Take off and landing limits.

[Bedouin]

Hey,

Since Google couldn't help with the answer i am more than sure i can have it here...

 

 

What are the distances needed for takeoff and landing the F-16, there is a small airfield on PG map or if i want to use it on the Normandy map...

 

 

Thanks in advance

[Mystic_J]

8000ft for landing

4000ft-5000ft for T/O (heavy)

[Bedouin]

Thanks, Mystic J

[bbrz]

8000ft for landing

That's a lot and only valid at (ISA and S.L.) the 'theoretical' 52000lbs tire limit weight and well above the brake energy limit weight of 48000lbs.

 

At a more 'conventional' landing weight of 30000lbs the landing distance is less than half this value; 3600ft.

Edited July 30, 2019 by bbrz

[Mystic_J]

That's a lot and only valid at (ISA and S.L.) the 'theoretical' 52000lbs tire limit weight and well above the brake energy limit weight of 48000lbs.

 

At a more 'conventional' landing weight of 30000lbs the landing distance is less than half this value; 3600ft.

 

Normally, you need around 4000ft landing distance. But you always assume a worst case scenario (i.e. loosing brakes). So, an F16 pilot will land only at airfields which have minimum 8000ft runway. In emergencies this figure drops to 6000ft.

[bbrz]

The OPs question was about the distance needed, not what is operationally desirable.

Following your landing example, your T/O numbers need to be way higher as well for the same reason ;)

At low weight the F-16C needs only 2700ft for landing.

Edited July 30, 2019 by bbrz

[Mystic_J]

Well, personally I wouldn't land the viper on this small field in PG map, if we want to simulate RL.

[Deano87]

There is however a difference between simulating conservative peacetime operations and wartime where a lot of those operational restrictions magically disappear if there is a strategic advantage in operating from a certain place.

[bbrz]

+1

[Mystic_J]

There is however a difference between simulating conservative peacetime operations and wartime where a lot of those operational restrictions magically disappear if there is a strategic advantage in operating from a certain place.

 

There are more restrictions in wartime than in peacetime but this is another story. Anyway.

[bbrz]

There are more restrictions in wartime than in peacetime but this is another story. Anyway.

So you would rather pass overhead an airfield which has a runway that is sufficient for landing with your e.g. fuel leaking F-16?

Instead you would accept a flame out on the way to an airfield with enough operational reserves?

 

You do know what the Prussian General Helmuth von Moltke the Elder said a long time ago ;)

Edited July 30, 2019 by bbrz

[mvsgas]

What are the distances needed for takeoff and landing the F-16, there is a small airfield on PG map or if i want to use it on the Normandy map...

 

I suggest waiting for the module to come out see if ED provide the info. In RL it can be complicated. You need several manuals, a lot of parameters and do some math crunching. IIRC, pilot have a computer that does a lot of this for them (at least back in 1998 )

 

Also, in my opinion would not be beneficial to find some of this manuals online since different blocks will have different weight, different engine and subversion of engines. Different landing gear and brakes with different limitations, etc.

 

So, again, not benefit to learn this without the mod being out. It would just create more confusion. When the module is out, worst case scenario, you can just try it see if you can take of from location Y at X weight and Z environmental conditions.

Edited July 30, 2019 by mvsgas
spelling

[TeamMaximus]

So you would rather pass overhead an airfield which has a runway that is sufficient for landing with your e.g. fuel leaking F-16?

Instead you would accept a flame out on the way to an airfield with enough operational reserves?

 

You do know what the Prussian General Helmuth von Moltke the Elder said a long time ago ;)

 

 

"Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus." - Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke

 

 

 

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[bbrz]

I suggest waiting for the module to come out see if ED provide the info. In RL it can be complicated. You need several manuals, a lot of parameters and do some math crunching. IIRC, pilot have a computer that does a lot of this for them (at least back in 1998 )

Also, in my opinion would not be beneficial to find some of this manuals online since different blocks will have different weight, different engine and subversion of engines. Different landing gear and brakes with different limitations, etc.

What manuals besides the -1 performance part do you need for take off and landing calculations? It's not exactly rocket sience, especially in a basic single engined jet like the F-16.

 

The landing distance difference between a Block 50 and 52 F-16 e.g. is marginal so you have at least approximate numbers to work with.

Except of course if ED gets the anti skid brakes simulation as wrong as on the F/A-18....then you need a lot more runway ;)

[mvsgas]

What manuals besides the -1 performance part do you need for take off and landing calculations?

