then a frame gets "applied" if it detects you missed an actual frame.

[Twwhitey]

I get a bit confused with motion smoothing and re-projection. 45 fps by definition has re-projection running. So when does motion smoothing get applied? If I look in SteamVR for my Reverb for example I see re-projection on (set in the Mixed Reality settings) and motion smoothing off. I don't even know where I could turn motion smoothing on if I wanted it?

 

Based articles I've come across I *think* that SteamVR motion smoothing may only be supported on the HTC Vive, Vive Pro and Index but haven't been able to confirm that for sure. That might be why you aren't seeing the option (the checkbox would appear right above the Application Resolution option).

[Naruto]

Based articles I've come across I *think* that SteamVR motion smoothing may only be supported on the HTC Vive, Vive Pro and Index but haven't been able to confirm that for sure. That might be why you aren't seeing the option (the checkbox would appear right above the Application Resolution option).

 

Yes, I feel bad you still get the ghosting even with super low settings. Our system is very similar and I do not get it with my Nvidia and DCS settings so I don't know how else to help you with the Index. I know the feeling though, I had a Pimax 5K that gave me ghosting and juddering with no knows settings to stop it either and that's why it's gone and sold. I am currently on windows 1903 with latest Nvidia driver but windows 10 1809 worked fine too with the Index. One main difference I see is I overclocked the piss out of my PC and GPUs. +130 Core and +800 Mem with power target and voltage to max on my GPUs. Yes I do have two GPUs but DCS only uses one though. My CPU is OC to 5.1 Ghz and is water cooled with a corsair H150i rad and six fans in push pull configuration. Good luck but if you can't get it to work with DCS, hopefully Valve will take it back. One thing I do know is I will still get the ghosting on terrain if smoothing is not checked but I have never seen the cockpit frame warping or shuddering ever in any of the HMDs I had regardless what my setting were.

 

Last thing to try is the VR mod to see if that helps but it breaks DCS IC.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Naruto

[Twwhitey]

Yes, I feel bad you still get the ghosting even with super low settings. Our system is very similar and I do not get it with my Nvidia and DCS settings so I don't know how else to help you with the Index. I know the feeling though, I had a Pimax 5K that gave me ghosting and juddering with no knows settings to stop it either and that's why it's gone and sold. I am currently on windows 1903 with latest Nvidia driver but windows 10 1809 worked fine too with the Index. One main difference I see is I overclocked the piss out of my PC and GPUs. +130 Core and +800 Mem with power target and voltage to max on my GPUs. Yes I do have two GPUs but DCS only uses one though. My CPU is OC to 5.1 Ghz and is water cooled with a corsair H150i rad and six fans in push pull configuration. Good luck but if you can't get it to work with DCS, hopefully Valve will take it back. One thing I do know is I will still get the ghosting on terrain if smoothing is not checked but I have never seen the cockpit frame warping or shuddering ever in any of the HMDs I had regardless what my setting were.

 

Last thing to try is the VR mod to see if that helps but it breaks DCS IC.

 

Good to know and thanks for the additional info (and the empathy). A few more sessions this afternoon - including switching up to a free flight on another map (PG) just to be sure it wasn't map related. I updated the nVidia drivers AND did a repair of DCS and still get the blurry/out of focus/ghosting? issue. (I also checked that I have the fix for the Windows 1903 update "blurry" WMR fix and I do)

 

I did spend a fair amount of time using fpsVR today and I'm very confident it's not a performance or overtaxing of the GPU issue. At 90mhz, 150% SS, motion smoothing off and DCS PD of 1.0 the cockpit is crystal clear with no warping/waviness and according to fpsVR the framerate never once dropped below 45fps... it's really really smooth... however objects outside the cockpit are all blurry... doing a slow speed pass over a road in Dubai and focusing in on a moving car I'm seeing a car with... well... the ghost of a car halfway behind it... same for parked cars, buildings and trees, etc. etc. so I guess "ghosting" is the issue I'm looking to resolve.

 

I'm going to do a wipe and reinstall of DCS (after taking a backup) and if that doesn't help... I'm stumped. I'll be sending the headset back anyhow due to the dead pixels so maybe a replacement headset will help... if not, it'll go back and I'll live with the Rift S...

 

Anyhow in the meantime, if anyone reading this has input on resolving "ghosting" in VR I'm all ears.

[Naruto]

Good to know and thanks for the additional info (and the empathy). A few more sessions this afternoon - including switching up to a free flight on another map (PG) just to be sure it wasn't map related. I updated the nVidia drivers AND did a repair of DCS and still get the blurry/out of focus/ghosting? issue. (I also checked that I have the fix for the Windows 1903 update "blurry" WMR fix and I do)

 

I did spend a fair amount of time using fpsVR today and I'm very confident it's not a performance or overtaxing of the GPU issue. At 90mhz, 150% SS, motion smoothing off and DCS PD of 1.0 the cockpit is crystal clear with no warping/waviness and according to fpsVR the framerate never once dropped below 45fps... it's really really smooth... however objects outside the cockpit are all blurry... doing a slow speed pass over a road in Dubai and focusing in on a moving car I'm seeing a car with... well... the ghost of a car halfway behind it... same for parked cars, buildings and trees, etc. etc. so I guess "ghosting" is the issue I'm looking to resolve.

 

I'm going to do a wipe and reinstall of DCS (after taking a backup) and if that doesn't help... I'm stumped. I'll be sending the headset back anyhow due to the dead pixels so maybe a replacement headset will help... if not, it'll go back and I'll live with the Rift S...

 

Anyhow in the meantime, if anyone reading this has input on resolving "ghosting" in VR I'm all ears.