For example: Block 40/42

You need the 1F-16CG-1, 1F-16CG-1-1 and 1F-16CG-1-2 and local supplements. Runway information (pressure altitude, temperature, wind speed, wind direction, length, slope, etc.), Ground Vehicle Friction Reading. Then there is the weights and COG.

 

This also change by year. For example late 90 block 40/42 had a different braking system and different brakes. ( some of those numbers change while we where using those brake and there where local supplements at the time IIRC in Luke AFB, late 90 on specific squadrons)

 

Anyway, I still think why not just wait for the module to come out.

[bbrz]

...Runway information (pressure altitude, temperature, wind speed, wind direction...)

Since you get temp, QNH and wind from the ATIS/Tower, what happens if any of these values changes after e.g. you started taxiing?

[mvsgas]

Depends of the changes. Seen flight cancel before. Specially in places like Luke AFB where there where so many student pilots or Kunsan AB where conditions can change drastically.

[=Panther=]

Since you get temp, QNH and wind from the ATIS/Tower, what happens if any of these values changes after e.g. you started taxiing?

 

Watched a mass launch LFE at Nellis all taxi back due to drastic weather conditions deteriorate rapidly. Some had already gotten airborne, who had to divert else where.

[WildWeasel303]

Depends of the changes. Seen flight cancel before. Specially in places like Luke AFB where there where so many student pilots or Kunsan AB where conditions can change drastically.

 

We had one catch the wire at Kunsan during an exercise. Visibility dropped below 200ft on final. Needless to say our pilot needed some new underwear. Keep in mind also this was a Block 30, smaller gear/brakes/wheels compared to it's younger siblings.

[smire666]

"Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus." - Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke

 

 

 

-

Es sieht fasst als eine Zitation von Murphy Gesetz:)

It seems like the Murphy´s law now after years:)

[Mad-Mex]

Since you get temp, QNH and wind from the ATIS/Tower, what happens if any of these values changes after e.g. you started taxiing?

 

There is a S.O.F (Supervisor of Flying) in the control tower, he/she is usually a senior pilot. The SOF monitors the weather reports and makes the call as to the flying.

As it was already stated, in places like Kunsan AB (I was stationed there for 1 year as an Air Traffic Controller) the weather can changed dramatically in a matter of minutes, the SOF is aware of the qualifications of the pilots who are flying and will make the decision to have them continue to fly/taxi, RTB or even divert.

I don't know about Luke, but I am sure they also have a SOF but I don't know what their responsibilities are besides the usual like reading the BOLD FACE items to a pilot who is having an emergency.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Mad-Mex

[VampireNZ]

I don't know about Luke, but I am sure they also have a SOF but I don't know what their responsibilities are besides the usual like reading the BOLD FACE items to a pilot who is having an emergency.

 

Interesting - as ex-aircrew it was our responsibility to memorise all BOLD FACE checklists.

Can't write down every one of them perfectly correctly word for word every year at CAT-check re-currency time = no flying for you...and it wasn't just a few checklists either!

[bbrz]

I can only image that a SOF reads the bold face items as a backup, just in case the pilot did miss any item.

Not knowing any of the memory/recall items to 100% was and is an absolute no go, in military and airline ops.

 

Flying in the military back in my time was way easier and straight forward. Reading about all the procedures etc. reminds me much more of modern airline ops!

Edited August 3, 2019 by bbrz

[Mad-Mex]

Interesting - as ex-aircrew it was our responsibility to memorise all BOLD FACE checklists.

Can't write down every one of them perfectly correctly word for word every year at CAT-check re-currency time = no flying for you...and it wasn't just a few checklists either!

 

SOF was/is mostly there as back up for the bold face, and as former T-38, F-4D and F-16a crew chief, think I still remember T-38 emergency engine shut down procedures,,, 9 years maintenance 11 ATC,,,

 

One of many IFE’s I worked ( In Flight Emergencies ) pilot checked in and said he had a problem, he would get back with me that he was was calling the SOF, after 20-30 seconds, he comes back and said “I guess I have an emergency, will take straight in full stop”, as calm as one would order a burger at drive thru,,,, can’t remember the emergency, think generator out,,,

[Sierra99]

8000ft for landing

4000ft-5000ft for T/O (heavy)

 

I'm curious what these numbers are based on...