 

These are my Nvidia Setting:

 

https://ibb.co/QjP8Y0y

https://ibb.co/zbHMF4L

https://ibb.co/k5m92J0

[RealDCSpilot]

@Twwhitey

 

 

What frametimes do you get for GPU and CPU in fpsVR?

Did you disable Intel Turbo Boost Max Tool in Windows? (very important)

Do you use Process Lasso for CPU affinity and recommended settings for DCS.exe? (important)

 

When DCS is running, under SteamVR settings -> Application -> DCS.exe you can force motion smoothing always on, this way it won't even try to run at 90 fps and will not waste frametime to determine if motion smoothing should be on or off. You have to restart DCS to apply that setting.

 

Something is definitely off if you are getting double vision all the time, i'm running DCS at very high visual quality settings and SS at 2880x3200 per eye. Normal frametimes are below 20ms, only over big cities i get frame lock down to 30fps if i look directly on the ground. Motion smoothing artifacts are not completely gone but rare.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Alec Delorean

[Baldrick33]

Based articles I've come across I *think* that SteamVR motion smoothing may only be supported on the HTC Vive, Vive Pro and Index but haven't been able to confirm that for sure. That might be why you aren't seeing the option (the checkbox would appear right above the Application Resolution option).

That makes sense, thanks.

[Shotgun Dexter]

I have both index and rift s... So far the rift s has been WAY easier to set up and have great frame rates with. Not a huge difference in pic quality.....but im still tweaking on it

[Johnny Dioxin]

I'm finding the Index far superior to what I got in the Rift S - and not just in this sim.

 

Frustrating that I can't capture that vertical lines problem on camera, though - just spent a half hour flying around and recording through the lens with both my DSLR and a proper video camera and neither showed it. I've had to send someone else's picture to Valve support.

 

If it came to it, I'd keep the Index and put up with it. It can be a annoying, but it's definitely not game breaking. Didn't notice it at all in Elite, yesterday evening, which is also fantastic in Index.

 

Still on a high from this thing! :)

[Twwhitey]

These are my Nvidia Setting:

 

https://ibb.co/QjP8Y0y

https://ibb.co/zbHMF4L

https://ibb.co/k5m92J0

 

Very interesting to see you are using 8x AA, FXAA on and VR pre-rendered frames = 3 in the nVidia settings. I’ve had those all turned off (or application controlled). If you have a minute let me know what you are using in DCS for MSAA (I’ve needed a min of 2x to combat shimmering in the sim) and Aniostropic Filtering (I’ve tried 0x, 8x, 16x and not even really sure what impact it has pro or con). I know MSAA has a pretty big impact on perf...

 

Regardless thanks - it’s helpful to see others nVidia settings as those are rare and difficult to share!

[Twwhitey]

@Twwhitey

 

 

What frametimes do you get for GPU and CPU in fpsVR?

Did you disable Intel Turbo Boost Max Tool in Windows? (very important)

Do you use Process Lasso for CPU affinity and recommended settings for DCS.exe? (important)

 

When DCS is running, under SteamVR settings -> Application -> DCS.exe you can force motion smoothing always on, this way it won't even try to run at 90 fps and will not waste frametime to determine if motion smoothing should be on or off. You have to restart DCS to apply that setting.

 

Something is definitely off if you are getting double vision all the time, i'm running DCS at very high visual quality settings and SS at 2880x3200 per eye. Normal frametimes are below 20ms, only over big cities i get frame lock down to 30fps if i look directly on the ground. Motion smoothing artifacts are not completely gone but rare.

 

Good stuff Alec

 

Frametimes: I was seeing ~18ms Frame times on the GPU and super stable and no red spikes or anything on the chart. I don’t recall the CPU frametimes (I did save the session logs but can check) however the moving chart below the value on that side was all green so I didn’t get the sense it should be a concern (the GPU side seemed more elevated and would fluctuate rarely whereas the CPU side never budged from green). I recall it stating the Motion Reprojection was in effect like 45% (motion smoothing off) and like 1-2 dropped frames over an 8-10 minute flight (which I attributed to right after the sim loaded from the main menu, the number never increased during flight)

 

Intel Turbo Boost: so I came across talk of that shortly after I built the system poked around bios a bit (apparently the only place to disable is in BIOS?) and wasn’t 100% sure I found it in BIOS. I think it’s still active so I’ll revisit.

EDIT: I, for the life of me, can't find where to disable this or any evidence in Windows 10 that this is present (no Intel Turbo Boost Max services running and I can't find System Configuration > BIOS/Platform Configuration (RBSU) > Performance Options > Intel ® Turbo Boost Technology option in BIOS) so I'm thinking this is a non-issue.

 

Process Lasso: saw a lot about this early on as well and dabbled in setting core priorities a bit but haven’t done a deep dive on this as I’ve never got the sense (especially in simple free flights w no huge battles etc going on) that I’m CPU bottlenecked. I suppose this is worth another look tho too.

 

It’s worth noting that as with the above 2 items I came across a lot of talk about Win10 Game Mode so that’s def turned off too...

 

So last night I reverted to my Rift S Windows system backup and plugged the Rift S back in and fired up the same free flight mission I’d been using. Much to my surprise when turning off ASW 2.0 via the Oculus Tray Tool I see THE SAME EXACT ISSUE on the Rift S. Double vision and ghosting on ground objects. Meanwhile frame rates never dropped below 40 (with ASW off it just fluctuates up more)

 

The kicker is turning ASW back on fixes it without the warping cockpit issues I see when using the Valve Motion Smoothing. Hmmmmmmm

Edited July 29, 2019 by Twwhitey